Feeling tired about ancient fuelweaver

[Mysterious box]

On 8/8/2024 at 9:27 PM, gaymime said:

nintendo is so well known for this that there have been quite a few people complaining that they can't enjoy the games because it hurts them to think of people who aren't as good as them being able to also play these games. as an example mariocart 8 literally has an option for smart-steering and auto accelerate. so, nintendo does both and they are wildly successful all the same.

Actually most people give nintendo crap for doing easy mode wrong like super mario wonder making Yoshi easy mode rather than making easy mode a actual mode so people can experience the game normally as their favorite characters regardless of character choice or when they implement secretive punishments for using mechanics as they felt was a "easy mode" of sorts in my experience most people don't have a issue with a easy mode so long as it's a setting however when it's built in as a in universe game mechanic it gives the implication that it's the "intended" way to play and that can rub people the wrong way on both sides of the fence.

 

On 8/8/2024 at 9:27 PM, gaymime said:

improvement is legitimate it just should not be the sole singular answer for every single player in a game that is structured in a way that encourages multiple solutions to any given problem.

Technically Klei did give multiple options on how to fight fuel weaver. 

[gaymime]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Actually most people give nintendo crap for doing easy mode wrong like super mario wonder making Yoshi easy mode rather than making easy mode a actual mode so people can experience the game normally as their favorite characters regardless of character choice or when they implement secretive punishments for using mechanics as they felt was a "easy mode" of sorts in my experience most people don't have a issue with a easy mode so long as it's a setting however when it's built in as a in universe game mechanic it gives the implication that it's the "intended" way to play and that can rub people the wrong way on both sides of the fence.

 

Technically Klei did give multiple options on how to fight fuel weaver. 

nintendo has done both and people have had strong opinions about both. i will say though, smw is a pretty interesting comparison though! i saw several people talking about how they would still play yoshi(even as a paracharacter) because yoshi is their favourite which is a sentiment that have been treated as a failing in this thread by a few posters and i thiiiiiink it might have been polygon that had one of their writers talk about picking nabbit(please bear with me this was a while ago) and while disappointed wasn't actually that upset and just picked a different character no fuss no muss for their personal play sessions

(also as an aside i totally understand why yoshi would be chosen, he is both the face of the "all-access" games that nintendo releases AND it pre-emptivey resolves a problem that would arise when playable yoshi could transform but ridable yoshi could not. it was pretty clever if you are someone who has been around in the fandom for a long time even if it doesnt make as much sense to someone who is newer or more casual or who is really keen on this character)

 

klei has, i am sure. we aren't talking about if klei gave any other solutions however we are talking about a subset of people in this thread not offering any advice other than get good/be good. a few people have agreed with op's sentiment and a few posters have given good advice to try and help op but a notable amount have not and seem intent on trying to double down on the idea that skill is the solution and not creativity or puzzle-solving or having kit that a mid-level player could get or even out-of-the-box exploitation. the op specifically said that they hit a wall because they felt that, as a mid-level player, they didn't have the raw skill despite plenty of set-up to bolster them and despite doing the fight multiple times. they said that they were mentally exhausted by not being able to overcome fw without being a high-level player and they felt that they were not alone in this sentiment which the group i am referring to took as proof of laziness and an unwillingness to do even simple things instead of recognizing their own skill-level is not the universal standard and what they find easy to do isn't necessarily something that -is- actually easy.

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, gaymime said:

nintendo has done both and people have had strong opinions about both. i will say though, smw is a pretty interesting comparison though! i saw several people talking about how they would still play yoshi(even as a paracharacter) because yoshi is their favourite which is a sentiment that have been treated as a failing in this thread by a few posters and i thiiiiiink it might have been polygon that had one of their writers talk about picking nabbit(please bear with me this was a while ago) and while disappointed wasn't actually that upset and just picked a different character no fuss no muss for their personal play sessions

People myself included have used yoshi but it wasn't that people were boycotting him. They were upset that you weren't allowed to have a proper experience with yoshi despite how popular he is I imagine the polygon person your talking about likely felt the same with Nabbit all people wanted was a option to play Yoshi without him being locked to easy mode.

10 minutes ago, gaymime said:

(also as an aside i totally understand why yoshi would be chosen, he is both the face of the "all-access" games that nintendo releases AND it pre-emptivey resolves a problem that would arise when playable yoshi could transform but ridable yoshi could not. it was pretty clever if you are someone who has been around in the fandom for a long time even if it doesnt make as much sense to someone who is newer or more casual or who is really keen on this character)

I mean technically yoshi has been ridable while transformed in the past in his old games I think it was more so a call back to how Yoshi was immortal in his older games as well as games where he teams up with Mario.

11 minutes ago, gaymime said:

klei has, i am sure. we aren't talking about if klei gave any other solutions however we are talking about a subset of people in this thread not offering any advice other than get good/be good. a few people have agreed with op's sentiment and a few posters have given good advice to try and help op but a notable amount have not and seem intent on trying to double down on the idea that skill is the solution and not creativity or puzzle-solving or having kit that a mid-level player could get or even out-of-the-box exploitation. the op specifically said that they hit a wall because they felt that, as a mid-level player, they didn't have the raw skill despite plenty of set-up to bolster them and despite doing the fight multiple times. they said that they were mentally exhausted by not being able to overcome fw without being a high-level player and they felt that they were not alone in this sentiment which the group i am referring to took as proof of laziness and an unwillingness to do even simple things instead of recognizing their own skill-level is not the universal standard and what they find easy to do isn't necessarily something that -is- actually easy.

I don't know if they're still in the thread or if this has been recommended but perhaps another idea op could use is Wurt as the merms do quite well against fuel weaver.

[gaymime]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

People myself included have used yoshi but it wasn't that people were boycotting him. They were upset that you weren't allowed to have a proper experience with yoshi despite how popular he is I imagine the polygon person your talking about likely felt the same with Nabbit all people wanted was a option to play Yoshi without him being locked to easy mode.

I mean technically yoshi has been ridable while transformed in the past in his old games I think it was more so a call back to how Yoshi was immortal in his older games as well as games where he teams up with Mario.

I don't know if they're still in the thread or if this has been recommended but perhaps another idea op could use is Wurt as the merms do quite well against fuel weaver.

which is what it is. some people wanted what you wanted. that was never contested in any way shape or form.

yes, but do consider every transformation for ridable yoshi is its own unique set of codes, animations, rigging, effect on the world and checks so that he can be ridden by other characters and not have them glitch out or look broken or escape the intended bounds of play. this is not something the dev team would be focusing on since it eats up lots of valuable resources for no payoff(and potentially negative payoff since the variants would have to have to be accounted for and nullified in gameplay lest they give players an unreasonable advantage to the point of skewing the meta). tldr? if regular yoshi gets to transform then why not ridable yoshi? then there is 2-4 extra months of development for something that didnt actually need worked on.

as for the immortality that is what i am getting at. in many of his older titles it was difficult or even impossible to kill yoshi, it is now so much part of him that it makes logical sense that he'd be the character that would be best suited to "easy" mode, this also gives older players a very easy way to figure out who is the best character for a younger player without having to fiddle around with customization features when taking turns or having both the older and younger be forced to use easy mode at the same time. it isnt perfect but it is practical and falls in line with what people would expect from a company who caters to small children to do. this all being said this topic is falling out of the perview of the thread now and probably should be taken to pms if you still want to talk about it or dropped if you are satisfied

they did say they were a maxwell player so i think they might be keen on advice that would be relevant to maxwell

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, gaymime said:

which is what it is. some people wanted what you wanted. that was never contested in any way shape or form.

yes, but do consider every transformation for ridable yoshi is its own unique set of codes, animations, rigging, effect on the world and checks so that he can be ridden by other characters and not have them glitch out or look broken or escape the intended bounds of play. this is not something the dev team would be focusing on since it eats up lots of valuable resources for no payoff(and potentially negative payoff since the variants would have to have to be accounted for and nullified in gameplay lest they give players an unreasonable advantage to the point of skewing the meta). tldr? if regular yoshi gets to transform then why not ridable yoshi? then there is 2-4 extra months of development for something that didnt actually need worked on.

as for the immortality that is what i am getting at. in many of his older titles it was difficult or even impossible to kill yoshi, it is now so much part of him that it makes logical sense that he'd be the character that would be best suited to "easy" mode, this also gives older players a very easy way to figure out who is the best character for a younger player without having to fiddle around with customization features when taking turns or having both the older and younger be forced to use easy mode at the same time. it isnt perfect but it is practical and falls in line with what people would expect from a company who caters to small children to do. this all being said this topic is falling out of the perview of the thread now and probably should be taken to pms if you still want to talk about it or dropped if you are satisfied

Most people weren't hung up on the transformation aspect it was the immortal aspect as it dimished the experience for people who enjoy yoshi even in the older games where yoshi was immortal there was a still a punishment for failure and without that punishment enjoyment is lost the simple solution nintendo should have done is more what they did with spiderman where they made a setting to toggle immortality so everyone could equally enjoy the game in their own way regardless of skill level like imagine if instead they gave spiderman a specific suit you had to wear in order to play on easy mode.

I'll end this part of it here since it is off topic but for the on topic part: 

6 minutes ago, gaymime said:

they did say they were a maxwell player so i think they might be keen on advice that would be relevant to maxwell

Did they try the brightshade staff?

[gaymime]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Most people weren't hung up on the transformation aspect it was the immortal aspect as it dimished the experience for people who enjoy yoshi even in the older games where yoshi was immortal there was a still a punishment for failure and without that punishment enjoyment is lost the simple solution nintendo should have done is more what they did with spiderman where they made a setting to toggle immortality so everyone could equally enjoy the game in their own way regardless of skill level like imagine if instead they gave spiderman a specific suit you had to wear in order to play on easy mode.

I'll end this part of it here since it is off topic but for the on topic part: 

Did they try the brightshade staff?

not that i know of but two other people suggested that

[Mysterious box]

Just now, gaymime said:

not that i know of but two other people suggested that

I see honestly that would probably be the best bet for them assuming they absolutely don't want to use the celestial portal at least. I imagine there's probably other solutions but at least no others are coming to me at the moment.

[abrocator]

On 8/4/2024 at 12:10 AM, arubaro said:

Back in my day, videogames didnt even have save points or were limited by passwords you wont by beating the levels, now videogames even advice you to save the game because you might be beaten

Back in my day some videogames had “permadeath” after losing all your lives. Because if it didn’t you would beat the game in three hours.

And your parents weren’t gonna buy you two videogames a week.

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, abrocator said:

Back in my day some videogames had “permadeath” after losing all your lives. Because if it didn’t you would beat the game in three hours.

And your parents weren’t gonna buy you two videogames a week.

Some of them like how now there are 6h games without permadeath...