How much should Wendy be changed by her skill tree?

[WenericMember]

As far as survivors go, Wendy is one of the most popular and the simplest - Wendy has Abigail, who deals AOE, and gives a damage buff for fighting alongside her, in exchange for less base damage. While the Sisturn and potions allow Abigail to better perform her role, that's pretty much all there is to Wendy.

For the record, I believe Wendy has one of the best designed & fun character kit's in the game, with a healthy balance between providing benefits and encouraging the player not to abuse them.

But in the context of the rest of the cast, Wendy definitely feels she's part of a bygone era, for better or for worse. While almost all of the characters  have a variety of crafts & perks applicable for different aspects of the game, Wendy's only perk that isn't tied to Abigail's is a reduced sanity drain. The two characters who used to be the most similar to her - Wigfrid and Willow, received focused skill trees that gave new focuses to their gameplay while providing a variety of utility perks.

The skill trees have found their roles being made specifically for the character, with Wolfgang having 23/26 skills being stat buffs, while Willow essentially became an entirely new character thanks to the ember system.

I'm not sure what kind of skill tree I would want Wendy to have. Her core combat loop is well designed enough touching it too much probably wouldn't be great, but I think she really needs a focus for her character other than her combat. 

I think generally, I hope whatever they come up with lean's into Wendy's natural supportive tendencies - Crowd Control, Hex, Telltale heart supplies,  being able to quickly accrew valuable resources like souls and silk, etc.

[gamehun20]

30 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

I'm not sure what kind of skill tree I would want Wendy to have. Her core combat loop is well designed enough touching it too much probably wouldn't be great, but I think she really needs a focus for her character other than her combat. 

Only thing i want for Abigail combat is maybe a second potion slot and being able to like tell Abigail to stand in a specific spot until i attack an enemy so Abigail could attack them from behind while i hit them from the front

[WenericMember]

9 minutes ago, gamehun20 said:

Only thing i want for Abigail combat is maybe a second potion slot and being able to like tell Abigail to stand in a specific spot until i attack an enemy so Abigail could attack them from behind while i hit them from the front

Yeah, I don't think Abigail herself needs many modifications, but something to make Abigail's kiting more accessible would be huge in smoothing her skill curve. It's probably be an AI buff like Wurt's merm's got. 

I think a second Abigail potion would be good only if We got some more diverse effects for Wendy's potions. there's currently only like 4 types, with 2 upgraded variants (Shield, Regen, Speed & Damage).

[Evelo]

Seeing as I am the only one who voted for (Wolfgang). I just prefer that sort of skill set/tree. New items/crafts via skillsets are stupid imo. Make that stuff baseline. Woodie's adds too much game changing things which I dislike. I detest Wigfrid and Willow's skillsets because of how dramatically they change the character instead of having that dramatic change baseline.

[goblinball]

I just want the pipspook scavenger hunt to be faster and for  potion stuff to be expanded. Those are easily the most forgettable parts of Wendy’s abilities imo

[Wormboi]

5 minutes ago, goblinball said:

I just want the pipspook scavenger hunt to be faster and for  potion stuff to be expanded. Those are easily the most forgettable parts of Wendy’s abilities imo

Potions are kinda mediocre tbh, theres only one way to get morning glories and the fact that you cant use more than one on abi makes them meh.

[goblinball]

11 minutes ago, Wormboi said:

Potions are kinda mediocre tbh, theres only one way to get morning glories and the fact that you cant use more than one on abi makes them meh

That’s what I’m saying! Farming morning glories is painfully slow and I only really use the potions when I’m fighting bq. I’d love for them to be buffed and for pipspooks to be faster. (Maybe a skill that gives you more morning glories per pipspook?)

[NPCMaxwell]

19 minutes ago, goblinball said:

I just want the pipspook scavenger hunt to be faster and for  potion stuff to be expanded. Those are easily the most forgettable parts of Wendy’s abilities imo

I would simply like the pipspooks mechanic to be expanded. (with still Wendy being exclusively being able to interact with them), although I sadly have no Wendy on my server I adore those little baby ghosts so much whenever they happen to appear. I just want them to be more then a single "find object, give object" thing.

[kroban]

31 minutes ago, goblinball said:

That’s what I’m saying! Farming morning glories is painfully slow and I only really use the potions when I’m fighting bq. I’d love for them to be buffed and for pipspooks to be faster. (Maybe a skill that gives you more morning glories per pipspook?)

IMO Klei should make it so Wendy can move or craft new tombs (creepy has hell but, that's Wendy lol), the biggest problem I have seen when I play with her and with friends that "main" her is that you either make your base close to a lot of tombs, or you have to travel for days whenever you want to get mourning glory. It ends up being a huge time investment for potions that are useless for like half the bosses in the game.

That or, maybe make the sisturn give mourning glory after flowers expire?

[Wormboi]

12 minutes ago, kroban said:

maybe make the sisturn give mourning glory after flowers expire?

Thats the thing that UNCOMP does, and it legibility makes potions more viable. (you can rack up a lot during the summer From everything spoiling faster)

[WenericMember]

8 hours ago, Evelo said:

Seeing as I am the only one who voted for (Wolfgang). I just prefer that sort of skill set/tree. New items/crafts via skillsets are stupid imo. Make that stuff baseline. Woodie's adds too much game changing things which I dislike. I detest Wigfrid and Willow's skillsets because of how dramatically they change the character instead of having that dramatic change baseline.

Cannot say I agree with that at all, Wolfgang's skill tree has nothing engaging int it to me personally, but It's cool to hear other opinions and I understand the sentiment.

[Gashzer]

Skills to allow abigail to possess mobs and buff the mob that abigail possesses.

Abigail also keeps her AoE attack while possessing any mob so at the very least the mob acts like an extra health bar for abigail.

• If abigail possesses a rabbit, she naturally attracts all other rabbits to follow her allowing abigail to instant kill them all.
• Possessing a pig allows abigail to chop trees but at a much faster rate, isn't scared of the dark like normal pig. 
• Hound abigail can move faster, eat meat to heal hound form. Ice/fire boosts abigails AoE  to have a freeze/fire elemental effect.
• Tallbird abigail can produce one tallbird egg in any empty nest.
• Gobbler abigail can quickly harvest all nearby berry bushes to give to wendy
• Final skill point on a branch could allow abigail to "haunt" boss drop items like dfly scale to transform temporarily into a spectral smaller weaker version of the boss as a follower, it consumes the boss drop tho.

[WenericMember]

23 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Skills to allow abigail to possess mobs and buff the mob that abigail possesses.

Abigail also keeps her AoE attack while possessing any mob so at the very least the mob acts like an extra health bar for abigail.

• If abigail possesses a rabbit, she naturally attracts all other rabbits to follow her allowing abigail to instant kill them all.
• Possessing a pig allows abigail to chop trees but at a much faster rate, isn't scared of the dark like normal pig. 
• Hound abigail can move faster, eat meat to heal hound form. Ice/fire boosts abigails AoE  to have a freeze/fire elemental effect.
• Tallbird abigail can produce one tallbird egg in any empty nest.
• Gobbler abigail can quickly harvest all nearby berry bushes to give to wendy
• Final skill point on a branch could allow abigail to "haunt" boss drop items like dfly scale to transform temporarily into a spectral smaller weaker version of the boss as a follower, it consumes the boss drop tho.

Interesting Ideas, if it does end up something like this I hope Wendy gets the ability to create haunt effects while alive.

That said, I personally hope if she gets a new mechanic it's less completely reliant on Abigail - let it be something Wendy does.

[Gashzer]

5 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Interesting Ideas, if it does end up something like this I hope Wendy gets the ability to create haunt effects while alive.

That said, I personally hope if she gets a new mechanic it's less completely reliant on Abigail - let it be something Wendy does.

I think the Willow skilltree layout is the best approach for Wendy. Having a sister branch and her own personal Wendy branch.

[AliceShiki]

I'd like more ways (or at least one more way) to get Mourning Glories... Specifically, a way that wasn't wiki-dependent.

Something like making the sisturn passively generate Mourning Glories over time would be cool.

Other than that, I'd be fine with plain stat buffs and the like. I like Wendy as is.

[Evelo]

5 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Something like making the sisturn passively generate Mourning Glories over time would be cool.

Other than that, I'd be fine with plain stat buffs and the like. I like Wendy as is.

Aww turning petals into Mourning Glories sounds really cute actually.

[douan33]

She needs some QoL updates in my opinion,

1. Just like Wurt's merms Abigail should be able to back off and regenerate health when she is at VERY low health
2. Abigail now stands next to Wendy when it is dark (but they will probably add increased light aura as a part of her skill tree)

You can now assign a potion to Abigail's flower and it will automatically be used when the flower is potionless during rage mode

 

Other than that;

1. For shadow affinity: Abigail should be able to scare shadow monsters (so it will be a less of a hassle to fight multiple terrorbeaks, deal with hands but she won't damage them)
2. For lunar affinity: Abigail should be able to do some weak things like idk do more damage on full moons (lunar affinities are usually disappointing so I'm joking here)

But realistically half of the skill tree will be something like "Abigail is faster, slightly faster, much faster" / "Abigail's range is wider, slightly wider, much wider"

[Siren11]

Realistically, I think the “Abigail” part of Wendy’s skill tree will focus mostly on stat buffs, with the possibility of new potions and/or the ability to apply multiple potions simultaneously. Easier access to Mourning Glories would also be great. Giving Abigail more haunt/possession abilities would be really interesting, but I’m not sure how that would actually work in game.

I’m hoping the rest of her skill tree will give Wendy more perks of her own to expand her gameplay and make her feel a bit more well-rounded. I could potentially get behind a secondary mechanic if it was fun and well-designed, but Wendy is already such a good character.

[WenericMember]

7 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

Realistically, I think the “Abigail” part of Wendy’s skill tree will focus mostly on stat buffs, with the possibility of new potions and/or the ability to apply multiple potions simultaneously. Easier access to Mourning Glories would also be great. Giving Abigail more haunt/possession abilities would be really interesting, but I’m not sure how that would actually work in game.

I’m hoping the rest of her skill tree will give Wendy more perks of her own to expand her gameplay and make her feel a bit more well-rounded. I could potentially get behind a secondary mechanic if it was fun and well-designed, but Wendy is already such a good character.

99% agree with you, but I hope Abigail gets some sort of AI improvements against bosses like Merms did.

[Siren11]

2 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

99% agree with you, but I hope Abigail gets some sort of AI improvements against bosses like Merms did.

Like what sort of AI improvements? I’m not super up to date on Wurt or her skill tree — do you want Abigail to “dodge” more or retreat at low health? Abigail is slower than the Merms, so I’m not how well it would work if speed is a factor. Wendy players also tend to be very specific with Abigail’s placement during fights and I worry that any “AI improvements” would mess that up (plus placing Abigail correctly and kiting for both Wendy and Abigail is a lot of the fun of playing Wendy imo). But I think there are probably ways that Klei could improve Abigail’s AI with feedback from experienced Wendy players.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, Siren11 said:

Like what sort of AI improvements? I’m not super up to date on Wurt or her skill tree — do you want Abigail to “dodge” more or retreat at low health? Abigail is slower than the Merms, so I’m not how well it would work if speed is a factor. Wendy players also tend to be very specific with Abigail’s placement during fights and I worry that any “AI improvements” would mess that up (plus placing Abigail correctly and kiting for both Wendy and Abigail is a lot of the fun of playing Wendy imo). But I think there are probably ways that Klei could improve Abigail’s AI with feedback from experienced Wendy players.

Dodge more probably, it would make Vigor Mortis more useful at any rate, but there's probably other ways to do it. Just something to Smooth out Wendy's skill curve compared to other players.

True, but the thing about the AI being in a skill tree mean that if it does affect those strats, experienced players can just not take the skill.

[Siren11]

7 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Dodge more probably, it would make Vigor Mortis more useful at any rate, but there's probably other ways to do it. Just something to Smooth out Wendy's skill curve compared to other players.

If Abigail got a dodge, I think maybe a “teleport dodge” (kinda like how nightmare creatures move) would be best. It would account for her speed and makes sense for a ghost, imo.

7 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

True, but the thing about the AI being in a skill tree mean that if it does affect those strats, experienced players can just not take the skill.

This is true as long as it’s a standalone skill or the end of a branch. If it’s in the middle, then it can be problematic.