Feeling tired about ancient fuelweaver

[grm9]

Just now, gaymime said:

ok, so back to "get good" with the added caveat of "but also already be good yesterday"

no, you don't need skill to spam spells when playing as maxwell, the boss won't even be able to reach you if you spam shadow prison and you can tank ranged attacks

[lowercase skye]

If you're ok with swapping characters at the portal, I'd recommend playing Wigfrid with her elding spear. It lets you teleport out of the bone cage for free, and her battle songs means less time spent thinking about stat management and more time taking care of woven shadows. Fuelweaver is a boss I've never been able to have fun with over years and years of fights, but just switching to Wigfrid makes it go way smoother.

[gaymime]

3 minutes ago, finn from human said:

If you're ok with swapping characters at the portal, I'd recommend playing Wigfrid with her elding spear. It lets you teleport out of the bone cage for free, and her battle songs means less time spent thinking about stat management and more time taking care of woven shadows. Fuelweaver is a boss I've never been able to have fun with over years and years of fights, but just switching to Wigfrid makes it go way smoother.

gee, i havent played wigfrid since before her refresh, is it really that strong?

[lowercase skye]

14 minutes ago, gaymime said:

gee, i havent played wigfrid since before her refresh, is it really that strong?

When uncharged, it's high damage + free dash attack that doesn't lower durability + electrical damage, and when charged it's higher damage + dash attack that REPAIRS durability + 20% increased movement speed + electrical damage. It's suuuper powerful, even more so than rift gear when charged, but I also think a regular uncharged one would help out a lot just because of the high damage and ability to dash out of the bone cage.

[FluffyBun]

Just cage bro

or skip him, kill CC, and come back with brightshade staves

11 hours ago, gaymime said:

please explain how you expect someone who isn't good enough to beat fw to be able to beat celestial? it feels like someone says they cannot spell a word and you suggest that they just try to write it out with the other hand.

Celestial is EZ, you can literally just hold F and tank until he does the phase 3 gestalt move. As a Maxwell, you can even cage his phase 2.

[Evelo]

14 hours ago, Trashtoptrash said:

I think the truth is, that the community shouldn’t be build up of only high skilled pro gamers but bosses like this one are pushing it to far in this requirement.

Yep, I agree. I dislike the argument of "beat CC and make the staff" because AFW is designed to be on the same level as CC. AFW is much faster and simpler to reach as a boss compared to CC as well. I beat AFW a few times as Wormwood because of bramble traps being able to take care of the woven shadows. A lot of the difficulty with AFW comes with item swapping which can be quite difficult if you play only on keyboard, or only mouse. (idk about console gamers). For me, simply reducing the amount of healing AFW gains from each Woven Shadow or reduce the number of Woven Shadows is enough of a nerf to make it more completeable by more people, without requiring beating an entirely separate end game boss.

[Cruvimaster]

20 hours ago, Trashtoptrash said:

What are you thinking about this opinion of a player who lost the interest in continuing this torture?

AFW used to be very difficult, but it is not today. All the characters are getting extremely stronger and AFW is the same. We could say that AFW received a nerf indirectly (all the bosses received it).

You don't need to be skilled to defeat AFW, just choose a character that will do the fighting for you, like Wurt, Winona, Maxwell etc.

[Gashzer]

Let me introduce you to the solution to all your problems @Trashtoptrash

The Moonlight shackle!

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/158295-moonlight-shackle-new-celestial-altar-craft-suggestion-afw-nerf/#comment-1735464

[grm9]

20 hours ago, gaymime said:

please explain how you expect someone who isn't good enough to beat fw to be able to beat celestial?

[Gashzer]

30 minutes ago, grm9 said:

 

What if people don't want to play wolfgang? 

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

What if people don't want to play wolfgang? 

they can do the same thing with more resources

[Cruvimaster]

3 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

What if people don't want to play wolfgang? 

So they will have to learn to play instead of complaining on the Forum.

[Reiko24]

49 minutes ago, grm9 said:

 

True. That's how easy this boss is.

If you don't want to use a lot of resources then he is harder, but this way he is extremely easy.

Not only that, but it is even recommended for players like this to defeat CC first, because AF can root you and HEAL for thousands. CC doesn't have such things so it is easier.

Instead of complaining on the forums, if you are not skilled enough to defeat AF before CC, just defeat CC first. Otherwise, do as you want.

[grm9]

9 hours ago, Evelo said:

I dislike the argument of "beat CC and make the staff" because AFW is designed to be on the same level as CC

then they should make CC harder, it's much easier, simpler and more boring in comparison to FW and that sucks considering that it's a final boss

[DegenerateFurry]

10 hours ago, Evelo said:

Yep, I agree. I dislike the argument of "beat CC and make the staff" because AFW is designed to be on the same level as CC. AFW is much faster and simpler to reach as a boss compared to CC as well. I beat AFW a few times as Wormwood because of bramble traps being able to take care of the woven shadows. A lot of the difficulty with AFW comes with item swapping which can be quite difficult if you play only on keyboard, or only mouse. (idk about console gamers). For me, simply reducing the amount of healing AFW gains from each Woven Shadow or reduce the number of Woven Shadows is enough of a nerf to make it more completeable by more people, without requiring beating an entirely separate end game boss.

You understand this game far better than all the insecure people telling everyone "git gud". It's like you said: Fuelweaver and CC are meant to be each other's counterparts, so it makes no sense if, as every single one of those insecure individuals has said, Celestial Champion is significantly less difficult. That's just a very good argument in favor of Klei making Fuelweaver less of a headache to deal with. 

[grm9]

12 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

insecure people

why're all people that like something that you don't like automatically insecure?

12 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

telling everyone "git gud"

read people's messages before complaining about them

12 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

making Fuelweaver less of a headache to deal with

just say "easier" instead of "less of a headache", since that's what you mean

12 minutes ago, DegenerateFurry said:

it makes no sense if, as every single one of those insecure individuals has said, Celestial Champion is significantly less difficult

yeah, CC should become harder and more fun

[Swiyss]

I think that there is enough content in the game and things you can change in the world settings for the fight to be easier so no need to change anything.

[NoodlemanNed]

i do think fuelweaver should be easier than it currently is, but i believe theres a very simple way to do so without ruining for the people who enjoy its current state.

the moonlight shackle suggestion has gotten a ton of hate but an item similar to it would be ideal, the idea is to just let less skilled players have a reasonable fight at the cost of it taking forever to set up. If someone doesnt want to get better at the game they shouldnt be locked out of certain content because of it. All the rift content you get after killing fuelweaver is a very significant drop in difficulty which is honestly pretty disappointing considering how much of a challenge it is to even get to that point.

i dont think its fair to call people insecure because they enjoy a certain fight, enjoying the fight in its current state is perfectly reasonable because there are lots of good things about it. On the other hand its also fair to say the boss is too hard for the average player, especially when its counterpart (celestial champion) is an extremely easy boss to kill so long as you bring enough basic resources.

it IS possible to satisfy both these parties so please for the love of god dont give him the crab king treatment

[DegenerateFurry]

12 minutes ago, NoodlemanNed said:

i do think fuelweaver should be easier than it currently is, but i believe theres a very simple way to do so without ruining for the people who enjoy its current state.

the moonlight shackle suggestion has gotten a ton of hate but an item similar to it would be ideal, the idea is to just let less skilled players have a reasonable fight at the cost of it taking forever to set up. If someone doesnt want to get better at the game they shouldnt be locked out of certain content because of it. All the rift content you get after killing fuelweaver is a very significant drop in difficulty which is honestly pretty disappointing considering how much of a challenge it is to even get to that point.

i dont think its fair to call people insecure because they enjoy a certain fight, enjoying the fight in its current state is perfectly reasonable because there are lots of good things about it. On the other hand its also fair to say the boss is too hard for the average player, especially when its counterpart (celestial champion) is an extremely easy boss to kill so long as you bring enough basic resources.

it IS possible to satisfy both these parties so please for the love of god dont give him the crab king treatment

 I agree with most of what you're saying. I wouldn't call Celestial Champion extremely easy - it's definitely harder than Dragonfly, for example. But, it is true that the post-rifts content, which most players find challenging, is substantially less difficult than Fuelweaver. Some way to make Fuelweaver less painful to deal with for the majority of players - or, alternatively, that being the default, and Klei adding a way to increase his difficulty back to what it is now - would be a perfectly reasonable compromise, as you've said with your comment about the moonlight shackle idea. Honestly, something like that being part of Fuelweaver's boss prep would help to further equalize him as a counterpart to Celestial Champion, since the lunar questline is far longer than the shadow one right now.

Also, for clarity's sake, I'm not calling people who just like Fuelweaver as-is insecure. I'm calling people whose only response to criticism of the boss is to tell people to "git gud", whether it's that sentiment spread out over more words or not, insecure. Their condescending attitude towards people whose arguments they refuse to consider valid has to stem from something, after all.

[arubaro]

13 hours ago, Evelo said:

Yep, I agree. I dislike the argument of "beat CC and make the staff" because AFW is designed to be on the same level as CC. AFW is much faster and simpler to reach as a boss compared to CC as well. I beat AFW a few times as Wormwood because of bramble traps being able to take care of the woven shadows. A lot of the difficulty with AFW comes with item swapping which can be quite difficult if you play only on keyboard, or only mouse. (idk about console gamers). For me, simply reducing the amount of healing AFW gains from each Woven Shadow or reduce the number of Woven Shadows is enough of a nerf to make it more completeable by more people, without requiring beating an entirely separate end game boss.

Is a valid argument that helps people who have problems fighting fw but wish to improve instead of cry for nerfs because they dont have enough skill or knowledge

That "im bad at the game, the game should change" kind of mentality doesnt bring anything good for the game and for some reason this game is filled of that kind of people (workshop mods with op characters, stuff like darkness inmunity or extra slots for everything being popular is the proof).

This game isnt a darksould but neithet is an asian rpg with tutorial difficulty but, for some reason,  i guess how cool are the graphics, it attracts that kind of "players" (if avoid engaging with mechanics or removing the game over factor can be called "playing")

[Evelo]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

Is a valid argument that helps people who have problems fighting fw but wish to improve instead of cry for nerfs because they dont have enough skill or knowledge

I don't understand what you are trying to say here, could you please elaborate?

7 hours ago, grm9 said:

 - Video -

Video isn't supported for me Was interested in watching it.

5 hours ago, grm9 said:

then they should make CC harder, it's much easier, simpler and more boring in comparison to FW and that sucks considering that it's a final boss

Yep, in agreement. CC is basically a "Hold F" boss like Dfly until phase 3 which is just "Wait for it to run away from the sleep crystals then hold F"

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Evelo said:

Video isn't supported for me Was interested in watching it.

https://youtu.be/AE9F_FwOfwY

[Waywarbler]

5 hours ago, grm9 said:

then they should make CC harder, it's much easier, simpler and more boring in comparison to FW and that sucks considering that it's a final boss

I'm very curious what your ideal version of Celestial Champion is. I wouldn't mind it being made a bit harder, and I'm wondering what you might have in mind for making it closer to Fuelweaver's level of complexity.

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Evelo said:

don't understand what you are trying to say here, could you please elaborate?

Because if someone has problems dealing with fw and one of the ways to make it easier is to beat their mirror boss why isnt that a valid argument?? Isnt a valid argument to learn using other characters neither?

Is like the only valid argument is beating them with their favourite character, without practicing, 1st time and few gear...for that we already have dumb and easy bosses. This one needs practise and investing time and resources to get the most income of all the other enemies

[Evelo]

12 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Because if someone has problems dealing with fw and one of the ways to make it easier is to beat their mirror boss why isnt that a valid argument?? Isnt a valid argument to learn using other characters neither?

Ah alright. So it is a strategy but at least in my eyes (this may be some fallacy idk), Klei created Fuelweaver and Celestial Champion as opposites. The player is free to fight one before the other, but not required to. While by numerous examples, fuelweaver is clearly capable of being defeated without any CC or Post CC loot, it may be encouraged to do so as certain characters gain bonuses only after AFW or CC is defeated. (Which I have my own opinions about but those are not relevant to this topic). Wormwood for example has bonuses with Brightshade Gear so it makes sense for Wormwood players to focus on CC first. Meanwhile Winona can get bonuses with Pure Horror which, while attainable prior to AFW being defeated, it is readily available post AFW (and unlocking the rifts). As such winonas are encouraged (if they take the path) to fight AFW first.

So the reason why I feel this isn't a valid argument is because if a player struggling with one endgame boss but not the other unless they specifically have to beat one before the other when they are meant to be comparable in terms of difficulty. CC is really easy and can be done with 6 darkswords and a little bit of healing and armor as any character with minimal strategy. AFW meanwhile has a smaller arena, and requires AoE or precice kiting which is fine, but it is just unfriendly to less skilled or disabled gamers. CC could definitely use a difficulty bump, because the hardest thing about CC is Crab King and Pearl's island which is kind of odd. Just my opinion of course. I am sure the argument is totally valid but I am just like "meh". To each their own yknow?