wurt skill tree affinity is not balanced

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

2 people with hambats without additional perks is enough to melt most threats the game is poorly balanced for multiplayer scenarios...

you'd expect more after spending x10 time on preparation instead of x2

[flamboyant wolf]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

still, around how many?

I think with all the buffs, around 15-20 merm guards will be enough to kill most bosses, and then I could see maybe getting ~30 for easier CC farming and faster dfly/bq kills. I'm just theorising here, though, I did some testing with buffed guards when beta started, but most of my experience is from using the old guards. Didn't have much time to fully try it all out yet.

[Mysterious box]

5 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you'd expect more after spending x10 time on preparation instead of x2

You could make over 16 guards in the first autumn before the new tools so I imagine it's even faster and now each individual merm is worth 2 to 3x their original value so where are you getting 10x the effort? On top of that you won't ever need that prep again for the rest of that world.

[grm9]

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You could make over 16 guards in the first autumn

you could also kill 8 bosses in 1st autumn and 1st 2 days of winter so

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

each individual merm is worth 2 to 3x their original value

dps's mostly same

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

dps's mostly same

Yep but the durability has skyrocketed meaning they'll last to kill everything.

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you could also kill 7 bosses in 1st autumn and 1st 2 days of winter so

So now consider the effort that goes into fighting them everytime after that.

[flamboyant wolf]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You could make over 16 guards in the first autumn before the new tools so I imagine it's even faster and now each individual merm is worth 2 to 3x their original value so where are you getting 10x the effort? On top of that you won't ever need that prep again for the rest of that world.

btw if anyone is having a hard time with getting the spots, I recommend befriending a few wild merms and going on a tentacle hunt in the swamp for early game(this can easily get you dozens of spots, monster meat for your friends or as early rot, and decent 50 dmg weapons), and just making an auto fisher or two for later on(passive income, also gives a whole bunch of gold and seeds and stuff), and/or making merm civil wars(faster method, scales with your village size)

Pretty basic advice, maybe too obvious, but I've seen some people struggling with getting those before, so hope someone finds this useful.

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, skile said:

btw if anyone is having a hard time with getting the spots, I recommend befriending a few wild merms and going on a tentacle hunt in the swamp for early game(this can easily get you dozens of spots, monster meat for your friends or as early rot, and decent 50 dmg weapons), and just making an auto fisher or two for later on(passive income, also gives a whole bunch of gold and seeds and stuff), and/or making merm civil wars(faster method, scales with your village size)

Pretty basic advice, maybe too obvious, but I've seen some people struggling with getting those before, so hope someone finds this useful.

Also as of this update you can bypass going to lunar for kelp by breaking otter dens.

[flamboyant wolf]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Also as of this update you can bypass going to lunar for kelp by breaking otter dens.

I usually get my kelp bushes by finding a bottle and going to Pearl. She doesn't have a whole lot, but it's enough for early game. 

[grm9]

14 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

So now consider the effort that goes into fighting them everytime after that

you could just swap to wurt after you reach late game instead of wasting a lot of time during early game, going to have bearger and reanimated skeleton by then too

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

you could just swap to wurt after you reach late game instead of wasting a lot of time during early game, going to have bearger and reanimated skeleton by then too

Why mess with bearger or the skeleton if merms are just as fast with tools? What would waiting till late game get you in this scenario?

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Why mess with bearger or the skeleton if merms are just as fast with tools? What would waiting till late game get you in this scenario?

reaching late game faster as a character that doesn't require a season to start killing things, bearger and skeleton don't require set up except planting trees and killing FW but you'd do that anyway

[Mysterious box]

11 minutes ago, grm9 said:

reaching late game faster as a character that doesn't require a season to start killing things, bearger and skeleton don't require set up except planting trees and killing FW but you'd do that anyway

A world starts with enough normal merms to rivial these methods only requiring you to build a toolshed what in the world does late game offer that you'd wait for? If your not planning to use them on bosses why even play Wurt at that point?

[grm9]

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

A world starts with enough normal merms to rivial these methods only requiring you to build a toolshed what in the world does late game offer that you'd wait for?

the point was that if you want to use merms for killing bosses after 1st time during late game, you could only start making them after you reach late game to do that faster because of being able to use bearger, winona robots, maxwell, cheaper and better weapons etc.

12 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

If your planning to use them on bosses why even play Wurt at that point?

because they've probably added 12 perks that're only useful for fighting for a reason? if you meant during early game, then that's what i meant, are you getting a billion logs and rocks for a megabase during early game?

[Mysterious box]

24 minutes ago, grm9 said:

the point was that if you want to use merms for killing bosses after 1st time during late game, you could only start making them after you reach late game to do that faster because of being able to use bearger, winona robots, maxwell, cheaper and better weapons etc.

Seems like your not understanding the tools put merms on par with bearger when it comes to log farming and a world starts with around 3 to 4 leaky shacks that's 12 to 16 merms what advantage is there to waiting for bearger when your log collecting squad already exists?

You can start hunting bosses with merm guards on the back end of autumn or early winter at the latest if your unlucky that is not the late game so there is zero benefit from waiting unless you have a issue with her diet. You can put it off if you want but there's no benefit aside from rushing the ruins for a lazy forager and crown for the king.

24 minutes ago, grm9 said:

because they've probably added 12 perks that're only useful for fighting for a reason? if you meant during early game, then that's what i meant, are you getting a billion logs and rocks for a megabase during early game?

This was a typo

36 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

If your not planning to use them on bosses why even play Wurt at that point?

 

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Seems like your not understanding the tools put merms on par with bearger when it comes to log farming and a world starts with around 3 to 4 leaky shacks that's 12 to 16 merms what advantage is there to waiting for bearger when your log collecting squad already exists?

not needing to gather merms and being able to use winona's robots and maxwell's clones for picking stuff up

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

You can start hunting bosses with merm guards on the back end of autumn or early winter at the latest if your unlucky that is not the late game so there is zero benefit from waiting unless you have a issue with her diet. You can put it off if you want but there's no benefit aside from rushing the ruins for a lazy forager and crown for the king

you can reach late game about twice as fast in comparison to spending most of 1st autumn on setting merms up as wurt

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

not needing to gather merms and being able to use winona's robots and maxwell's clones for picking stuff up

The lazy forager exists and so does the community feeder.

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you can reach late game about twice as fast in comparison to spending most of 1st autumn on setting merms up as wurt

Okay? I mean why not just play someone else like Wolfgang at that point though I mean what's the benefit? Your putting in the same amount of work making the homes regardless it's just a question of do you want to do it now or later and if your doing it later a lazy forager replaces every benefit other characters and bosses could possibly offer you.

[grm9]

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

The lazy forager exists

slower

5 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

community feeder

does it reach all merm houses that spawned on their own?

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

does it reach all merm houses that spawned on their own?

No but if your plan is to wait I imagine your going to build some normal craftsmen homes as well?

 

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

slower

Not really Maxwell's shadow workers are definitely going to be slower as they'll be trying to chop as well or if your summoning them afterwards that means you had to chop first with bearger then park him and pick up the wood after. Winona likely falls into the same category while requiring multiple winbots to match the forager.

In the Wurt scenario your passively collecting the logs as they delete the trees and you can even help pick them up too.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

No but if your plan is to wait I imagine your going to build some normal craftsmen homes as well?

i meant that you might as well not play as wurt during early game and swap to her after you reach late game if you want to use merms for killing bosses during late game

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Not really Maxwell's shadow workers are definitely going to be slower as they'll be trying to chop as well or if your summoning them afterwards that means you had to chop first with bearger then park him and pick up the wood after. Winona likely falls into the same category while requiring multiple winbots to match the forager

i don't see an issue with using bearger to instantly chop trees, putting him away somewhere and then picking stuff up with a speed of around 7 people instead of around 2 in case of wurt with amulet 

[Mysterious box]

Just now, grm9 said:

meant that you might as well not play as wurt during early game and swap to her after you reach late game if you want to use merms for killing bosses during late game

My question is what do you gain from this?

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

don't see an issue with using bearger to instantly chop trees, putting him away somewhere and then picking stuff up with a speed of around 7 people instead of around 2 in case of wurt with amulet 

There isn't really a issue but your wasting more time doing it your way.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

My question is what do you gain from this?

reaching late game about twice as fast and becoming able to set merms up faster after that

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

There isn't really a issue but your wasting more time doing it your way

i'll check that later

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, grm9 said:

reaching late game about twice as fast and becoming able to set merms up faster after that

You keep saying that but what exactly is making setting up merms faster in the late game? Wood? Merms got it covered. Kelp? Rushing the lunar island takes care of that. Spots? Merms can just kill tentacles or if you want to be more passive about it you can just setup trawlers. All of these are early game things what specifically is the end game doing to speed this process up?

[grm9]

Just now, Mysterious box said:

Wood? Merms got it covered

i'll check if bearger with maxwell's faster

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Kelp? Rushing the lunar island takes care of that

that way you don't need to spend time on that since there's no reason to go to lunar before you get stuff for 2 altars except that

2 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Spots? Merms can just kill tentacles or of you want to be more passive about it you can just setup trawlers

wasn't thinking about that but ig you could speed that up too since you could get lunar swamp staff thing for buffing merms and making them drop them 

[Gashzer]

Wurt is better than maxwell.

Once you set up like 10 merm guards huts and 6-7 regular merms you can steamroll bosses without needing the skill and item juggling that maxwell requires.

Once wurt finds the swamp she can committ deforestation much faster than maxwell because realistically treeguards will slow maxwell down while merms can help out in the fight and continue on chopping straight away.

[grm9]

13 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Wurt is better than maxwell.

Once you set up like 10 merm guards huts and 6-7 regular merms you can steamroll bosses without needing the skill and item juggling that maxwell requires.

Once wurt finds the swamp she can committ deforestation much faster than maxwell because realistically treeguards will slow maxwell down while merms can help out in the fight and continue on chopping straight away

that looks like trolling