Shadow Maul Research

[SilverSpoon]

Also it's a problem on game balance that Level 4 Shadow Maul has +4 Planar Damage compared to Shadow Reaper. Players who can maintain the Level 4 Shadow Maul will have no reason to use Shadow Reaper as a weapon at all (although some may not like the "curse" that reduces sanity by 1.4 per attack when Health is low).

Shadow Maul should have had its Damage nerfed. If the amount of life steal is fixed or previous to a practical level, even if the total Damage of Shadow Maul Level 4 is Spear-Bat Bat level, it will fit into niche as a "Healing Weapon" and will have the same value as other Possessed Shadow Atrium items and Spark Ark items. "Healing Weapon" and will have the same value as other Possessed Shadow Atrium items and Spark Ark items.

 

53 minutes ago, arubaro said:

that im not wasting extra resources because i will use the kits to repair the weapon not matter what so is too convinient.

In multiplayer, kits and their materials are valuable and always in short supply. Dark Tatters have a cap on the number of Ink Blights that appear. Especially in recent multiplayer, the threat of the cave has increased (mostly the Big Worm Boi, aka Instakill, Knock back combo,  Awful reward, Item and structure destroyer), so no one wants to go cave.

Especially with the existence of the "Polar Bearger Bin", I don't think kits are as resource-saving as food as a means of healing.

[Arcwell]

40 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

 

@Arcwell Do you know why it didn't give 102.8?

Those are planar entity punching bags. They have planar entity resistance as well as alignment, so your physical damage ends up being lower.
If you want to get an exact number on a normal lunar enemy, you could do the following:

1. Spawn any lunar enemy that is not planar (i.e. Celestial Champion)
2. Get to max hitstreak then attack that enemy (ideally leave it at full health and just do 1 hit)
3. In console, type this, but replace prefab with the prefab of the enemy you spawned: (i.e. alterguardian_phase3)
   local x = c_find("prefab") c_announce(x.components.health.maxhealth - x.components.health.currenthealth)

(if you need to check the prefab, you can do so with c_announce(c_select()) while hovering your cursor over the enemy)

@Cruvimaster Here's a damage table comparing the three if that helps:

[Cruvimaster]

6 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Those are planar entity punching bags. They have planar entity resistance as well as alignment, so your physical damage ends up being lower.
If you want to get an exact number on a normal lunar enemy, you could do the following:

1. Spawn any lunar enemy that is not planar (i.e. Celestial Champion)
2. Get to max hitstreak then attack that enemy (ideally leave it at full health and just do 1 hit)
3. In console, type this, but replace prefab with the prefab of the enemy you spawned: (i.e. alterguardian_phase3)
   local x = c_find("prefab") c_announce(x.components.health.maxhealth - x.components.health.currenthealth)

(if you need to check the prefab, you can do so with c_announce(c_select()) while hovering your cursor over the enemy)

Ok. Very specific for a few monsters then. With CC there is the aggravating factor of having to constantly move away from it because of the various attacks in the 3 phases (not being able to have consistency in maximum damage). Thanks!

[MasterDos]

On 9/19/2024 at 1:13 AM, NoodlemanNed said:

I didnt vote on this poll because i think its issue is lacking a real purpose in the game, and not something balance related.

Just wait for the next update. It is likely that the Void Axe is designed to cope with the new lunar threats that await us on the surface. I am sure that the next DST update will give us some lunar content, and in considerable quantities.

Also, sooner or later we will get Walter's skill tree. But even without a skill tree, this character really needs the Void Axe.
If you think about it, you can use it constantly now)

[Evelo]

I use it as an axe, nothing else. I got brightshade Sword for my needs. Life steal only matters really for Wormwood since everyone else can just eat a Wobster Bisque or something. And Wormwood has the choice between Brightshade Sword with his skill set or the Maul for the life steal.

Just wish Moonglass got more uses.

[Cruvimaster]

11 hours ago, MasterDos said:

Just wait for the next update. It is likely that the Void Axe is designed to cope with the new lunar threats that await us on the surface.

I see nothing that the Maul can do that the Reaper can't, even in the future. It was designed to be a combination of the Reaper with a Bat Bat and an Axe. That's it and it won't impact anything else in the future.

[Anis5240]

6 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

It was designed to be a combination of the Reaper with a Bat Bat and an Axe.

To be honest, I find it really odd that we're having another axe at this point of the game. Like, the gimmick is interesting but surely there are other weapons that fit that more. With the Reaper, you get another use of it which is to reap grass/twigs/fig at a distance away. I honestly like the reap function, it's great.

I for one, would love to see a Shadow Lance of sorts, maybe letting players to do extra damage while riding and attacking on a beefalo (because why else beefalo would get those gloom bell and nightmare saddle for). It could use the same animation as the fencing sword if not be used on the beefalo, but have the patience be rewarded by some life steal.

[Cruvimaster]

6 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

To be honest, I find it really odd that we're having another axe at this point of the game. Like, the gimmick is interesting but surely there are other weapons that fit that more. With the Reaper, you get another use of it which is to reap grass/twigs/fig at a distance away. I honestly like the reap function, it's great.

I for one, would love to see a Shadow Lance of sorts, maybe letting players to do extra damage while riding and attacking on a beefalo (because why else beefalo would get those gloom bell and nightmare saddle for). It could use the same animation as the fencing sword if not be used on the beefalo, but have the patience be rewarded by some life steal.

I believe that having a life steal of 6.8 is what will make it truly different from the Reaper. Almost 1/3 of the initial proposal (~17)

~4 additional points of damage compared to the Reaper, 3.4 life steal (insignificant), a much higher degree of difficulty to create the item, a constant concern for maintenance and a greater sanity penalty do not justify this item in my opinion.

[00petar00]

11 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

To be honest, I find it really odd that we're having another axe at this point of the game. Like, the gimmick is interesting but surely there are other weapons that fit that more. With the Reaper, you get another use of it which is to reap grass/twigs/fig at a distance away. I honestly like the reap function, it's great.

I for one, would love to see a Shadow Lance of sorts, maybe letting players to do extra damage while riding and attacking on a beefalo (because why else beefalo would get those gloom bell and nightmare saddle for). It could use the same animation as the fencing sword if not be used on the beefalo, but have the patience be rewarded by some life steal.

Another axe wouldn't be terrible but it needs to take down trees in 1 chop, we already have bosses that make it so much easier so unless it is something like this it won't matter at all how good it is at chopping.

A good post rift weapon that has damage and lifesteal is quite interesting but it is getting nerfed literally to the ground because players can showcase to developers their exceptional skill after playing the game for 10 years on how overpowered lifesteal is. I do agree that 17 HP lifesteal per hit was too much but around 10 was maybe okay, I don't see how it can go from 10 to 3.4 while it kept all the negatives it had from the start. I know that sanity drain was reduced but it doesn't matter, it shouldn't be there at all with the current 3.4 HP lifesteal.

If shadow maul is going to keep sanity drain and reset on 0% it needs to have 6-8 HP lifesteal.

[arubaro]

34 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I believe that having a life steal of 6.8 is what will make it truly different from the Reaper. Almost 1/3 of the initial proposal (~17)

~4 additional points of damage compared to the Reaper, 3.4 life steal (insignificant), a much higher degree of difficulty to create the item, a constant concern for maintenance and a greater sanity penalty do not justify this item in my opinion.

That is batbat's life steal... makes no sense. Batbat is a secondary weapon only used to recover health, with the maul you are always hitting the enemy so your health is always between 90 and 100% unless you are terrible at kitting

28 minutes ago, 00petar00 said:

, I don't see how it can go from 10 to 3.4 while it kept all the negatives it had from the start

Is called balance, klei is better at it that some users, apparently..

[00petar00]

6 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Is called balance, klei is better at it that some users, apparently..

It is called testing, why do you think it started with 17 HP lifesteal?

3.4 HP lifesteal is unbalanced with the downsides it has and makes the weapon terrible and not worth the effort at all.

[arubaro]

1 minute ago, 00petar00 said:

It is called testing, why do you think it started with 17 HP lifesteal?

3.4 HP lifesteal is unbalanced with the downsides it has and makes the weapon terrible and not worth the effort at all.

Im testing it but i dony expect to win without effort

I said what i did with the maul and how i didnt need healing items

If you cant manage less than 2 sanity drain dont kill fw neither use dark swords

[Ridley]

I thought the Shadow Maul would be balanced towards making old boss fights feel new and exciting but harder in a unique way. Insanity creatures trying interrupt the player, the Maul screaming for sustenance, and making sure not to get so flustered you let the durability reach 0. The Maul breaking is worse then a player death after all. The lifesteal could just be a lure to get players to thinking the weapon is straight overpowered before realising how hard it is to wield the power without losing it. It wouldn't matter that all the relevant bosses are dead by the time you obtain the maxed out Maul because the Maul would make the fights intrinsically fun to rematch.

Still working towards obtaining the new Maul, but it sounds like a lot of work for what equates to using Shadow Reaper and a few pierogies.

 

[arubaro]

2 minutes ago, Ridley said:

The Maul breaking is worse then a player death after all.

You really need to mess up to break it...

[Ridley]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

You really need to mess up to break it...

Yes, I know. That's why I thought it would take balance changes to push it in that direction. I think the decrease in the hunger drain rate is going the opposite direction of what I was expecting. That paragraph was about a theoretical Maul, not the current one.

[arubaro]

Just now, Ridley said:

Yes, I know. That's why I thought it would take balance changes to push it in that direction. I think the decrease in the hunger drain rate is going the opposite direction of what I was expecting. That paragraph was about a theoretical Maul, not the current one.

Actually i wont care if they remove that downside,  has 0 impact anyway...and still there are people complaining about "how expensive is to maintain it"

[grm9]

1 hour ago, Ridley said:

the Maul screaming for sustenance

you can kill 2 butter flies or spiders before the fight for preventing that

1 hour ago, Ridley said:

making sure not to get so flustered you let the durability reach 0

using a repair kit after every 199 or less hits doesn't seem that hard

[Ridley]

1 hour ago, grm9 said:

you can kill 2 butter flies or spiders before the fight for preventing that

using a repair kit after every 199 or less hits doesn't seem that hard

That paragraph was about a theoretical Maul where this wouldn't be true, not the current one where this is true.