On Reviled Cheese and Player Freedom

[Gashzer]

4 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

It kind of saddens me that you've taken this hardline stance against people playing the game in a way you don't want them to, Gashzer, when you have pretty reasonable views about Fuelweaver and what Klei could do to improve it. I find myself disagreeing with you more on this issue than I ever do on anything else. 

*sniff sniff* Still love you bro.

But i gotta stay true to me yeno.

[mima_]

does taking more free hit by triggering mindcontrol attack but canceling it on last second with teleport during AFW fight is cheese too? will it be patched? since mind control is basically one of deadly punishment by not having enough sanity but people use it to get free hit during fight 

[dst_lover]

17 hours ago, 00petar00 said:

I only want to bring up one thing that most players against exploits really don't like to hear. Bugs/exploits that need specific items or structures to be reproduced that won't ever happen in normal gameplay really doesn't affect players besides the waiting timer for boss to respawn and a lot of these players want to show off or are jealous because they aren't that good at speedrunning or killing bosses that someone using bug or exploit does it faster.

Bugs/exploits that everyone has no choice but to use should be fixed but every other instance where at least some players enjoy playing the game more using said bug/exploit it should stay in the game.

This is correct and there is nothing wrong with wanting to skip FW or any other boss that you don't find fun fighting the normal way.

No one yet has convinced me that players shouldn't be able to skip a fight in a sandbox game. Especially considering how some characters can dominate said fights so it is even more of a joke to say that every bug and exploit needs to be patched. 

1 no . If somebody use an exploit like the new toadstool exploit an a world this is literally cheating and u are running the server by using the exploit or bug and exploit like this should be removed because it’s ruining the game balance if every person in the server have a button to instantly skip a boss or kill his, this button should be for the batter of the game 

[Anis5240]

11 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

it’s ruining the game balance

This game has NEVER HAVE ANY BALANCE.

Wolfgang remained having 2x damage since DS era. His sanity downside barely matters.

Maxwell having 75 HP? Well no he didn't, beefalo helps keeping his HP intact. Same with Wes.

Wendy having weak damage? Still don't apply when she had Abigail out, and with a beefalo nothing matters anyway.

Stop saying stuff you don't have real big data to base on.

[dst_lover]

Just now, Anis5240 said:

This game has NEVER HAVE ANY BALANCE.

Wolfgang remained having 2x damage since DS era. His sanity downside barely matters.

Maxwell having 75 HP? Well no he didn't, beefalo helps keeping his HP intact. Same with Wes.

Wendy having weak damage? Still don't apply when she had Abigail out, and with a beefalo nothing matters anyway.

Stop saying stuff you don't have real big data to base on.

1 no 

2 u know his sanity downside is not the downside he have and just so you know yes it’s matter because when u play Wolfgang you will waste a lot of time just fighting nightmares and if u are fighting boss some times they can be dungeons if they outnumber you

3 riding beefalo is not easy most people doesn’t even know how to do it , u can say u can wear the champion crown to ignore the downside of Wolfgang but u know this is not free right ? this logic doesn’t make sense 

4 same as the 3 point 

5 and you are the one who have THE BIG DATA ?

 

[Szczuku]

12 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I'm here to change minds, not to have my mind changed. I know I'm right - all I have to do is convince one person for this thread to be successful.

Ain't no way you're unironically writing stuff like this and expecting people to respect your opinion

[DegenerateFurry]

17 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Ain't no way you're unironically writing stuff like this and expecting people to respect your opinion

What's wrong with a little honesty? People don't usually put their opinions out there and argue in favor of something because they're feeling particularly open to being persuaded otherwise. You're gonna have to try harder if you want to take a dig at me.

[Maxposting]

7 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

People don't usually put their opinions out there and argue in favor of something because they're feeling particularly open to being persuaded otherwise.

Then why bother in the first place? Like genuinely, what is the point for people to discuss stuff if they're not open to other ideas?

Why should others be open to your ideas if you aren't willing to consider you might be wrong? 

To me (might be wrong on this one) it feels like you're positioning yourself above those who disagree with you because you leapt to the conclusion that you must be definitely right about a barely-objective topic.

[DegenerateFurry]

11 minutes ago, Maxposting said:

Then why bother in the first place? Like genuinely, what is the point for people to discuss stuff if they're not open to other ideas?

Why should others be open to your ideas if you aren't willing to consider you might be wrong? 

To me (might be wrong on this one) it feels like you're positioning yourself above those who disagree with you because you leapt to the conclusion that you must be definitely right about a barely-objective topic.

You're acting like people never make threads on this forum with the goal of putting information out there to convince people of something they personally believe to be correct or factually true.

I don't know what the purpose of your game of pretend is, but there's a thread right now called "rollback on public servers that should be adjusted" that's a perfect example of exactly that behavior: saying something you think is true and showing your reasoning. The person who made it put forth their argument as to why the thing they believe to be true is the case because they want to convince other people (probably including the devs) that the rollback feature on Klei servers needs to be changed (and I personally agree with what they say in that thread). There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and it's normal human behavior, and only someone who's being absurdly disingenuous would claim otherwise. 

Another example: my old thread of "the Great Depths Worm should always be wet" in the beta forum, where I argued that since Depths Worms are always wet and the Great Depths Worm is just a big one, it should also be wet. I insisted on this and other people agreed en-masse, and now we've seen the Great Depths Worm be changed to be wet on release. I wasn't  gonna let someone persuade me that the Great Depths Worm shouldn't be wet when I made a thread that I felt was stating a fact. Why would I? That'd be nonsensical and nobody ever does that. The same's the case here. 

[Maxposting]

40 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Spoiler

You're acting like people never make threads on this forum with the goal of putting information out there to convince people of something they personally believe to be correct or factually true.

I don't know what the purpose of your game of pretend is, but there's a thread right now called "rollback on public servers that should be adjusted" that's a perfect example of exactly that behavior. The person who made it put forth their argument as to why the thing they believe to be true is the case because they want to convince other people (probably including the devs) that the rollback feature on Klei servers needs to be changed. There's absolutely wrong with that and it's normal human behavior, and only someone who's being absurdly disingenuous would claim otherwise. 

Another example: my old thread of "the Great Depths Worm should always be wet" in the beta forum, where I argued that since Depths Worms are always wet and the Great Depths Worm is just a big one, it should also be wet. I insisted on this and other people agreed en-masse, and now we've seen the Great Depths Worm be changed to be wet on release. I wasn't  gonna let someone persuade me that the Great Depths Worm shouldn't be wet when I made a thread that I felt was stating a fact. Why would I? That'd be nonsensical and nobody ever does that. The same's the case here.

What you have listed are suggestions which can, and should be challenged. People usually do not tend to object to those, as they often point to agreeable flaws (suggesting changes that don't negatively impact the majority) and end up bettering the game in most cases.

The case is not the same here, as you aren't suggesting a change to the game, but merely pushed back a reductive view to a rather long-term argument spanning threads. An argument stemming from suggestions about the game's exploits and whatnot.

To have a closed mind and then trying to "inform and convince" with merely arguments isn't helpful, as a really small group will be willing to challenge their ideas when you aren't willing to change yours.

[HowlVoid]

There are times where you just can't come to agree with the other person. Though there is still a reason you want to put your opinion out there, in case the devs read it. If there's a chance for an idea to pass into development but you disagree, nothing will occur in your favor if you shut up and keep it to yourself. You need to offer at least a little resistance.

The most important thing is to keep it civil and not to attack anyone directly. I know from experience from flying too close to the sun several times. 

I also know from experience some of you are as stubborn as I am so... some of us shouldn’t pretend like we readily make arguments with an open mind. 

[DegenerateFurry]

35 minutes ago, Maxposting said:

What you have listed are suggestions which can, and should be challenged. People usually do not tend to object to those, as they often point to agreeable flaws (suggesting changes that don't negatively impact the majority) and end up bettering the game in most cases.

The case is not the same here, as you aren't suggesting a change to the game, but merely pushed back a reductive view to a rather long-term argument spanning threads. An argument stemming from suggestions about the game's exploits and whatnot.

To have a closed mind and then trying to "inform and convince" with merely arguments isn't helpful, as a really small group will be willing to challenge their ideas when you aren't willing to change yours.

So, once again, you've just ignored every point I've made in favor of pretending that what I'm doing is somehow unique and different from what everyone else is doing.

I think we shouldn't reply to each other anymore. Nothing productive ever comes from it. I'll be stopping here and I invite you to do the same.