So, the new cave shadow update speculations/questions

[NPCMaxwell]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

I mean there’s a narrative that can easily be spun into that too, mobs or resources that grew naturally on the surface would now have to find a way to adapt or perish in the caves, that could end up doing really wacky stuff, such as for example: Imagine if Beefalo who lived on the Surface and ate surface food, now had to find things in caves to eat to survive.

Klei’s new night vision fruit is actually an excellent example, the survivors are scavenging for food anywhere they can find it, they try a new fruit and Wolfgang ends up going into a creepy animation.

Now imagine animals that had a environment they were used to knowing how to survive in, and then suddenly their thrown into a new environment or their environment changed with new weather.

Its like the Lunar Hail and Moonstorms, this doesn’t really cause any actual impact to the world AROUND you… and that’s just not even slightly how things work in the real world…

If it started raining Acid, we’d learn to build acid proof shelters, we would preserve our wildlife by trying to shelter their habitats.

Flora & Fauna would adapt to their new environment, or they will Perish.

exactly, why I would love this so much, creating more cave-versions for our mobs, along maybe with cave-adapted versions of surface plants too, adapted to darkness and different soil. ACID-RAIN-ADAPTED plants etc. Or, how you suggested, the ability of the survivors to shelter the new cave inhabitants if they can't adapt by themselves or maybe players even "selecting" which kind of flora / fauna they would want to preserve.

(in longterm seen, also in regards to a DST sequel one day, I would love players to be able to selectively breed species to make them adapt more to their willing, similar to the different "flavours" of domesticated beefalo, but with a more in-depth mechanic and impact on the rest of the ecosystem. Or in general players impact on the ecosystem going along with making the hostile and non hostile creatures adapt to the changes you trigger bit by bit (so they have a chance of not dying out by your activity). )

(And honestly I also wish the added moon related weather was not just added as a player-impacting annoyance but actually also damaged the other creatures and plants, too. I don't like their general immunity to something that apparently had to be "triggered" before and that they truly shouldn't be naturally "adapted" to. Thanks for pointing it out once more. I still have them activated from day 1 but even then I refuse to imagine the surrounding environment simply being "immune" to it.)

[Mike23Ua]

Klei’s design choices are… bizarre to say the very least, first they design lunar hail, they intend that to damage and harm and even kill off small surface mobs like grass geckos, then the Megabase and/or animal farm enjoyers cry that their gecko pens are dying out so they make them immune to lunar hail .. it’s all just so wishy-washy to me.

It really does feel like they design content updates based strictly on positive/negative reactions to the updates.  
 

Meanwhile I’m from the 80’s I remember watching animated Tv shows where if something as simple as a tiny little rose was to be grown in an underground cave system near a strange underground River, that plant could mutate into a gigantic angry boss.

We see this narrative briefly in dst too, you see Charlie’s roses starting to coil up around the florid gate, or maxwells statues, I’d imagine that if a rose had to grow near a Nitre filled pond where acid fell from the caves above that the rose would change in appearance, it would probably grow larger, it would have holes in its petals where acid ate through until it learned to “harden” its shell to protect from the rain, it would probably have Brightshade like vines that extend from it and coil up the underground cave pillars…

If you need an example- Arkham Asylums Poison Ivy section after she’s been injected with the Titan virus.

Its not just tiny little changes, it’s not just slightly angrier versions of bats.. this is like full scale “I’m taking over this entire city” type of changes that should be happening…

and when it comes to DST I feel like in its current state of content updates, we just don’t have that.. maybe we can never have that, I don’t know..

All I know is that after I woke up some angry ancient alien sentipede bugs, that’s been asleep for centuries they should probably be taking back over their environment, and that would include resources, and mobs in biomes Outside of the Archives.

These things would likely be “hungry” and would slither about through the caves searching for Power Sources, maybe they gain power from eating Slurtle Dens???

And because they had been asleep for so long… Slurtles were able to Over-Populate.

Its like a shed that has a few spiderwebs in it, it’ll catch and eat flies and roaches, until those spiders die or end up having their homes destroyed.

If you take a broom and knock down all the spider webs and spray bug repellent you remove the spiders, but now the flies that were being caught in their webs now have free reign over the area.

it’s the cycle of life.

its Adapt, Or Perish..

[NPCMaxwell]

7 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Klei’s design choices are… bizarre to say the very least, first they design lunar hail, they intend that to damage and harm and even kill off small surface mobs like grass geckos, then the Megabase and/or animal farm enjoyers cry that their gecko pens are dying out so they make them immune to lunar hail .. it’s all just so wishy-washy to me.

It really does feel like they design content updates based strictly on positive/negative reactions to the updates.  
 

Meanwhile I’m from the 80’s I remember watching animated Tv shows where if something as simple as a tiny little rose was to be grown in an underground cave system near a strange underground River, that plant could mutate into a gigantic angry boss.

We see this narrative briefly in dst too, you see Charlie’s roses starting to coil up around the florid gate, or maxwells statues, I’d imagine that if a rose had to grow near a Nitre filled pond where acid fell from the caves above that the rose would change in appearance, it would probably grow larger, it would have holes in its petals where acid ate through until it learned to “harden” its shell to protect from the rain, it would probably have Brightshade like vines that extend from it and coil up the underground cave pillars…

If you need an example- Arkham Asylums Poison Ivy section after she’s been injected with the Titan virus.

Its not just tiny little changes, it’s not just slightly angrier versions of bats.. this is like full scale “I’m taking over this entire city” type of changes that should be happening…

and when it comes to DST I feel like in its current state of content updates, we just don’t have that.. maybe we can never have that, I don’t know..

All I know is that after I woke up some angry ancient alien sentipede bugs, that’s been asleep for centuries they should probably be taking back over their environment, and that would include resources, and mobs in biomes Outside of the Archives.

These things would likely be “hungry” and would slither about through the caves searching for Power Sources, maybe they gain power from eating Slurtle Dens???

And because they had been asleep for so long… Slurtles were able to Over-Populate.

Its like a shed that has a few spiderwebs in it, it’ll catch and eat flies and roaches, until those spiders die or end up having their homes destroyed.

If you take a broom and knock down all the spider webs and spray bug repellent you remove the spiders, but now the flies that were being caught in their webs now have free reign over the area.

it’s the cycle of life.

its Adapt, Or Perish..

I hope Klei is at least taking notes for in case the consider a sequel to DST to include this, also your impact destroying an ecosystems balance is actually what would make a survival game come to its logical conclusion if you want to make it lifelike and still keep the fantasy aspect. You can still exeggerate in a hillarious comical / dark fantasy way.

(I am a 90s child but I love the tropes you mention, since I grew up with them, I also know them as parts of some of my favourite childhood / teenage age cartoons (granted I also adore fandoms that "belong" to an older generation too so I am no stranger to those tropes in general) so they are not that "oldfashioned" to not be used anymore :3 But Klei indeed seems to go the "this-is-popular-among-userbase-so-we-let-them-vote-on-everything-and-change-no-matter-if-it-fits-together-or-not" route from what I hear you point out a lot. :/ I mean....I am more of the person who loves pre-made video games in comparison, that are basically "finished" or only slightly changed when I buy them (or in the case of DS receive new more or less independant DLCs). I heard DS also had community influence in it, but to me it still fits together in contrast to DSTs updates stuff. (but then I can't tell too much how it changed due to my almost 10 years absence from DST. I can only tell from looking at old update patch notes and stuff being referred to.) 

I kind of think the CLOSEST the DS got to this "mutated / hostile new lifeform taking over" and saying "all your bases are belong to us" (lol sorry for writing this), is what brightshade does (if only it could spread more!), and how something like Aporcalypse does to the world (OK I doubt they will add an aporcalypse equivalent to DST but I can have hopes and dreams right? I would probably even grow to like DST almost as much as DS if the shadow / moon thing would lead to an actual apocalyptic mass extinction causing almost inenventible destruction that players have to adapt to and have the other creatures and plants and so on adapt to IF they want to save part of their world. I don't care if it would be soooooooooooooooooooo lategame that people can enjoy their bases until they have terraformed the whole world before this kicks in, as long as I can toggle it to happen earlier.)

[Keknutui]

42 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Дизайнерский выбор Klei ... мягко говоря, странный, сначала они проектируют lunar hail, намереваясь наносить урон и даже убивать мелких наземных мобов, таких как травяные гекконы, затем любители Megabase и / или animal farm кричат, что их загоны с гекконами вымирают, поэтому они делают их невосприимчивыми к лунному граду .. для меня все это так расплывчато.

Действительно, кажется, что они разрабатывают обновления контента, основываясь исключительно на положительных / отрицательных реакциях на обновления.  
 

Между тем, я родом из 80-х, я помню, как смотрел анимационные телешоу, в которых, если бы что-то такое простое, как крошечная роза, было выращено в подземной системе пещер рядом со странной подземной рекой, это растение могло мутировать в гигантского злого босса.

Мы также вкратце видим это повествование в летнее время, вы видите розы Чарли, начинающие обвиваться вокруг флоридских ворот, или статуи Максвелла, я бы предположил, что если бы розе пришлось расти рядом с прудом, наполненным селитрой, куда из пещер сверху попадала кислота, роза изменилась бы внешне, она, вероятно, стала бы больше, в лепестках у нее были бы дырки, через которые кислота проедала бы их, пока она не научилась “затвердевать” своей оболочкой для защиты от дождя, и так далее. вероятно, у него были бы похожие на яркую тень виноградные лозы, которые тянутся от него и обвивают колонны подземной пещеры…

Если вам нужен пример - раздел Arkham Asylums Poison Ivy после того, как ей ввели вирус Titan.

Это не просто крошечные изменения, это не просто более злые версии bats.. это как полномасштабные изменения типа “Я захватываю весь этот город”, которые должны произойти…

и когда дело доходит до летнего времени, я чувствую, что при нынешнем состоянии обновлений контента у нас просто нет этого .. может быть, у нас никогда этого не будет, я не знаю..

Все, что я знаю, это то, что после того, как я разбудил нескольких злобных древних инопланетных жуков-сентипед, которые спали столетиями, им, вероятно, следует вернуть себе контроль над окружающей средой, и это будет включать ресурсы и мобов в биомах за пределами Архивов.

Эти существа, вероятно, были бы “голодны” и ползали бы по пещерам в поисках источников энергии, может быть, они получают энергию, поедая логова Слуртла???

И потому, что они так долго спали… Slartles смогли перенаселиться.

Это похоже на сарай, в котором есть несколько паутин, они будут ловить и поедать мух и тараканов, пока эти пауки не умрут или их дома не будут разрушены.

Если взять метлу, сбить всю паутину и распылить средство от насекомых, вы удаляете пауков, но теперь мухи, попавшие в их паутину, могут свободно летать по территории.

это жизненный цикл.

адаптируйся или погибни..

As for the moon hail, they could add a way to protect areas or stop it with a device that requires, say, a shard from a champion every 100-200 days and its recipe drops exclusively from a Garbage Werepig after killing champions. They would have returned the damage of the moon hail and added meaning to killing the Scrappy Werepig. I just think if we get a recipe for columns to protect against boulders from shadow faults from a nightmarish werepig, then what prevents us from getting from moon hail from a garbage werepig?

And I remembered that in Wagstaff's note there were some mobs that could turn into moon versions like geckos

[SapoLover]

On 8/3/2024 at 6:03 PM, -Variant said:

Spoiler

Please don't be new biomes, please don't be new biomes, please don't be new biomes.

New biomes are awesome, don't get me wrong, but that's not what caves need. They need their absurd amount of EMPTY repeat biomes and endless horrible generation to be given love first.

It's so much easier to just add new flashy stuff than to go back and give older things love and I fear DST struggles with that a lot as is. I'd 100% want some of the actual problems with existing caves to be touched up before they go and add new stuff.

 

Of course I'm obviously expecting new stuff but I hope it's not all congealed into a self sustained bubble and we actually get some much needed changes to the rest of the caves.

 

I mean, one thing doesn't make the other impossible and could even be the same. Either they make new biomes to replace a few of the pointless copies of the older ones. Or they can rework something with zero interest like the bat biome into something unrecognizable making it effectively a new biome. I just hope that as you say, the new content isn't isolated in a tiny corner.

[wormwood123]

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

It really does feel like they design content updates based strictly on positive/negative reactions to the updates.  

As any good developers would... why add something people dont like? i get its meant to be "uncompromising" but like if people reeeeally dont like something then they dont like it for a reason.. i'd bet good money you'd complain if it was in the game...

[NPCMaxwell]

3 minutes ago, wormwood123 said:

As any good developers would... why add something people dont like? i get its meant to be "uncompromising" but like if people reeeeally dont like something then they dont like it for a reason.. i'd bet good money you'd complain if it was in the game...

I suppose it was more like: Designing content updates, then removing something again, instead of introducing an optional toggle. (At least that's how I read this. But then I may be biased since I only know this issue from having READ about it, since I have barely seen the changes first-hand other then returning after ~ 9 years and finding a completely different DST with millions of new content and lore. So maybe it is a bit exeggerated to say Klei designs ONLY based on reactions and NEVER give people a choice to handle something by toggling it.)