The need to improve Wilson's skill tree is more important than ever.

[Anis5240]

Another day, another "Please consider fixing Wilson's skill tree" thread. Which I don't mind. He really needs it. 

Why even people on forums feel the need to annotate Wilson as a "tutorial character"? No such thing was even outrightly said. In his base form, he's just a guy with a beard that both serves as an upside and a downside. Sure, you started with him in DS, but no more ever since Wagstaff was added. And in DST, people can choose whoever they want to play.

But with his skill tree, he had been more than just "that bearded guy". I like the twig-log and meat-morsel transmutes. I like the beard storage.

So it's just an absolute shame to see those sparks of good, wonderful ideas being brought down by the absolute mediocrity of unnecessary fillers in said skill tree. Three damn tiers for a mere torch toss. Seven points for a discount lantern.

Cut down the unwarranted bits, and put more creative ideas. Endothermic torch is a common idea that people want to be implemented. Healing perks too. So does getting more sanity from prototypes.

The point is, Wilson's character shouldn't suffer to fill in the "tutorial character" shoes. I don't expect his skill tree to be revised as soon as possible, but it does, then I'll be happy to see it.

Please do consider it, Klei. Again, we (long-time) Wilson players may be in the minority in the forums (or everywhere else), but to see our beloved character got dragged down the mud after waiting for 4+ years for his "rework" compared to others really, really stinks; as if spitting on our faces for said patience.

[mkemal23]

I Don't think it really matters at this point, but here's some of the suggestions I made in case a dev sees this.

[ChintzyGnat]

Another day another character tree discussion...

[Cruvimaster]

59 minutes ago, mkemal23 said:

I Don't think it really matters at this point, but here's some of the suggestions I made in case a dev sees this.

I would like these parts of the torch to be completely removed and replaced with something useful, even if it were to improve Miner Hat, Moggles and Lantern (all of them at the same time).

Torch is the most useless thing after 3 days of playing.

[mkemal23]

3 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

I would like these parts of the torch to be completely removed and replaced with something useful, even if it were to improve Miner Hat, Moggles and Lantern (all of them at the same time).

Torch is the most useless thing after 3 days of playing.

I know and I definitely agree. Torch tree gets overshadowed so hard and so easliy that that tree is basically worthless right now. 

However, I don't think that klei would do big changes on Wilson right now, so I suggested simpler, number tweaks that can be done in a QOL update.

[Anis5240]

25 minutes ago, ChintzyGnat said:

Another day another character tree discussion...

Don't like, don't bother with this discussion.

15 minutes ago, mkemal23 said:

so I suggested simpler, number tweaks that can be done in a QOL update.

If Wormwood can have his Lunar Guardian perk changed into Brambleshade Armor, so can Wilson have the torch tree to be changed into the general light source tree. (And he's the one that needs more fixing than Wormwood.)

Klei doesn't seem to able putting themselves in players' shoes. Most of the time, we're the ones that have to tell what is needed to be done for the sake of balancing the gameplay. So I don't know if Klei really is being stubborn for no reason to not revamp the torch tree when practically majority of Wilson players expressed dissatisfaction onto it. Since last year. A mere torch tree rework was considered as "powercreep" by them, I lost braincells upon hearing that.

Being hopeful for a mere decent change can be such a double-edged sword to be honest...

[Larael]

So i think people really not understand how easy is to break a game, making the torch durability higher makes the use of lanters unnecessary. If you have a better item than a lantern why use it ? and that aplies to the other perks right now they're balanced they're not good but balanced. 
I like the idea of improving the durability of light sources like lanterns and minerhats and to balance that you choose to toss the torch or improve those items.

[YouKnowWho]

4 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

A mere torch tree rework was considered as "powercreep" by them, I lost braincells upon hearing that.

I don’t know what your obsession with this clip is. The devs only ever mention power-creep regarding the development of more mechanically complex skill-trees. They did say they wanted to keep Wilson’s skill tree more flat, but that’s a completely different sentiment than “torch tree 2 op.” 

[Wormboi]

I get that you're unhappy about wilson's skill tree but you dont need to make threads about constantly like this.

[Anis5240]

10 minutes ago, YouKnowWho said:

more mechanically complex skill-trees

How exactly is merely changing the torch tree into a more generalized light source tree is considered "complex"? That's what I want to know. If Winona's spotlight can generate heat, why shouldn't Wilson's thrown torches do the same?

19 minutes ago, Larael said:

if you have a better item than a lantern why use it

Same reason why people don't use magiluminiscense aside from boss fights despite it doing a better job than the lantern. Not to mention the torch perks are so uncreative. Just durability and brightness. The full torch perk is just a discount lantern. Why should someone spend so much points (7 out of the given 15) for an item that already exists in the game?

12 minutes ago, Wormboi said:

you need to make threads about constantly like this.

Too bad that it's a must. Call me annoying or anything, but if Klei doesn't want to give their characters their deserved justice, then it's just bad faith they have placed onto players. You get what I mean?

[Larael]

2 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

Same reason why people don't use magiluminiscense aside from boss fights despite it doing a better job than the lantern. Not to mention the torch perks are so uncreative. Just durability and brightness. The full torch perk is just a discount lantern. Why should someone spend so much points (7 out of the given 15) for an item that already exists in the game?

Mag doesn't do a better job than a lantern. It takes away your body slot (usefull for armor, bagpack that stuff) the light radius of the mag is pretty bad you can barely see your surroundings and yeah the speed bonus is there but as you said is more efective on boss fights and the mag doesn't work unless your wearing it. In that comparison is kinda worse. 

Now it's not about making new items or making some characters op (yeah the new skilltrees prove me wrong) but as i said improving the light radius or durability of existing items as wilson is pretty balance in my perspective, of course it should be better to have unique crafts like the endothermic torch and that stuff but why ? 

[zhangsheng]

Torches can also have many uses, such as Charlie's torch. It can serve as a reward for Shadow Affinity and has the special ability to sanction Gestalt.

[Sir Noel]

4 minutes ago, zhangsheng said:

Torches can also have many uses, such as Charlie's torch. It can serve as a reward for Shadow Affinity and has the special ability to sanction Gestalt.

If we stick with the torch skills might as well go all the way, let's make him Wilson, Master of Torches

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Sir Noel said:

If we stick with the torch skills might as well go all the way, let's make him Wilson, Master of Torches

I demand a updated version of the image above where Wilson shows up and slaps the torch out of Charlie's hand and says "That's my perk." and then walks off while Charlie is attacked by gesalts.

[Larael]

Idk why but orange came to my mind and said "Wilson making five 5 torches instead of a lantern is a big brain move do not challenge the scientist" xD

[mkemal23]

32 minutes ago, zhangsheng said:

Torches can also have many uses, such as Charlie's torch. It can serve as a reward for Shadow Affinity and has the special ability to sanction Gestalt.

I must say, I really love the idea here. This would make parallels between Maxwell and Wilson better as thats what klei's been trying to do with Wilson. 

Like, the idea fits perfectly.

[Anis5240]

34 minutes ago, zhangsheng said:

It can serve as a reward for Shadow Affinity and has the special ability to sanction Gestalt.

Entrap Gestalts for light (and sanity) could be a cool thing, as well as it being able to show Alter's true nature.

3 minutes ago, mkemal23 said:

parallels between Maxwell and Wilson better as thats what klei's been trying to do with Wilson

Ah, the torch bearer Wilson... I like the idea of him being a beacon of light (a savior even, but that's another topic) to the other survivors, but the problem is why the hell Klei took and made that so literally. Torch doesn't sell as much gigs as Dwarf Stars and spotlights anyway. Once you got lanterns, it's over.

[Mysterious box]

I will say it is kind of weird that Wilson was retroactively made into the character who helps new players with light when that has realistically always been Willow's role.

[Anis5240]

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

it is kind of weird that Wilson was retroactively made into the character who helps new players with light when that has realistically always been Willow's role.

Mmm hmmm.

Sure, I may rage upon why the hell Willow get discount Dwarf Stars, but that still is within her area. What I'm mad on even more is why she can refill her lighter yet when people suggest for a refuelable torch, it was met with ridicule. Grasses and twigs are already such easy-to-find resources, why not make them be the fuels too?

[NPCMaxwell]

45 minutes ago, mkemal23 said:

I must say, I really love the idea here. This would make parallels between Maxwell and Wilson better as thats what klei's been trying to do with Wilson. 

Like, the idea fits perfectly.

THIS and [sorry I just had to ask] where on earth did this perfect artwork come from? It's so perfect I am dying from realizing I never saw this before. Wilson and Maxwell having yet another reason to argue / glare at each other / every sort of interaction is one of my favourite topics when it comes to DS artwork.

[Anis5240]

Just now, NPCMaxwell said:

where on earth did this perfect artwork come from

It's from the Cyclum comic and Metheus Puzzles era. (The aftermath to be exact)

[NPCMaxwell]

45 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

Entrap Gestalts for light (and sanity) could be a cool thing, as well as it being able to show Alter's true nature.

Ah, the torch bearer Wilson... I like the idea of him being a beacon of light (a savior even, but that's another topic) to the other survivors, but the problem is why the hell Klei took and made that so literally. Torch doesn't sell as much gigs as Dwarf Stars and spotlights anyway. Once you got lanterns, it's over.

What about Wilson, the master of Dwarf Stars [and actually scientific lightsources like endothermic fire] instead?

Just now, Anis5240 said:

It's from the Cyclum comic and Metheus Puzzles era. (The aftermath to be exact)

Thanks for letting me know I missed most of those entirely.

[Anis5240]

1 minute ago, NPCMaxwell said:

[and actually scientific lightsources like endothermic fire]

I don't mind this to be honest. Not many people use endothermic fire anyway (and it being usable for one season only kinda stinks). So many things in the game are purely situational it's a wonder why did Klei even think to make them. The bat bat nerf already brought down its status as a welcomed sight in the labyrinth.

Again, the mediocrity of the torch tree is that it ONLY affects regular torches. And with such boring stats too. Why can other survivors have new items in their skill tree but Wilson can't? A simple refuelable/endothermic torch is fine. Situational items/objects can be fun to have, but if they serve such miniscule purpose, may as well rework it into something else.

[NPCMaxwell]

2 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

I don't mind this to be honest. Not many people use endothermic fire anyway (and it being usable for one season only kinda stinks). So many things in the game are purely situational it's a wonder why did Klei even think to make them. The bat bat nerf already brought down its status as a welcomed sight in the labyrinth.

Again, the mediocrity of the torch tree is that it ONLY affects regular torches. And with such boring stats too. Why can other survivors have new items in their skill tree but Wilson can't? A simple refuelable/endothermic torch is fine. Situational items/objects can be fun to have, but if they serve such miniscule purpose, may as well rework it into something else.

If it was for me, [and I usually despise skill trees and other gameplay changing stuff in the first place] I would have given Wilson a skill tree with actual Wilson-specific crafts / activities / items entirely based on SCIENCE [and related topics] I mean a skill tree that actually shows him trying out stuff like he did in the forbidden knowledge video. And for the FUN of it, I would always add a small downside to the skill tree [more like a cursed failed scientist tree] that would always add a [SMALL to stay friendly and make people actually use the tree] chance of any of the Wilson specific stuff failing in a horribly [but super funny] way. [e.g. doing the opposite of what was planned, randomly exploding, etc.]

 

But then this is just what I had done if I had never heard of a DST skilltree before and was asked to come up with any additional Wilson specific unlockable gameplay.

 

Considering the already existing one: I TRULY CAN'T STAND NORMAL TORCHES ONLY!!! Wilson isn't a cave man he may be a failed scientist but he SOMEHOW managed to build a Maxwell Door just like this after getting instructions by holding a creepy talking radio and spinning in circles. I mean....I want to see any other of the DST characters do that. Maybe Wilson should have more of a BLUEPRINT related ability then just the most primitive of all lightsources.

[mkemal23]

36 minutes ago, NPCMaxwell said:

THIS and [sorry I just had to ask] where on earth did this perfect artwork come from? It's so perfect I am dying from realizing I never saw this before. Wilson and Maxwell having yet another reason to argue / glare at each other / every sort of interaction is one of my favourite topics when it comes to DS artwork.

This was an art made by one of klei artists in one of RWP streams. You can find the original image in the Wiki gg Wilson gallery tab.

If I find the stream I'll put the link here.(minute 28)