ancient fuelweaver rework is too hard

[SilverSpoon]

42 minutes ago, arubaro said:

How is unfair? Is hard but in this game any boss is harder than the average boss of many non casual games

• AFW is that it won't be a fair fight unless you have one of most valuable materials and violently spend it.
• With just one mistake, all the damage you dealt will be recovered.
• The difficulty varies too much depending on there is one player or multiple players.
• The difficulty varies too much depending on the character.

[grm9]

23 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

• AFW is that it won't be a fair fight unless you have one of most valuable materials and violently spend it

you can literally do the fight with only shadow pieces loot, magi and a foot ball helm, so literally just stuff that you could've gotten from AG and in labyrinth, it's practically free

23 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

• With just one mistake, all the damage you dealt will be recovered

no, you need to make a lot of mistakes for that to happen

23 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

• The difficulty varies too much depending on there is one player or multiple players.
• The difficulty varies too much depending on the character

it doesn't, you still can make the fight almost as easy as possible solo when playing as any character, e.g. with gun powder and catapults, since you still can use catapults after swapping off winona         

[dst_lover]

44 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

• AFW is that it won't be a fair fight unless you have one of most valuable materials and violently spend it

 the average player will probably not fight him in winter and if u are not making a world just to fight him and you are playing normally you even if u are good you will not get the heart in day 1 because you will be busy doing other things so you will probably get the heart in day 21 and because it’s winter i don’t think you will go to the cave in winter and you will probably will be doing other things like doing pearl quests or killing other bosses or making farms or designing your base or doing other tasks in winter so an normal play through even if u are good at the game you will probably fight him in spring and if u are in spring you will just have to kill the Moose Goose and some volt goats and you will have probably a Shadow Manipulator to make the   Nightmare Amulet so it’s not that expensive because most of the materials are just killing the moose goose and 1-3 volt goats and making 1  Nightmare Amulet and if u are a very good like some pros you will not need weather pain  for the fight It’s basically free and some characters you will not need the weather pain and if you are bad at the game and can’t fight him with weather pain you will only need to kill the cc and after that the fight is basically free 

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

AFW is that it won't be a fair fight unless you have one of most valuable materials and violently spend it.

Final boss with the best rewards and the option to trigger a world event to get even better rewards in a game about gathering materials. For what are you saving down feathers and thulecite??? The game skill requirement is low, asking for more expensive materials than a treeguard to make the fight easier is what can be expected in such game.

Do you really want to faceroll the entire game with log suits and hambats??? Maybe this isnt your game if you hate that much gathering few materials 

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

With just one mistake, all the damage you dealt will be recovered.

Either you dealt very few damage or you make many mistakes. 1 mistake doesnt make fw go to full health. Sure, he heals a lot but is just a treeguard with a rot spell, healing and shield. If they nerf the skills then he should get crazy atack patters harder to dodge than a treeguard...

Seems like bosses should be as simple and repetitive as df (and cheeseable since never is enough)

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

• The difficulty varies too much depending on there is one player or multiple players.
• The difficulty varies too much depending on the character.

???? That actually is a bad thing for MP. The fight is fair, fun and challenging 1 and 2 players but for more is stupid

Every single boss suffers from that but you needed to point it because your 2 previous arguments were so bland alone.

Most characters are getting wolfgang level of power if not more. Such power creep on top of nerfs enemies will ruin the game. Early and mid game is already a joke and the rift content didnt got any update that justifies such buffs. Let the only one difficulty thing be difficult, for god sakes

Im with you, he should scale per player getting more hp, damage, aoe atacks and minions

 

 

Fights in this game are mostly really bland and repetitive.  Most Fights can be facerolled by tanking with a marble armor and munching food which requires to press 2 buttoms

This is one of the few challenging bosses and you all want to nerf it because doing and effort is too much to ask. This game has free revivals and rollbacks, has imba portal to mix imba perks, followers and a bunch of mechanics and items to make fights easier,  also you can edit world settings to make things easier but isnt enough because this boss is a little more difficult than the other glorified treeguards because it gives too much rewards... idk what kind of games you all play but bosses usually requiere more trys and skill than defeating this boss

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

you can literally do the fight with only shadow pieces loot, magi and a foot ball helm, so literally just stuff that you could've gotten from AG and in labyrinth, it's practically free

no, you need to make a lot of mistakes for that to happen

it doesn't, you still can make the fight almost as easy as possible solo when playing as any character, e.g. with gun powder and catapults, since you still can use catapults after swapping off winona         

Ah yes because everyone loves grinding out stacks of gunpowder or swapping characters. 

Ancient fuelweaver is easily killable with grind/lunar post-rift gear but as we know from old ancient guardian, being killable ≠ being fun. Old ancient guardian got reworked into a fun boss to fight, the same can be done for AFW.

Being shoehorned into certain unfun grindy strategies is not a valid defence.

[dst_lover]

32 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Ah yes because everyone loves grinding out stacks of gunpowder or swapping characters. 

Ancient fuelweaver is easily killable with grind/lunar post-rift gear but as we know from old ancient guardian, being killable ≠ being fun. Old ancient guardian got reworked into a fun boss to fight, the same can be done for AFW.

Being shoehorned into certain unfun grindy strategies is not a valid defence.

If you have 0 skill go for the gunpowder yes it’s expensive and slow and  not fun to do but that what it’s should be to motivate players to try other methods 

if u are bad at fighting him but you are good enough to kill cc go for his bright shade tools you will make it anyway to fight mutation bosses and pure rift enemies so just use it on afw it’s very slow not as expensive as gunpowder because you can repair and use it for multiple fight and you will craft it anyway and it’s more fun to use then gunpowder but not very enjoyable to me at leat
 
if u are a good player and decent at the game just fight him normally with weather pain and sanity food and tools , it’s not expensive and you will only need to wait to spring and that is not very bad because you will probably fight him in summer or spring anyway and it’s very fun to fight him like that to me 

if u are very good at the game you can fight him without weather pain so it’s kinda free and very fast to do and fun 

to me the AFW is one of the best bosses in DST because he Motivates players to become batter and it’s very fun to fight him and he is will deign boss he have good loot and reason to fight him and his difficulty is very good for the time you will fight him the only problem that I have that I always play with my friends and he becomes very easy and weak if there is multiple people other then that he and the cc are the best bosses and without mentioning that the AFW is very special he is the only boss that fight the why he does removing his ability like his mind control or healing or his cage will destroy his identity to me 

[arubaro]

30 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Ah yes because everyone loves grinding out stacks of gunpowder or swapping characters. 

Ancient fuelweaver is easily killable with grind/lunar post-rift gear but as we know from old ancient guardian, being killable ≠ being fun. Old ancient guardian got reworked into a fun boss to fight, the same can be done for AFW.

Being shoehorned into certain unfun grindy strategies is not a valid defence.

Right. They can add more variety of atacks to make the fight funnier but we all know you ask to remove mechanics which only will make him dumber and boring

[grm9]

45 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Ah yes because everyone loves grinding out stacks of gunpowder or swapping characters. 

Ancient fuelweaver is easily killable with grind/lunar post-rift gear but as we know from old ancient guardian, being killable ≠ being fun. Old ancient guardian got reworked into a fun boss to fight, the same can be done for AFW.

Being shoehorned into certain unfun grindy strategies is not a valid defence

the copious attempts to pretend that your opinion is objectively correct are laughable, i think that FW's already fun but AG isn't and that AG could get a 2nd rework and i also don't have any option for skipping the fight except wasting time on a cheese, what now?

[SilverSpoon]

4 hours ago, grm9 said:

you can literally do the fight with only shadow pieces loot, magi and a foot ball helm, so literally just stuff that you could've gotten from AG and in labyrinth, it's practically free

4 hours ago, dst_lover said:

u are in spring you will just have to kill the Moose Goose and some volt goats and you will have probably a Shadow Manipulator to make the   Nightmare Amulet so it’s not that expensive because most of the materials are just killing the moose goose and 1-3 volt goats and making 1  Nightmare Amulet

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

Final boss with the best rewards and the option to trigger a world event to get even better rewards in a game about gathering materials. For what are you saving down feathers and thulecite??? The game skill requirement is low, asking for more expensive materials than a treeguard to make the fight easier is what can be expected in such game.

No matter what anyone says, having to consume walrus tusks, orange gems, and bolt goat horns every time you fight is enough to say hate, period.
Also, since bone cages actually exist, so the premise that "the bone cages can be avoided, so the lazy staff is not necessary" is incorrect.

4 hours ago, grm9 said:

no, you need to make a lot of mistakes for that to happen

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

Either you dealt very few damage or you make many mistakes. 1 mistake doesnt make fw go to full health.

Dozens×400=At least 4000. Also note that he has skills such as bone cage and mind control that neutralize players and almost impossible to avoid.

4 hours ago, grm9 said:

it doesn't, you still can make the fight almost as easy as possible solo when playing as any character, e.g. with gun powder and catapults, since you still can use catapults after swapping off winona

I think it's a too far from argue have to spend a huge amount of resources to prepare the gunpowder, and to have to go through Winona at some point...

 

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

Do you really want to faceroll the entire game with log suits and hambats??? Maybe this isnt your game if you hate that much gathering few materials 

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

Fights in this game are mostly really bland and repetitive.  Most Fights can be facerolled by tanking with a marble armor and munching food which requires to press 2 buttoms

Maybe this isnt your game if you hate that

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

the copious attempts to pretend that your opinion is objectively correct are laughable, i think that FW's already fun but AG isn't and that AG could get a 2nd rework and i also don't have any option for skipping the fight except wasting time on a cheese, what now?

Your copious attempts to pretend that AFW is a reasonable fight is laughable.

Continue walking AFW to all corners of the arena like some dog while rounding up shadow woven like sheep,  keep defending ridiculously dumb-looking strategies. 

What now you say? Well Klei obviously reworking AFW, the most cheesed boss in the game for a reason 

[SilverSpoon]

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

Do you really want to faceroll the entire game with log suits and hambats???

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

you ask to remove mechanics

Nobody said like that. How many times do we have to point this out to you?

[grm9]

23 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

No matter what anyone says, having to consume walrus tusks, orange gems, and bolt goat horns every time you fight is enough to say hate, period.
Also, since bone cages actually exist, so the premise that "the bone cages can be avoided, so the lazy staff is not necessary" is incorrect

???

this looks like some sort of zombified response, 3 people told you that you can do the fight with out spending weather pains or lazy explorers and you're complaining about needing to spend them, huh??? you can avoid bone cage with no teleportation and you don't need AoE for dealing with woven shadows

25 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Dozens×400=At least 4000. Also note that he has skills such as bone cage and mind control that neutralize players and almost impossible to avoid

they're entirely possible to avoid and FW can eat only a few woven shadows after you mess up, not all of them

26 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

I think it's a too far from argue have to spend a huge amount of resources to prepare the gunpowder, and to have to go through Winona at some point...

we had lureplant previously but it's gone now so blame klei ig

22 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Your copious attempts to pretend that AFW is a reasonable fight is laughable

it's a reasonable fight according to like 90% of people

58 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Continue walking AFW to all corners of the arena like some dog while rounding up shadow woven like sheep,  keep defending ridiculously dumb-looking strategies

looks like trolling

59 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

What now you say? Well Klei obviously reworking AFW, the most cheesed boss in the game for a reason 

no statistics

[dst_lover]

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

No matter what anyone says, having to consume walrus tusks, orange gems, and bolt goat horns every time you fight is enough to say hate, period.
Also, since bone cages actually exist, so the premise that "the bone cages can be avoided, so the lazy staff is not necessary" is incorrect 

1 you will not need to bring the weather pain or lazy staff or sanity food or items after you kill him you will have to wait 20 days in that time you will have the bright staff to replace the weather pain or you can simply use a green staff on 13 % weather pain to gain it’s loot back and the lazy staff is not need it because if u will fight the AFW again you will have his Shadow Thurible and for the sanity items you will have his bone helm 

that without mentioning that every time you kill the AFW you will have an extra Houndius Shootius

in my ps4 world I have like 9 Houndius Shootius and every time I kill him he becomes why more easy then before 

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

Nobody said like that. How many times do we have to point this out to you?

You hate using items and they ask to add an item to remove mechanics

Point stuff as much as you want but atleast try to be right

[SilverSpoon]

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

this looks like some sort of zombified response, 3 people told you that you can do the fight with out spending weather pains or lazy explorers and you're complaining about needing to spend them, huh??? you can avoid bone cage with no teleportation and you don't need AoE for dealing with woven shadows

By all means, please post YOUR proofing video that "Beating AFK without Weather Pain or Lazy Explorer on first try"

5 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

you can simply use a green staff on 13 % weather pain to gain it’s loot back

Green gem is still too expensive for consume to fight.

6 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

the lazy staff is not need it because if u will fight the AFW again you will have his Shadow Thurible and for the sanity items you will have his bone helm 

I didn't get point this line. Why would a shadow salvage or a bone helm replace a lazy staff?

5 minutes ago, arubaro said:

You hate using items and they ask to add an item to remove mechanics

I never said like that, and also I haven't done that in any previous posts.
My solutions to AFK what I posted are:

• Cap on the amount of recovery, like "X0% of the damage received since the last recovery.
• It possible to break bone cages with a pickaxe.
• Sanity references to the Unseen Hands check, adding allowing one player in combat to break them regardless of their sanity.
• Restore the minimum items needed to fight AFW to the Atrium treasure chest.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

By all means, please post YOUR proofing video that "Beating AFK without Weather Pain or Lazy Explorer on first try"

no, it's not afk on first try, it requires skill and that's good, you get rewarded for getting better at the game by getting to use less resources, if you aren't willing to try to get better, then well too bad, you'll need to spend stuff

[dst_lover]

9 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

 

Green gem is still too expensive for consume to fight.

I didn't get point this line. Why would a shadow salvage or a bone helm replace a lazy staff?

Killing the AFW literally will give you more green gems then you wast on him 

And I didn’t say that the helm replace the lazy I said it will replace sanity items or food like the nightmare amulet 

Edit:  8 min 

[Maxil20]

3 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

I didn't get point this line. Why would a shadow salvage or a bone helm replace a lazy staff?

The shadow thurible completely prevents the bone cage attack from occurring altogether if its fueled. It does this both when equipped and when dropped on the ground in a small-ish radius around it. It does take a bit to get used to, but is substantially easier then lazy explorers or needing to time the cage. This is why you most often see it in the loadout for weaver prep in place of lazy explorers past the first kill.

5 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Green gem is still too expensive for consume to fight.

Given the weaver resets the ruins which is innately a decent source of green gems, I would say the ~2 green gems you use to cycle weaver prep (counting down feather duping as well) is usually more than worthwhile for the fight in particular. After all, what else are you going to use the green gems on?

Not saying the other points are invalid or the like (actually kinda dig the idea of the aitrium chests having unique loot that could potentially be valuable to the weaver fight itself, because I don’t think anyone seriously goes for those at the moment), mainly just wanted to point this out as someone who really likes the thurible and doesn’t want to hoard a bunch of green gems that don’t ever get used.

[xDarkSoul18x]

Could be worse. You could be a console player. . The fight is tedious on console but still somewhat fun and enjoyable. I do hope they eventually touch up bosses. 

[Bumber64]

7 hours ago, grm9 said:

you can literally do the fight with only shadow pieces loot, magi and a foot ball helm, so literally just stuff that you could've gotten from AG and in labyrinth, it's practically free

He said "fair fight". Bone cage every 10(?) seconds is the most ridiculous thing to deal with on top of everything else.

Claiming "it's practically free" for the highest skill ceiling is meaningless. As is any suggestion to use loot you have to beat him first to acquire.

I'd suggest a 30+ second cooldown on it, in addition to pickaxe working. It's just bad.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, xDarkSoul18x said:

Could be worse. You could be a console player. . The fight is tedious on console but still somewhat fun and enjoyable. I do hope they eventually touch up bosses. 

Or they can improve the controler experience and k&m support instead of ruining fun bosses.  Controler will stick suck even if the entire pool of enemies are reworked

1 hour ago, SilverSpoon said:

By all means, please post YOUR proofing video that "Beating AFK without Weather Pain or Lazy Explorer on first try"

Green gem is still too expensive for consume to fight.

I didn't get point this line. Why would a shadow salvage or a bone helm replace a lazy staff?

I never said like that, and also I haven't done that in any previous posts.
My solutions to AFK what I posted are:

• Cap on the amount of recovery, like "X0% of the damage received since the last recovery.
• It possible to break bone cages with a pickaxe.
• Sanity references to the Unseen Hands check, adding allowing one player in combat to break them regardless of their sanity.
• Restore the minimum items needed to fight AFW to the Atrium treasure chest.

If someone can affort a couple of green gems maybe shouldn't be fighting fw in the first place. The game goes for players who think that wasting lazy explorer or weather pain durability.  The game is about gathering and crafting, what else is left if you reduce that? Pressing F?  But I guess in a way that isnt so punishing because we don't want enemies that also require kitting and good positioning like the big worm, right?

[grm9]

16 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

He said "fair fight". Bone cage every 10(?) seconds is the most ridiculous thing to deal with on top of everything else

it's 15 seconds and i don't see any issue with pressing RMB 3 times every 15 seconds if using lazy explorer or having to do a hard thing for saving a lot of time otherwise

16 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Claiming "it's practically free" for the highest skill ceiling is meaningless

it's relevant because that shows people that they can just improve at the fight for reducing the resource cost instead of complaining

16 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

I'd suggest a 30+ second cooldown on it, in addition to pickaxe working. It's just bad

that'd just make it braindead easy to deal with and remove practically every reason for trying to work around it instead of just spending flint and twigs on disabling it instead of an item that requires getting lucky with a 44% chance that you only get to try to get lucky with once before the 1st fight or waiting for winter

[arubaro]

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

that'd just make it braindead easy to deal with and remove practically every reason for trying to work around it instead of just spending flint and twigs on disabling it instead of an item that requires getting lucky with a 44% chance that you only get to try to get lucky with once before the 1st fight or waiting for winter

I do think they should add more options for mobility like the elder spear so we have more variety and routes to take when rushing stuff 

[Bumber64]

15 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it's 15 seconds and i don't see any issue with pressing RMB 3 times every 15 seconds if using lazy explorer or having to do a hard thing for saving a lot of time otherwise

it's relevant because that shows people that they can just improve at the fight for reducing the resource cost instead of complaining

that'd just make it braindead easy to deal with and remove practically any reason to try working around it, dodging it would become practically pointless after it'd become possible to just mine it at the cost of twigs and flint instead of an item that requires either getting lucky or waiting for winter

You still have to fumble to your lazy explorer in a game not designed for in-fight inventory management.

I don't think you were even meant to dodge bone cage. It was designed for multiplayer. Dodging it would still save you the trouble of mining it, but I reiterate: It's just bad!

Edit: Thanks for reminding me you aren't even guaranteed to have access to this item by the time you reach AFW!

[arubaro]

4 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

You still have to fumble to your lazy explorer in a game not designed for in-fight inventory management.

I don't think you were even meant to dodge bone cage. It was designed for multiplayer. Dodging it would still save you the trouble of mining it, but I reiterate: It's just bad!

Wut? You literally have inventory slots attached to whatever key you want for fast switching...maybe is a portion of the player base who refuse to learn how to play videogames properly 

 

Edit. And dont think im saying this like "im too good, you are all noobs". I needed a lot of practice because i wasnt use to play with k&m and less to use many keys...but you know what? Playing games means beat the challenges by improving and learning, for that games are easier at start and harder at the end