Nice wortox could feel more guilt

[marshyds]

So nice wortox is neutral to mobs now, great perk that lets me force swine to chop trees!

BUT... its just removing a downside...

What if he lost sanity for killing creatures? Or he could lose 4 sanity/min when he has more than 15 souls? What if his naughtiness cap was reduced to ~20 before krampii show up?

Spawned krampii could immediately start attacking wortox instead of collecting items (which lets you fight them individually).

note: ive only played wortox solo so my view on food and sanity management might be slightly skewed.

[Steorra]

He should. It should be similar like wormwood when destroying plants.

[Master_NiX]

1 minute ago, marshyds said:

So nice wortox is neutral to mobs now, great perk that lets me force swine to chop trees!

BUT... its just removing a downside...

What if he lost sanity for killing creatures? Or he could lose 2 sanity/min when he has more than 15 souls? What if his naughtiness cap was reduced to ~20 before krampii show up?

I feel like losing sanity on kills isnt necessary since he already loses more sanity when eating souls now. but Lower Naughtiness cap is something I could get behind, maybe 35, rather than 20. It's a bit too easy to breach 20 each day, and would actually be a benefit rather than inconvenience, since you can farm sacks.

[BalkanCockroach]

He gets more sanity loss from gobbling souls already. Naughtiness idea i like it but it's also an upside lol.

[marshyds]

Just now, Master_NiX said:

feel like losing sanity on kills isnt necessary since he already loses more sanity when eating souls now. but Lower Naughtiness cap is something I could get behind, maybe 35, rather than 20. It's a bit too easy to breach 20 each day, and would actually be a benefit rather than inconvenience, since you can farm sacks.

I feel like krampii showing up every day would be a decent challenge for inexperienced wortox players, as the 'quickdraw' kiting pattern is something even i struggle with at ~900 hours.

1 minute ago, BalkanCockroach said:

He gets more sanity loss from gobbling souls already. Naughtiness idea i like it but it's also an upside lol.

release souls for sanity, kill monsters without a sanity loss, drop more souls.

granted, its probably inefficient, but thats what i tend to do

[Master_NiX]

2 minutes ago, marshyds said:

release souls for sanity, kill monsters without a sanity loss, drop more souls.

Now, if THIS was a thing, then yes, I'd agree on killing draining souls. But that's also a huge upside, since Sanity control is one of the issues inexperienced Wortox players have due to 50% Value from all food types and negative sanity drain from soul consumption. Let's not forget that "nice" tree has increased sanity drain from eating souls as well.

[marshyds]

Just now, Master_NiX said:

Now, if THIS was a thing, then yes, I'd agree on killing draining souls. But that's also a huge upside, since Sanity control is one of the issues inexperienced Wortox players have due to 50% Value from all food types and negative sanity drain from soul consumption. Let's not forget that "nice" tree has increased sanity drain from eating souls as well.

i guess, i tend to play solo so i dont struggle with food THAT much due to having nobody to share it with. from a solo perspective its rather easy to manage sanity.

[Master_NiX]

1 minute ago, marshyds said:

i guess, i tend to play solo so i dont struggle with food THAT much due to having nobody to share it with. from a solo perspective its rather easy to manage sanity.

oh yea, it is easy when alone. Just kill whenever you want and etc. In multiplayer with 1 friend that needed babysitting I was on a soul duty, while cooking everything for him. Also building pig houses while they would try to kill me... not easy, as one may say. Which is why I dont mind increased sanity drain ingame, rather than sanity drain irl

[Y0sH]

13 minutes ago, marshyds said:

So nice wortox is neutral to mobs now, great perk that lets me force swine to chop trees!

BUT... its just removing a downside...

What if he lost sanity for killing creatures? Or he could lose 4 sanity/min when he has more than 15 souls? What if his naughtiness cap was reduced to ~20 before krampii show up?

The naughtiness cap being lowered would be nice and yeah I guess it can be looked as an upside in Krampus Sack farming but I think increased damage taken from Krampus and Klaus with the nice tree could be a nice balance.

[Master_NiX]

Just now, Y0sH said:

increased damage taken from Krampus and Klaus with the nice tree

Not exactly necessary, but could be. Also canon to the source material, since Wortox DID go against Krampus. It's like he would try to not become like them, and they would assume him as traitor.

[marshyds]

2 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

think increased damage taken from Krampus and Klaus with the nice tree could be a nice balance.

since krampii tend to just steal instead of going for the throat immediately, they should immediately attack wortox to make it harder to fight them in a horde.

[Y0sH]

3 minutes ago, Master_NiX said:

Not exactly necessary, but could be. Also canon to the source material, since Wortox DID go against Krampus. It's like he would try to not become like them, and they would assume him as traitor.

I only say increase damage because lowering the naughtiness cap just screams Krampus Sack farm to me and while that will probably happen regardless, The damage increase at least makes it a little more dangerous for Wortox to pull off.

4 minutes ago, marshyds said:

since krampii tend to just steal instead of going for the throat immediately, they should immediately attack wortox to make it harder to fight them in a horde.

That Krampus stage of the Klaus fight would be insane with a lot of players lol

[Master_NiX]

Just now, marshyds said:

since krampii tend to just steal instead of going for the throat immediately, they should immediately attack wortox to make it harder to fight them in a horde.

I can already imagine them appearing and going like this:

[viblym]

Soul eating with niceness is much more punishing sanity wise than you'd might think, and personally I think the naughty inclination is a bit more unbalanced, a little more sanity at the cost of a material you're already detracting from to feed yourself is a lot worse than not loosing or gaining the sanity to do the same thing. The nice inclination basically already requires you to spend more souls to keep up with it, while Naughtyness essentially removes the primary downside to souls as a food source. Using nice inclination with friends so far has a immense soul cost and I use things like twintails very conservatively; in addition to my several methods of soul farming, I still spend a load of souls, having to counteract soul sanity drain from consumption by releasing more souls is a huge soul sink that puts me out of house and soul. You don't need to manage your sanity as naughty inclination Wortox and you actually do it less than the average character would, thanks to his halved sanity aura drain from things like monsters.

Also not getting attacked by things like Pigmen, Catcoons, and Bunnymen is the average player standard. There were already ways to get around his monster downside, so I don't see it as anything particularly special. Note that I might be biased because I do not engage in many follower mechanics nor do I think any character's "strength" should be calculated in how strong they are when utilizing followers, as your return on using them is practically infinite. Strength in numbers after all. I don't think not being auto aggro'd by typically neutral mobs is going to outweigh the upsides of naughty affinity.

TL;DR: The current downside of Nice inclination is already detrimental enough on its own, while the downsides of Naughty inclination are easily overlooked by the fact that sanity regeneration granted by releasing souls was added to counteract loosing sanity from eating them in the first place, meaning it's just removing a redundant feature.

[salty_cookie]

2 minutes ago, viblym said:

Soul eating with niceness is much more punishing sanity wise than you'd might think

True 

[Tarnishedmax]

14 minutes ago, viblym said:

TL;DR: The current downside of Nice inclination is already detrimental enough on its own, while the downsides of Naughty inclination are easily overlooked by the fact that sanity regeneration granted by releasing souls was added to counteract loosing sanity from eating them in the first place, meaning it's just removing a redundant feature.

Its one of those things that sound nice from a lore perspective but aplying them into gameplay translates horribly

[Y0sH]

12 minutes ago, viblym said:

a huge soul sink that puts me out of house and soul. 

I chuckled at this saying lol but you do make a good point of his sanity hit is definitely noticeable and makes you think twice about even eating them. Idk maybe the neutral thing won't be so bad as a naughty tree supporter myself I'll have to see once this update drops.

[Dingle]

If they added big downsides to the alignments, I think I'd just avoid getting them. You already have to go a bit out of your way to grab them, it limits your perk builds to go +3.