Does anyone think Wendy's skill tree needs a complete overhaul？

[usagiP]

7 hours ago, Vinja said:

7小时前，Vinja 说:

In my opinion her skill tree is objectively worse than other ones like willow, wigfrid, woodie, wurt, etc. Much less new content to engage with and let's be honest, not nearly as strong or flashy either.

I just thought the same thing!
Not interesting enough, that's right... I even feel like she's become more boring than before
I want a more interesting mechanism to help Wendy defeat the bosses
Regarding the shroud, I think it just makes Wendy have more health and be harder to kill, rather than making it more interesting.

7 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

7小时前 Mike23Ua 说:

You bring up a quite amazing point actually… Woodie was Given in his skill tree the ability to craft cheap walking canes out of next to nothing as a form of speed boost, this was AFTER Wendy had already gotten her refresh and the Vigor Mortis potions could only be used to speed up the movement of Abigail or a Dead players ghost after they haunt it laying on the ground.

That's right! If Wendy could find a way to let other players speed up too, I think it would be more fun. Although Woody already has that ability, we can tweak it a bit to make it slightly different from Woody's.

[Dreamers250]

There's no need to give Wendy the bottom because of the Valkyrie's skill tree

[leo920101]

Don't think so.

[Peasant]

6 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I feel like her Skilltree is better than Wurt's and Woodies.

sorry but i cant stop laughing reading this

[Fufuji]

10 hours ago, arubaro said:

I dont think klei should listen to a bunch of inmature sectarian kids backfiring them because wendy didnt became as op as maxwell. That would only make them repeat the same actions evetytime they dont like something 

Every player's opinion matters. Do not make the forum a place where a bunch of people impose tyranny on another bunch of people.

It is Klei who has the ability and responsibility to figure out what players truly want.

[chuyuewangxi]

Does Wendy want her hurt to be transferred to Abigail? Does it fit the setting? The level of humor of the shroud is like wormwood automatically destroying agricultural plants, woodie's location the ax doubles the use efficiency of other characters, and wigfrid's farming will return to san.

[Lee lol]

As a Wendy player with over 2000 hours of gaming experience, I am very disappointed with this skill tree update and cannot see any outstanding aspects, which makes me doubt the designer's understanding of the game and the connotation of Wendy's character.
Before the skill tree was updated, Wendy may have been very strong, but now I can't see anything special about her. Her AOE skills can be easily replaced by many characters. People who are still obsessed with playing Wendy's games are either beginners, and they will choose to play other games after the novice period because Wendy's games are very weak in the later stages; Either Wendy is someone who plays particularly well and can ride a cow to completely defeat the boss, but there don't seem to be many of them. Now Wendy must tame cows to live comfortably, which seems to have become a label and has raised Wendy's gaming threshold. In short, Wendy after the month is a character with a relatively high lower limit but a relatively low upper limit, almost useless except for beauty. So I don't understand the designer saying 'Wendy is very strong', where exactly is she strong?
Wendy's most valuable asset now may be Abigail's damage enhancement mechanism, but it is based on Abigail's ability to survive well. However, too many bosses use extremely high AOE damage from before to after the month, making it very fragile and difficult for her sister to survive. Wendy is not strong now. The solution is to let Wendy bear the injury and protect her sister (which cannot completely solve the problem).
And the designer completely went against this foundation, choosing to let Abigail bear the damage, not only against Wendy's wishes, but also making the game more difficult. Moon Sister's single damage is very strong, but it means sacrificing Sister's AOE damage and 1.4 multiplier damage, which seems not worth it, and the conversion is also inconvenient. The only advantage of Moon Sister lies in her ability to deal with certain specific bosses, such as Dragonfly, Nightmare Pig Man, etc., but these bosses are already very easy to fight. As for Wendy's difficult to fight bosses, Armored Bears, Celestial Bodies, etc. (difficult to fight without riding a cow), as well as Shadow Monsters' weaknesses that are difficult to fight, there has been no improvement at all. It's also inconvenient for Shadow Sister to have to murder small animals in order to unleash her skills, and stacking small animals that can't be killed in groups is also very foolish. The remaining skills, such as small scares and longer potions, seem to have no drawbacks and are relatively mediocre, but don't forget that these skills are based on the usefulness of potions, and the skill tree doesn't have much innovation in potions, which is also disappointing. Tomb skills may be useful for building homes, just like the cow taming skills of Valkyrie (I still wonder why giving Valkyrie cow taming skills instead of Wendy) is optional.
What is the designer's positioning for Wendy's game? A melancholic literary girl? The best role for beginners? Team mascot? Before the Moon version update, Wendy may have been one of the strongest characters, but she is no longer one. If the designer positions Wendy as a novice character, considering that having her sister bear injuries as a novice would have a higher chance of survival, although this goes against Wendy's own wishes, the shroud skill seems to make sense. But what should veteran players do? I hope the designer can consider the opinions of veteran players. They hope Wendy can maintain a certain level of strength, at least stronger than before, rather than weaker. A good skill tree should at least achieve the following two points, either stronger or more interesting, but unfortunately Wendy's skill tree does not meet any of the above criteria.

 

 

 

 

[Peasant]

4 hours ago, arubaro said:

Your complains about wanda are funny to read when you are asking to buff wendy which her power comes for free instead of needing to farm ruins materials and husks

But there is a huge difference between the benefits and risks they possess. Wanda needs to go to at least the archive to get her alarm clock, and needs to keep herself at old age in order to maximum her damage, thus also demanding her be flawless in battle. Generally she's a high risk yet also high payback character requiring skillful gameplay, with 2.0 attack range and 142.8 dph, with a bunch of other clocks making her expertise not only battle, but also almost everything.

Wendy on the other hand, the benefit alone would appear to be "free", but it actually costed her 0.25 attack rate, so it's not free. Besides this the benefit abigail can provide is much weaker, and more restricted than Wanda. Wanda only need to make sure herself stay alive, while Wendy need to keep herself And her dead sister alive at the same time, which would be a much harder quest considering giants deal double damage to abigail than to characters and you cant control where abigail goes. Once abigail is dead...dead again, Wendy loses almost all her benefits while Wanda need just switch her watch, stuff some nightmare fuel into her clock and keep fighting. Being more restricted, thus requiring more skillful gameplay, the benefit abigail can provide is limited, by simply making wendy's attack rate increase to 0.75×1.1×1.4=1.155, which though indeed is more that 1.0, is obviously less than Wigfrid, and lesser than Wanda in old age, and even lesser considering Wendy dont have a fancy 2.0 range 81.6 damage weapon that can be repaired with nightmare fuel.

However, brilliant Wendy players has come out the idea that using beefalo instead of weapons, and that indeed worked. Battle beefalo with war saddle can produce 66 damage that won't be restricted by Wendy's low attack rate, and can still gain abigail's benefits, making wendy's theoretical dph reaching 101.64, however still lower than wanda and impossible to reach in every hit you do in a battle. Though, the beefalo provides wendy with greater survival chances and ease her pressure in keeping both herself and her dead sister alive, which lowers Wendy's risk. Generally, Wendy is a character that has certain risk and certain payback, both lower than Wanda, but still requires skillful gameplay.

But these are all past tense now. After the rift update both Wendy and Wanda had faced with a dilemma. The planar bosses possessing planar entity making both of the characters dealing less damage than before, thus canceling one of their advantages, while both of their risks are increased, with planar damage penetrating normal armor killing old Wanda, knockbacks throwing Wendy out of her cozy little saddle. Though Wendy's position is a little harder that Wanda, for despite Wanda can no longer afford to use the old-age-alarmclock method, she still got other fancy watches that maintain her ability to fight more comfortabliy, or aid her companions, while Wendy would be completely use-helpless after any planar giant had killed abigail and her cattle with several blows, making her a Wes with more hp. 

And that's what people expect skilltrees do——to solve the dilemma a character faces, to make character adapt to the new planar version better, and a few new things if possible. So this is the reason why people arent satisfied with Wendy's skilltree, it solved noting at all, and the benefits it provides is just making Wendy deals better with things she can easily dealt with even without the skilltree.

11 hours ago, arubaro said:

I dont think klei should listen to a bunch of inmature sectarian kids backfiring them because wendy didnt became as op as maxwell. That would only make them repeat the same actions evetytime they dont like something 

And by the way, it's normal that not all would be satisfied with one same thing, but simply taking people who aren't satisfied as "a bunch of inmature sectarian kids" won't make you look mature, only makes you looks like an arrogant disrespecting moron.

[WenericMember]

26 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

As a Wendy player with over 2000 hours of gaming experience, I am very disappointed with this skill tree update and cannot see any outstanding aspects, which makes me doubt the designer's understanding of the game and the connotation of Wendy's character.
Before the skill tree was updated, Wendy may have been very strong, but now I can't see anything special about her. Her AOE skills can be easily replaced by many characters. People who are still obsessed with playing Wendy's games are either beginners, and they will choose to play other games after the novice period because Wendy's games are very weak in the later stages; Either Wendy is someone who plays particularly well and can ride a cow to completely defeat the boss, but there don't seem to be many of them. Now Wendy must tame cows to live comfortably, which seems to have become a label and has raised Wendy's gaming threshold. In short, Wendy after the month is a character with a relatively high lower limit but a relatively low upper limit, almost useless except for beauty. So I don't understand the designer saying 'Wendy is very strong', where exactly is she strong?
Wendy's most valuable asset now may be Abigail's damage enhancement mechanism, but it is based on Abigail's ability to survive well. However, too many bosses use extremely high AOE damage from before to after the month, making it very fragile and difficult for her sister to survive. Wendy is not strong now. The solution is to let Wendy bear the injury and protect her sister (which cannot completely solve the problem).
And the designer completely went against this foundation, choosing to let Abigail bear the damage, not only against Wendy's wishes, but also making the game more difficult. Moon Sister's single damage is very strong, but it means sacrificing Sister's AOE damage and 1.4 multiplier damage, which seems not worth it, and the conversion is also inconvenient. The only advantage of Moon Sister lies in her ability to deal with certain specific bosses, such as Dragonfly, Nightmare Pig Man, etc., but these bosses are already very easy to fight. As for Wendy's difficult to fight bosses, Armored Bears, Celestial Bodies, etc. (difficult to fight without riding a cow), as well as Shadow Monsters' weaknesses that are difficult to fight, there has been no improvement at all. It's also inconvenient for Shadow Sister to have to murder small animals in order to unleash her skills, and stacking small animals that can't be killed in groups is also very foolish. The remaining skills, such as small scares and longer potions, seem to have no drawbacks and are relatively mediocre, but don't forget that these skills are based on the usefulness of potions, and the skill tree doesn't have much innovation in potions, which is also disappointing. Tomb skills may be useful for building homes, just like the cow taming skills of Valkyrie (I still wonder why giving Valkyrie cow taming skills instead of Wendy) is optional.
What is the designer's positioning for Wendy's game? A melancholic literary girl? The best role for beginners? Team mascot? Before the Moon version update, Wendy may have been one of the strongest characters, but she is no longer one. If the designer positions Wendy as a novice character, considering that having her sister bear injuries as a novice would have a higher chance of survival, although this goes against Wendy's own wishes, the shroud skill seems to make sense. But what should veteran players do? I hope the designer can consider the opinions of veteran players. They hope Wendy can maintain a certain level of strength, at least stronger than before, rather than weaker. A good skill tree should at least achieve the following two points, either stronger or more interesting, but unfortunately Wendy's skill tree does not meet any of the above criteria.

 

 

 

 

They are changing the shroud so it gives Abigail armour instead of linking HP bars, in addition to a variety of other changes such as further buffs, a potion container & haunt.

If you feel like more changes could be used, they have shown that they are listening.

[VanDeBerg]

I wish the interaction between Wendy and Abigail could be more fun and useful. Don't just use Abigail as a tool to take the hits. That's not fun at all.

[ZeRoboButler]

y'know... this post seemed like it was going to be suggesting changes to the tree, but only like... 3-4 post here are actually on topic it seems...

[lio516]

我认为设计这个技能树的人从来没有玩过 Wendy，甚至让我觉得他不懂这个角色和性格

[1007954611]

花瓣净化术
无论变普通花还是恶魔花都没有什么实际意义，不如把技能修改为恶魔花瓣变成蝴蝶或者月蛾之类与花朵相关的小动物，既有实际意义又可爱。
裹尸布
取消减速和转移伤害的设定，彻底重置，温蒂穿戴裹尸布后每次主动攻击后为阿比盖尔提供一定时间段的无敌护盾，通过温蒂的攻击频率帮助阿比盖尔回避伤害，强调姐妹协同操作。
迁坟
这个技能挺有意思的，不过作用太少了，加点东西吧，比如被温蒂装饰过的墓碑夜晚发出荧光（玩家靠近后熄灭）、夏天能够提供一个较小的降温效果。

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, 1007954611 said:

花瓣净化术
无论变普通花还是恶魔花都没有什么实际意义，不如把技能修改为恶魔花瓣变成蝴蝶或者月蛾之类与花朵相关的小动物，既有实际意义又可爱。
裹尸布
取消减速和转移伤害的设定，彻底重置，温蒂穿戴裹尸布后每次主动攻击后为阿比盖尔提供一定时间段的无敌护盾，通过温蒂的攻击频率帮助阿比盖尔回避伤害，强调姐妹协同操作。
迁坟
这个技能挺有意思的，不过作用太少了，加点东西吧，比如被温蒂装饰过的墓碑夜晚发出荧光（玩家靠近后熄灭）、夏天能够提供一个较小的降温效果。

These are some really cool Ideas! I like them a lot!

For those who don't want to translate:

• Petal Purification can summon small animals like butterflies and moon moths
• Flower Shroud provides a buff to Abigail based on Wendy's attacks
• Beautified graves produce light and coolness during summer.

I think they might be hesitant to do the small creatures change because that's more wormwood's area, but I think the other two should be added

Tying a skill to Wendy's attack frequency is a cool concept, like a reverse Vex effect, but I do worry it could result in facetanking, which they're trying to avoid. It would require some fine tuning but would be a cool give and take to their current dynamic.

The QOL to beautified graves could be a great buff to graves by Wendy, no notes.

[loliai]

Wendy can move graves and use graves to upgrade the sisters' urn to a church or a witch's hut. The church can enable Little Scare to become a Buddha and gain the ability to obtain Mourning Glory and make holy water. Holy water can cause damage to evil creatures. The church also has the ability to purify demon petals and cause flowers to grow around demon petals. The witch's hut can upgrade Little Scare to a ghost and have the ability to make mixed potions. After mixing, the potion has a shelf life, and the mixed effect is only two-thirds of the original. The witch's hut can also contaminate flowers and cause demon flowers to grow around the petals.
Then potions can be equipped and thrown, similar to a water bag, taking effect on friendly forces within the range. The potion bag can be equipped in the weapon slot and throw the first potion. This can increase Wendy's team function and enhance the usage rate of potions and the effect of the sisters' urn.
After Wendy joins the moon camp, Abigail can be resurrected as a heroic spirit with only the weapon slot and armor slot during the full moon. Remove Abigail's previous area attack, attack debuff, and protection upon being hit. Add a new command spell instruction, and these abilities can be regained through this instruction. When Wendy joins the shadow camp, Abigail can be upgraded to Shadow Abigail during an eclipse. Abigail can be immune to combat damage. However, the combat damage Wendy suffers is borne by Abigail. Shadow Abigail cannot attack actively and only assists in attacking when Wendy attacks. Increase Abigail's output by sacrificing creatures.

[Mr Giggio]

The main issue is the fact it has a lot of complaining but any suggestions in how the skill tree could be better in a constructive way

Which stands for you guys not being able to embrace change cuz love the char so much at the point she is too precious she deserves the best and nothing less but anything that makes her different in order to be better ain't good enough. 

And then attacking the forumites saying for the 20th time that Tecent contributes so your voice should be mandatory  in a rude and demanding way ... Which is not the play

[Peasant]

7 hours ago, arubaro said:

Btw, you didn't took into account abigail dps in your math and because wanda and wigfrid are unbalanced doesnt mean wendy should too. They are boring characters because they make the game easy, making every character as dumb wont improve the experience but will make some people drop the game even more 

Abigail herself doesnt add much in wendy's dph, her attack rate is 1 sec, while wendy on a beefalo can hit roughly 2 times, so abigail can only boost wendy's dph to 121 at most, and lesser if you consider the fact that she has a chance of dying. Besides wanda and wigfrid are hardly "unbalanced" characters, as wanda's unbalanceness is founded on almost flawless gameplay which requires more experience than usual characters, while wigfrid is only "unbalanced" after she crafted the charged elding spear. But by then you are close to the opening rifts which again would balance wigfrid with planar entity.