(BETA) Gemslots feel far too restrictive

[MrMyther]

This current system has little freedom to create and experiment with unique gem builds.
Gems requiring Corestones to unset just feels wrong, this action should be free to encourage experimentation instead of punishing it.

The concept of a typed gem slot is interesting, but I feel like it has been aimed in the wrong direction - hoping for these typed slots to get a rework that improves the player choice.

My idea for how these typed slots could work - Typed slots now allow for ANY type of gem to be inserted, if you insert the same type of gem into its typed slot it will gain a small bonus to its power and experience gain.
(this would also give the Proto-Weapons extra reason to be used - other than obtaining Boss-Weapons - since all gems would be more potent and boost experience gain when equipped on them)

This would give gems the freedom to experiment that I feel they need, but also giving a bonus to players who build into the weapons specific slots.


Very curious to know how other people feel about how the gem slots are currently implemented.
(Gems themselves are a great addition into the game, altho there are a few questionable powers they have)

[MrMyther]

1 hour ago, MrMyther said:

(Gems themselves are a great addition into the game, altho there are a few questionable powers they have)

Cough

[Setsuna_IX]

I'd have to echo the sentiment that is indeed too restrictive as is. For me personally, the support and sustain gems are lot more interesting gameplay wise as they're the ones that are more likely to actually open up some new playstyles instead of the damage gems being percentage increases to kill things quicker.

But alas, therein lies the problem of not being able to choose your gem slots as most weps on hammer for example only come in combos of dmg + support with only one exception being gourdo that gives you sustain + support.

My suggestion is that I'd like if perhaps we can spend corestones/ingots (preferably ingots since unsetting already requires corestones) to set the type of gem slot we want so that you can specialize in certain attributes if you wanna go full support or sustain as an example. I'd ideally like it to cost 1 ingot preferably as one Super Frenzy 3 run clear awards you about 4 assuming you redeem the spring port, with 3 on boss defeat. So if you wanted to swap out 3 of your gem slots for example (only boss weps have 3 at the moment), it only takes one run to do it which I think is a fair time investment.

I acknowledge that my suggestion isn't as player friendly unlike Myther's that require no additional resources which would encourage more rapid experimentation as a result, but I'm going under the assumption here that the design philosophy is to retain some level of commitment when slotting in gems.

Quote

My idea for how these typed slots could work - Typed slots now allow for ANY type of gem to be inserted, if you insert the same type of gem into its typed slot it will gain a small bonus to its power and experience gain.

I'm a fan of this idea if more people are in favor of myther's suggestion, granted one fear I have regarding the typed slot bonus is that it would just end up incentivizing meta synergies with a given weapon even more, though you could argue even without the typed bonus, a meta combo for a given weapon would develop regardless to which I'd agree.

[Pumking7]

5 hours ago, MrMyther said:

Gems requiring Corestones to unset just feels wrong, this action should be free to encourage experimentation instead of punishing it.

I understand the reasoning behind this, its a way to try and stop players from constantly switching their most powerful gem between the weapons they are currently playing with. It means they may want to try using other gems they collect as swapping the focus damage gem between weapons every run becomes too costly (something I had done in the initial playtests).

I do agree that 3 corestones is a bit absurd in the price to remove a gem, maybe making it around 1-2 corestones would be a bit more fair to encourage more experimentation.

5 hours ago, MrMyther said:

My idea for how these typed slots could work - Typed slots now allow for ANY type of gem to be inserted, if you insert the same type of gem into its typed slot it will gain a small bonus to its power and experience gain.

I feel like this deters the whole point of gem slots being typed in the first place which is to make every weapon feel a bit more unique by giving them only specific gem types to be used, so it feels more like every gem has a little different playstyle (Admittedly its kind of awkward at the moment where almost every weapon contains a "damage" and "support" gem slot).

I feel like there should be a mix here where every weapons first gem slot is an any type gem slot, but the second gem slot is specific to the weapon used. This would both encourage creativity for allowing players to make a choice regarding their first gem used, but limit their choices when choosing additional gems for weapons allowing for both aspects of gem use (creativity yet restriction for weapons) to be satisfied.

4 hours ago, MrMyther said:

"Backstab Protection Gem"

This doesn't seem like the worst since we have hoarfrost mantle to compliment it now, its seems fun to try and come up with possible solutions to these weirder gems. 

But some gems though like "Miniboss protection" I could never see myself using...

[HeatAndRun]

I agree the restriction is not that exciting. Ironically the most fun weapon to use is Proto-Weapons in this beta.

I'm playing quite a bit now, and gonna post things about my thoughts sometime later!

[MrMyther]

42 minutes ago, Pumking7 said:

I understand the reasoning behind this, its a way to try and stop players from constantly switching their most powerful gem between the weapons they are currently playing with.

Theres just so many gems and weapons, and they are not made equally - I dont see anyone wanting to slot a bad gem into a weapon while a cost exists to remove it.
(will have more thoughts on the power level of gems once I find most of them)
Current system seems to want players to just Set And Forget their gem loadouts.

Its not like we have to pay corestones every time we switch any other piece of equipment, I see no reason for it to exist on gems either.
 

50 minutes ago, Pumking7 said:

I feel like there should be a mix here where every weapons first gem slot is an any type gem slot

Definitely need more weapons that have a Mutli-Slot if they decide to keep the slots locked, theres currently only 3 (non-gourdo) weapons that have Sustain Slots, not exactly encouraging creativity when the vast majority of weapons simply cannot use an entire type of gem.

The more I mess with this beta the more I dislike how it is right now. Highly preferred the old gem system where every slot could use any gem typing.

[ColinTheNPC]

Type slot actually sounds like a wonderful idea, it encourages creativity but also rewards players who follow the type, but then an extra point is that for the players that DO follow the type, they just tinker around and find the right gem that still pairs well with the build they're creating, thus MORE creativity

and yeah pls let us unequip gems for free, as soon as i saw it requires corestone i felt vibe checked

[gibbert]

i also dont think theres many good reasons for the gem unset cost, it indeed makes it feel like a punishment for experimenting with different builds. that and also how theres not a lot of weapons with blue gem slots is pretty goofy