Can Woodie please use amulets in were form?

[W0l0l0]

Truth be told, I haven't tried Woodie much with the skill tree. I played him a lot after his first rework but sort of lost interest when I saw the lack of progression he has (and tried playing with lunar storms).

Wereforms are available day 1, and that makes them difficult to balance to keep them viable for late game. Thats why I believe he needs a way to get stronger as the game goes on (beyond skill trees).

Whilst the skill trees certainly added some amazing things, they didn't really add any way to compliment the wereforms with any equipment: you either ditch everything you have access to (save for jellybeans) and commit to the wereforms, or pretend they don't exist and play with your inventory. It's one or the other. And it's sort of put me off returning to him.

Amulets typically provide weak benefits, but with the wereforms they would be amazing!

 

Life Giving Amulet: regenerates health that is effectively 10 times higher on the moose (for 50 effective health every 30 seconds), not brilliant, but stacks with the passive regeneration and Jelly Beans for a lovely tanking strategy.

Magilumiecence: great in general, but serves as a simple later game upgrade for all forms.

Lazy Forager: allows Beaver to chop and collect, collection being it's main limiting factor.

Chilled Amulet: freezes enemies when taking damage, which is really efficient as stunlock prevention when in the moose form. I think this would be amazing vs hounds.

Nightmare amulet and construction amulet would certainly be less useful here, but I love that this makes the often overlooked red and blue amulets find a home.

 

I think this would be a really simple change for Woodie that would add a lot to play with.

I'd also like to suggest being able to change between wereforms like in the animated short, but I know that'd be a more major change.

What other ideas do you have that would add a bit more depth and interaction between Woodie and equipment? Let me know what you think either way.

[Balter]

Past.. you can equip it using a certain mod. A client mod to be exact which also allows you to use staffs in wereform

[arubaro]

Wont make much sense, the whole point of the forms is to only have access to their perks without items involved

[Mysterious box]

Not quite related but even after all this time I'll never understand why they put locks on his were affinities.

[W0l0l0]

On 8/23/2024 at 1:37 PM, arubaro said:

Wont make much sense, the whole point of the forms is to only have access to their perks without items involved

I agree to an extent. The lack of access to your own inventory is certainly the defining trait, but I don't think that means we shouldn't be able to equip items beforehand, or use items in unconventional ways instead. I'm not saying I want to be able to access my inventory in were form, only that I think amulets shouldn't fall off when entering those forms.

Especially with the extra abilities and power characters are getting nowadays.

[arubaro]

44 minutes ago, W0l0l0 said:

I agree to an extent. The lack of access to your own inventory is certainly the defining trait, but I don't think that means we shouldn't be able to equip items beforehand, or use items in unconventional ways instead. I'm not saying I want to be able to access my inventory in were form, only that I think amulets shouldn't fall off when entering those forms.

Especially with the extra abilities and power characters are getting nowadays.

Then we could say the same for helmets :/ i dont like exceptions without a really good reason. I get the benefits of some of them for certain forms but honestly it would be simply "you cant wear any item but amulets so enjoy wearing mag"

Goose already got good speed (and maybe future void flying) and moose got a lot of buffs, included speed and control in the charge plus life reg, making him a really good, fun and cheap option for a lot fights

Again, breaking a rule for just 1 kind of items isnt a good design imo

[MadMatt]

26 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Again, breaking a rule for just 1 kind of items isnt a good design imo

Tbh it's fine if it's aesthetically and thematically consistent, which amulets are. 

The Wereforms wearing helmets or body armor is thematically strange, and visually would look terrible. Amulets just fit better with a wereform since necklaces are one of the few accessories associated somewhat with werewolves, and visually would look pretty good on them.

I know it's personal taste but I feel giving the exception to amulets not only fulfills a very meaningful gameplay purpose, but also works aesthetically, so it'd be a overall positive change.

[arubaro]

3 minutes ago, MadMatt said:

fulfills a very meaningful gameplay purpose, but also works aesthetically, so it'd be a overall positive change.

Yes, having more speed... green amulet wont do anything, orange would be just effective during few seconds before you fill your inventory, purple would work for farming shadows but only if you chose the moon affinity, red could be useful for the moose... but the hp reg is ridiculously slow to make a difference, blue could be useful for summer but is designed to be only used for few seconds before unequiping and the freezing on hit buff sucks.... at the end all of this is just a suggestion made with shoehorn (srly? Necklace on werewolves are to precisely prevent the transformation not to increase the power) to have more speed in an already fast way of traveling and for a 90%tank with a dash...would be sad and cheap to remove the only "skill based" perk on the moose by not needing to time well when to use and stop the charge

No, you wont convince me that adding a non fitting suggestion for a set of items, which only few one would have even the tiniest and niche synergy, is a good idea. Is just a bland design

If you want to use a mag, be human woodie. His forms have a clearly downside and is not having access to any item

[W0l0l0]

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

orange would be just effective during few seconds before you fill your inventory

I don't think you understand. The Beaver sucks because you have to retrace your steps and collect everything, the orange gem would remove that so you could harvest quickly.

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

(srly? Necklace on werewolves are to precisely prevent the transformation not to increase the power)

What on earth are you talking about.

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

to have more speed in an already fast way of traveling and for a 90%tank with a dash...would be sad and cheap to remove the only "skill based" perk on the moose by not needing to time well when to use and stop the charge

By the time you reach ruins tech, other characters can stack magilumiecence and walking canes, so you still feel a movement speed penalty by comparison (depending on what you're comparing). Not to mention, you know, you're still in wereform with limited ways to interact and heal. You still have to manage the fuel of the amulet as well, so it doesn't break.

2 hours ago, arubaro said:

No, you wont convince me that adding a non fitting suggestion for a set of items, which only few one would have even the tiniest and niche synergy, is a good idea. Is just a bland design

How come they don't fit? As MadMatt mentioned, it's not off theme, and even creatures like Klaus use Live Giving Amulets. You haven't tried actually using any of these items in wereforms, and most of the amulets are barely used anyways. Talk about bland design. Are you suggesting that something needs to quite a hefty buff to be worth suggesting? I don't think thats the case at all. Plenty of small changes have been added with skill trees.

[arubaro]

5 hours ago, W0l0l0 said:

don't think you understand. The Beaver sucks because you have to retrace your steps and collect everything, the orange gem would remove that so you could harvest quickly.

And do you think that needing to change to human every few harvest would solve that? Also is his drawback compared to other gatherers. Not every character should be as good as others in every task

 

5 hours ago, W0l0l0 said:

What on earth are you talking about

The other user was talking about necklace being fitting because they are related to werewolves when that isnt true

5 hours ago, W0l0l0 said:

By the time you reach ruins tech, other characters can stack magilumiecence and walking canes, so you still feel a movement speed penalty by comparison (depending on what you're comparing). Not to mention, you know, you're still in wereform with limited ways to interact and heal. You still have to manage the fuel of the amulet as well, so it doesn't break

? You reach ruins tech at the same time that every other character. If you want to goose arround you sacrifice the inventory 

I dont see the point

5 hours ago, W0l0l0 said:

How come they don't fit? As MadMatt mentioned, it's not off theme, and even creatures like Klaus use Live Giving Amulets. You haven't tried actually using any of these items in wereforms, and most of the amulets are barely used anyways. Talk about bland design. Are you suggesting that something needs to quite a hefty buff to be worth suggesting? I don't think thats the case at all. Plenty of small changes have been added with skill trees.

It doesnt fit because the whole point is to dont use items! Then why moose cant hold a hammer or a sword to deal more damage??? Or wear a helmet???

Klei already buffed a lot the forms, why do you need magi other than removing what makes him special and to remove even more downsides?

[DegenerateFurry]

5 hours ago, W0l0l0 said:

I don't think you understand. The Beaver sucks because you have to retrace your steps and collect everything, the orange gem would remove that so you could harvest quickly.

What on earth are you talking about.

By the time you reach ruins tech, other characters can stack magilumiecence and walking canes, so you still feel a movement speed penalty by comparison (depending on what you're comparing). Not to mention, you know, you're still in wereform with limited ways to interact and heal. You still have to manage the fuel of the amulet as well, so it doesn't break.

How come they don't fit? As MadMatt mentioned, it's not off theme, and even creatures like Klaus use Live Giving Amulets. You haven't tried actually using any of these items in wereforms, and most of the amulets are barely used anyways. Talk about bland design. Are you suggesting that something needs to quite a hefty buff to be worth suggesting? I don't think thats the case at all. Plenty of small changes have been added with skill trees.

Just ignore him, he's being negative for the sake of it and hates QoL changes. Wereforms being able to use amulets would be situationally useful, with the most notable examples being the orange amulet on the beaver like you mentioned (it has a good amount of durability and would let you pick up a whole inventory of wood/etc up) and the life-giving amulet on the moose (since even slow regen would still be helpful for a tank that can dodge, but can't easily heal). 

Also, you're right that the amulets wouldn't be unfitting on wereforms. Klaus wears a life-giving amulet despite being even thiccer than the muscly hunkmoose, so I see no reason they'd not be able to fit. 

[Sacco]

woodie's wereforms with the right skills are kind of broken (except the goose)

Using amulets on the weremoose would make him even more broken, and i don't want to see more power creep in this game.

If you play with someone else amulets are useless tho, they can heal you or loot the things you chopped/mined.

 

[grm9]

33 minutes ago, Sacco said:

woodie's wereforms with the right skills are kind of broken

what does broken even mean considering that there's no definition of balance, it can't get objectively measured and the game doesn't start playing itself or make you practically unable to die after starting playing as that character

34 minutes ago, Sacco said:

If you play with someone else amulets are useless tho, they can heal you or loot the things you chopped/mined

you could let them do some thing that's more useful in comparison to that and you can't feed moose for healing, only souls and salves iirc

[Sacco]

22 minutes ago, grm9 said:

what does broken even mean considering that there's no definition of balance, it can't get objectively measured and the game doesn't start playing itself or make you practically unable to die after starting playing as that character

you could let them do some thing that's more useful in comparison to that and you can't feed moose for healing, only souls and salves iirc

there is no definition of balance, but it's obvious that a maxed weremoose is ver powerful, especially against planar enemies.

as of now almost every single character is too good, they can destroy bosses in literally a minute and can't die.

When you play together you can make the other teammate take some damage for you or they can instead use some useful items in the fight and you just think about kiting/tanking the boss.

[grm9]

19 minutes ago, Sacco said:

there is no definition of balance, but it's obvious that a maxed weremoose is ver powerful, especially against planar enemies

no, only slightly better in comparison to a wilson with thule or dread stone armor or hat and a 68 damage weapon, assuming that you won't need much healing and worse in case of planar because attacking was almost pointless if you didn't do 3rd hit and proccing a planar stun's less comfortable

19 minutes ago, Sacco said:

as of now almost every single character is too good, they can destroy bosses in literally a minute and can't die

maybe the standard changed in that case and they can't kill a boss after a minute unless you're talking about bosses like werepig and frostjaw but that's an issue with them being too simple and easy

20 minutes ago, Sacco said:

When you play together you can make the other teammate take some damage for you or they can instead use some useful items in the fight and you just think about kiting/tanking the boss

i meant that it's better to let another player do some thing that's more useful in comparison to picking items up near you if you can do that yourself through orange amulet 

[Sacco]

3 hours ago, grm9 said:

no, only slightly better in comparison to a wilson with thule or dread stone armor or hat and a 68 damage weapon, assuming that you won't need much healing and worse in case of planar because attacking was almost pointless if you didn't do 3rd hit and proccing a planar stun's less comfortable

maybe the standard changed in that case and they can't kill a boss after a minute unless you're talking about bosses like werepig and frostjaw but that's an issue with them being too simple and easy

i meant that it's better to let another player do some thing that's more useful in comparison to picking items up near you if you can do that yourself through orange amulet 

Weremoose has a charge attack, his dps is better than a wilson with a dark sword and has a 90% damage reduction just for 3 monster meat and 3 grass?! that's crazy because you can fight a lot of bosses too!

The standard changed, now a character is broken by default, and there are characters who are more broken than others, but lamost every single character is way too good.

Yes, it's better to wear the amulet, but it's wereforms are meant to have some downsides, yes, make werewoodie wear armors too at this point, make him use weapons and tools!

[grm9]

32 minutes ago, Sacco said:

Weremoose has a charge attack

it'sn't very useful for fighting any boss except BQ

32 minutes ago, Sacco said:

his dps is better than a wilson with a dark sword

slightly, worse if you didn't hit through 3rd hit

32 minutes ago, Sacco said:

has a 90% damage reduction just for 3 monster meat and 3 grass?!

and at the cost of being unable to use any items including those that increase hp, pan flute, a weather pain, a lazy explorer etc.

32 minutes ago, Sacco said:

The standard changed, now a character is broken by default, and there are characters who are more broken than others, but lamost every single character is way too good

maybe if every one's too good, being too good's the new standard and they're just average

32 minutes ago, Sacco said:

Yes, it's better to wear the amulet, but it's wereforms are meant to have some downsides

atm beaver's down side's being nearly useless because of needing to waste a lot of time on picking stuff up after transformation and that sucks

17 hours ago, arubaro said:

orange would be just effective during few seconds before you fill your inventory

you do realise that you can fit 300 logs into your inventory

17 hours ago, arubaro said:

purple would work for farming shadows but only if you chose the moon affinity

shadow affinity doesn't prevent you from attacking a nightmare, like bone helm

[abrocator]

Amulets for weremoose is the best idea that I’ve seen come from the forums btw (of course it’s been around for a while now). I don’t know if it originated here but it is very cool. 

7 hours ago, Sacco said:

woodie's wereforms with the right skills are kind of broken (except the goose)

Using amulets on the weremoose would make him even more broken, and i don't want to see more power creep in this game.

If you play with someone else amulets are useless tho, they can heal you or loot the things you chopped/mined.

 

If amulets were part of the rework or skill tree then certain skills like passive health regen wouldn’t be needed in the first place. You would trade skills for more strategic options.

Adding amulets wouldn’t mean having to keep all the current upsides as well. 

[Ridley]

On 8/23/2024 at 6:46 AM, W0l0l0 said:

Whilst the skill trees certainly added some amazing things, they didn't really add any way to compliment the wereforms with any equipment: you either ditch everything you have access to (save for jellybeans) and commit to the wereforms, or pretend they don't exist and play with your inventory. It's one or the other. And it's sort of put me off returning to him.

You don't commit to the wereforms or pretend they don't exist. You switch into and out of them as it best benefits you.

I also don't see a lot of mileage in being able to wear amulets except for the Magiluminescence, which probably becomes the only one people mess with. You could use Lazy Forager and werebeaver, or you could gnaw all the trees and double back as normal Woodie wearing the Lazy Forager. Then you could refill your Lazy Forager with Nightmare Fuel so it doesn't break.

I'm currently playing Woodie with the weregoose perks and having fun, but you could battle bosses with the weremoose form if you want something flashier. I think there is some youtube videos of Wigfrid buffs on weremoose that looked fun.

[ShadowDuelist]

I like the idea because it gives further customization options for the wereforms, and some kind of progress over time, but I also think they'd have to be buffed/changed in effects depending on the wereform. Otherwise the yellow amulet would be the most viable option 90% of the times.

On one hand I don't think they should lose durability while you use them transformed, since you can't really interact with them and the duration of the magi or the chilled amulet would be pathetic.
On the other hand some would have to get new uses if they don't have any (EG: green amulet extending the wereform duration by a lot). Life amulet could maybe increase the hp regen of the moose very slightly -to the point where it's probably not worth using as a moose- but provide instead a decent base regen to the goose and beaver (same as the current upgraded moose has).
I'm not really sure how to fix the orange amulet, it would allow you to pick up items up to your base inventory slots only and once it's full you can't do anything about it until you turn back to woodie. Maybe once its almost full it will use the last slot to create stacks of items, and drop the stack once it's complete? (and not pick up full stacks of items again, obviously, for as long as the transformation lasts)

 

[DegenerateFurry]

Funny idea: they make an iridescent amulet that can be worn by wereforms, extends wereform duration the same amount a full moon would, and makes non-wereform players (and only non-wereform players) have a mild freezing effect to their attacks (something like 3 hits to freeze a hound). 

[Sacco]

4 hours ago, grm9 said:

it'sn't very useful for fighting any boss except BQ

slightly, worse if you didn't hit through 3rd hit

and at the cost of being unable to use any items including those that increase hp, pan flute, a weather pain, a lazy explorer etc.

maybe if every one's too good, being too good's the new standard and they're just average

atm beaver's down side's being nearly useless because of needing to waste a lot of time on picking stuff up after transformation and that suck

you are going to hit the third hit most of the times, if not just skill issue.

not being able to use pan flutes or other thing is not a problem, weremoose can offset them, if you want a list ask me.

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Sacco said:

you are going to hit the third hit most of the times, if not just skill issue

there're scenarios that prevent you from doing that and even if you'll do 3rd hit, your dps'll end up being only like 5% higher in comparison to a wilson anim cancelling with a 68 damage weapon and lower in comparison to a wilson anim cancelling with a thule club assuming that amount of tentacles that'll spawn'll be around x0.2 the amount of hits and every tentacle'll deal damage

12 minutes ago, Sacco said:

not being able to use pan flutes or other thing is not a problem, weremoose can offset them, if you want a list ask me

ik that you can untransform to use pan flute on dfly or set up a thing with a flingo, untransform to heal, use charge to kill grumbles or go through them etc. but that still ends up wasting time

[MadMatt]

6 hours ago, grm9 said:

7 hours ago, Sacco said:

Weremoose has a charge attack

it'sn't very useful for fighting any boss except BQ

Erm....... toadstool???????

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, MadMatt said:

Erm....... toadstool???????

i forgot