Why everyone seems to panic over an unbalanced character?

[Peasant]

I seems to have seen lots of disscussions worring that remaking or strengthening wendy's skilltree would make her unbalanced, and I dont quite understand why people worry so much.

Is it because the Potato Man has given people so much a shock that people havent recovered from it now?

In my opinion I believe that there won't be another wolfgang till all the skilltrees are updated, possibly even after that. You see wolfgang is one of the first to have skilltrees(we are excluding wilson from this), when they were constructing his skill tree, klei didnt know how to design it, so they simply made him stronger and stronger rather than adding new stuff to it. But, now there's a good number of characters who possess a skilltree and beside wigfrid and wendy whose is still in beta test all the skilltrees are receiving rather postive comments, so I believe that klei now has roughly found a thread to design skilltrees——at least a thread to design skilltrees for the weak ones, whom can never match Mr Potato even after strengthening. As for the already strong ones, well take a look at wigfrid and wendy, who's skilltree cant even allow them to match the weak ones after their skilltrees.

So generally speaking, I really dont see why we should worry about whether argues asking klei to strengen wendy's skilltree would cause an unbalanced character.

Edit: I mean I know an unbalanced character would make the game boeing or so, but my point is that there's no need to worry for that cause the possibility of a new unbalanced character to be made is rather low, if not impossible.

[Jakepeng99]

They did it to Wurt, and it messed her up. She is so op it feels unawarding to play, because the merms are buffed so much despite already being so powerful. The merms are basically free to recruit, only a one time investment. If they were to buff Abigail or something to the point of being broken or unbalanced, the cool balance of maintaining both Wendy and Abigail would fail.

[cropo]

2 minutes ago, YXukun said:

Is it because the Potato Man has given people so much a shock that people havent recovered from it now?

When I was a kid I played Grand Theft Auto a lot, and the first thing I would always do would be do find out all the cheat codes and pump them in and fly around in a mega-flying vehicle that shot missles. It was fun for awhile, but eventually I realized I was actually having more fun NOT doing this and earning money naturally and playing the missions the way the game expected me to originally.

I would say even if someone was a Wendy main, they want to feel "just right" in terms of power and downsides, now what that level of "just right" is can be wildly different from everyone but no one wants to play as Superman in a survival game. Well, some do, but the vanilla characters should try to strike a better balance and not just let you mega-destroy anything in your path.

Some people feel skill trees alone make the game super OP and pointless, I disagree, but I can understand why they think that way and why they fear it will cause everyone to become a massive god-blob of destruction. 

"Just don't use it" is a good argument in a lot of cases, but I don't know if it fits skill trees. If I have to feel stressed out about playing "power chicken" with the game where I have to continuously scrutinize my decisions, and force myself to play worse in order to have a satisfying time that isn't a good feeling. Ideally, a player giving their absolute best with their characters strengths and advantages will feel challenged and limited in the things they do but still feel they have the proper tools to deal with the situation with a bit of effort on their part. It feels crappy to feel weak, but it also feels crappy to feel too strong.

This all comes with the knowledge that there is serious room for improvement on base characters and skill trees, but this is probably the reason people are afraid of Wendy becoming "op" with a skill tree.

[SilverSpoon]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They did it to Wurt, and it messed her up. She is so op it feels unawarding to play, because the merms are buffed so much despite already being so powerful. The merms are basically free to recruit, only a one time investment. If they were to buff Abigail or something to the point of being broken or unbalanced, the cool balance of maintaining both Wendy and Abigail would fail.

I have mixed feelings about that. Wurt is by far the OP compared to other characters, but on the other hand, for those who have no choice but to play DST solo, Wurt is a last resort, and the previous skill tree greatly improved the QoL for solo play Wurt...

[Siren11]

3 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They did it to Wurt, and it messed her up. She is so op it feels unawarding to play, because the merms are buffed so much despite already being so powerful. The merms are basically free to recruit, only a one time investment. If they were to buff Abigail or something to the point of being broken or unbalanced, the cool balance of maintaining both Wendy and Abigail would fail.

This is why discussion about the shroud will be important when the new version is out. Abigail shouldn’t be a tank. A lot of the fun of playing Wendy is kiting for her and Abigail, but it is tricky to learn. Ideally the shroud will just smooth out that learning curve a bit.

But nothing else about Wendy’s base kit should change. It’s already strange adjusting to the new way to interact with Abigail’s flower and the potions.

[arubaro]

Because makes the game boring...atleast for the players that enjoy playing videogames

[Peasant]

8 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They did it to Wurt, and it messed her up. She is so op it feels unawarding to play, because the merms are buffed so much despite already being so powerful. The merms are basically free to recruit, only a one time investment. If they were to buff Abigail or something to the point of being broken or unbalanced, the cool balance of maintaining both Wendy and Abigail would fail.

In my memories wurt was already one of the most powerful characters by building a merm gang and wiping out every creature she sees, so I didnt quite understand what her skilltree had brought her......wasnt wurt able to do the same before skilltree?

[arubaro]

14 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They did it to Wurt, and it messed her up. She is so op it feels unawarding to play, because the merms are buffed so much despite already being so powerful. The merms are basically free to recruit, only a one time investment. If they were to buff Abigail or something to the point of being broken or unbalanced, the cool balance of maintaining both Wendy and Abigail would fail.

Agree. She was one of my favorite characters and now i dont want to play her anymore but bettet complain about fw requiring to use more than 1 item

[Peasant]

4 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Because makes the game boring...atleast for the players that enjoy playing videogames

This kinda didnt answer the question...I mean I know it would make the game boring, but in my perspective there's no chance this could happen, so I'm confused about people keep worring

[paodocevoante1]

32 minutes ago, YXukun said:

In my memories wurt was already one of the most powerful characters by building a merm gang and wiping out every creature she sees, so I didnt quite understand what her skilltree had brought her......wasnt wurt able to do the same before skilltree?

When Wurt has the time to build the merm houses (and now she has the skill tree that empowers her and the merms even more) she is undoubtedly the strongest character in the game and has no arguments against it
her skill tree is kind of disappointing because it doesn't add anything really cool or out of what she already does, it just enhances her power, what she already had in excess

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, cropo said:

When I was a kid I played Grand Theft Auto a lot, and the first thing I would always do would be do find out all the cheat codes and pump them in and fly around in a mega-flying vehicle that shot missles. It was fun for awhile, but eventually I realized I was actually having more fun NOT doing this and earning money naturally and playing the missions the way the game expected me to originally.

When i was little, whenever i found out how to use consoe commands, i would abuse them. I remember doing a half legit half spawn in whatever i want Ark game. I tried it for subnautica but they removed commands on xbox.

1 hour ago, cropo said:

Just don't use it" is a good argument in a lot of cases,

No its not. I want to try hard to survive, not try be worse on purpouse. It feels so artificial.

[RussoDaFederal]

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

I have mixed feelings about that. Wurt is by far the OP for multiplayer, but on the other hand, for those who have no choice but to play DST solo, Wurt is a last resort, and the previous skill tree greatly improved the QoL for solo play Wurt...

What?? Please educate me on this. I never really cared for Wurt, but there was this one time I played on a server hosted by a Wurt player for a few weeks and the experience was so terrible it made me hate playing alongside her. That was before the skill tree. She does so much stuff by herself that she ends up with no synergies with other characters. Why bother asking your friends to help and share tasks when your merms can do everything. It was probably the most boring experience I had in DST, it was just merms galore. In what sense Wurt is better in multiplayer than solo? Honest question, it could be that this Wurt player was just a very non cooperative player tbh

[SilverSpoon]

28 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

What?? Please educate me on this. I never really cared for Wurt, but there was this one time I played on a server hosted by a Wurt player for a few weeks and the experience was so terrible it made me hate playing alongside her. That was before the skill tree. She does so much stuff by herself that she ends up with no synergies with other characters. Why bother asking your friends to help and share tasks when your merms can do everything. It was probably the most boring experience I had in DST, it was just merms galore. In what sense Wurt is better in multiplayer than solo? Honest question, it could be that this Wurt player was just a very non cooperative player tbh

Maybe my poor English conveyed the wrong meaning. I'm Sorry. I have corrected it.

[Primalflower]

heh heh heh the potato man

[Sacco]

because having an OP character isn't fun (at least for me).

There is no challenge and therefore no fun.

What's even the point of playing if you can steamroll everything with minimum gears.

[cropo]

3 minutes ago, Gytre said:

How?

Well if I wanted to play Wilson because I liked his looks or his beard, but every attack he did instantly killed everything he punched, I would want to change it to be weaker because killing enemies in one hit isn't fun. It would feel bad because I like everything else he had, but it would feel like I was cheating or invalidating the games difficulty by playing him. There are some mod characters I really like the appearance of, like Wharang, but can't justify playing them because they have 500 different crafts and forms of XP gain and damage multipliers that make the game more of an open-world RPG than a survival game, so I try to learn how to "Wilsonify" them for personal use so they have literally no power and it's just the looks. 

The only way you'd like playing a character that's ''too strong'' is if you wanted to play in a power fantasy and I think there are easier alternatives that can be done on the players end and shouldn't be done to specific vanilla characters that everyone kind of shares.

[flamboyant wolf]

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

Agree. She was one of my favorite characters and now i dont want to play her anymore 

Same. I would say it's unfortunate, but tbh there's so many other great characters to choose from nowadays, so I don't even think I care all that much? But yeah, Wurt feels just stupidly powerful with minimal effort, to the point where it kinda feels... pointless?

[SullyD]

3 hours ago, YXukun said:

I seems to have seen lots of disscussions worring that remaking or strengthening wendy's skilltree would make her unbalanced, and I dont quite understand why people worry so much.

You should have seen when the Maxwell rework was in beta, people on this forum would almost hang someone if they could.

[arubaro]

3 hours ago, Fitzee said:

I have no issues requiring more than one item for a fight personally; it's just unoptimized controllers being my main issue. I did make a suggestion to improve it in hopes Klei at least considers implementing it in the near future. 

My claim wasnt against suggestions trying to solve the problem with controlers. Actually, the people i was talking about uses the controller problem as a weapon for their casual propaganda when the awful experience of playing with controller affects more situations than fw

1 hour ago, Gytre said:

Boring for you, not for everyone.

Sure, being invincible in a game where you are suppose to die is peak gaming experience. Some people play the wrong genres or they have some kind of problem related to making an effort to obtain a reward

[arubaro]

2 minutes ago, Gytre said:

Yep thats the goal of survival games to try to survive forever.

But you have to gain that instead of just expecting the game to be unbalanced so you cant lose

2 minutes ago, Gytre said:

I use skill trees because some characters are uninteresting or weak without them like: Woodie, Willow, Winona and Wormwood.

Okey...woodie and wormwood uninteresting lol 

[Cheggf]

If character balance doesn't matter why do you want her to become stronger? 

[Sacco]

57 minutes ago, Gytre said:

Yep thats the goal of survival games to try to survive forever. Skill trees can always be ignored when you don't want to have stronger abilities. You can enjoy Wurt how you enjoyed her before, what did her skill tree do to make you not enjoy her if you can just ignore it? I use skill trees because some characters are uninteresting or weak without them like: Woodie, Willow, Winona and Wormwood.

Skill trees would be cool if they gave some new ways to play with actual downsides to play around and upsides.

As of now they are cool yes, but boring because you just become OP with them.

I don't think is a good game design and i think it needs fixing, because someone can't just straight up ignore one of the most important features the game offers.

[Crimson Hollow]

I am frankly sick of seeing like 10 wendy related threads every day. It is already enough to see 6 wendys in every public server.

She is supposed to be a new player friendly character, if she gets an op skilltree she would be unstoppable from new players to veterans. Plus her player friendly skillset she would either become strong to the point of unrewarding or completely dominating player choices. 

[Sacco]

5 minutes ago, Crimson Hollow said:

I am frankly sick of seeing like 10 wendy related threads every day. It is already enough to see 6 wendys in every public server.

She is supposed to be a new player friendly character, if she gets an op skilltree she would be unstoppable from new players to veterans. Plus her player friendly skillset she would either become strong to the point of unrewarding or completely dominating player choices. 

and new players would stick 100% of the times with her, never giving a chance to other interesting characters...

[Jakepeng99]

3 hours ago, flamboyant wolf said:

Same. I would say it's unfortunate, but tbh there's so many other great characters to choose from nowadays, so I don't even think I care all that much? But yeah, Wurt feels just stupidly powerful with minimal effort, to the point where it kinda feels... pointless?

Yeah. 

The thing is, if Klei nerfed and rebalanced her, there would be some people moaning about it, going "Wurt's useless now! Wurt is ruined!" without looking at the changes beyond a first glance. Though, i believe if Klei basically let them suck it up and whine for a bit, they will end up realising if the change was justified and if it really made Wurt bad, or a better more fun character. Honestly, out of all the skilltrees, Wurt's might be the only one i believe needs a rework. The combat focused direction was a huge mistake, they cant make Webber different from her without making Webber even more crazy, since spiders are combat focused.

The same thing apparently happened with the bunnymen nerf.