Should Winona be a swap character?

[Soul7k]

2 minutes ago, GreenBowers said:

That argument does exist, you're just not taking the time to actually consider it.

 

no I think I am. and I am not going to sit here and discount the amount time someone decides they want to set aside to do something because I don't want them to play the game that way, but what will bother me is when there is a million structures sitting in the way of something I need to do because they dont do anything but take up space.

[lionking102]

12 hours ago, EatenCheetos said:

This should not be a thing. This should never be a thing. The concept of swap characters should be burned to the ground

What does this even mean? What is a "Swap Character"?
Swapping to a character for 10 min isn`t optimal, but will always exist for some people and no one is forced to do it. Why bother, if someone does it?

But swapping to different characters in long worlds to have enjoy all the game provids, or for some variety, or because some characters are just more fun for some actions should of course be a thing. I love playing with others, but in reality I`m playing most time alone and only experience one character for 4000 days is sad, because there is so much missing content and I love the different playstiles. Why not enjoy it? Why ruin other people the fun, because they want to play differently?

I really don`t understand the problem here. It feels like there is only one way to play allowed which is so sad for a creative game like DST.

And if character swapping isn`t the problem, how long do I need to play a character then for it not to be a swap character?

[EatenCheetos]

3 minutes ago, lionking102 said:

What does this even mean? What is a "Swap Character"?
Swapping to a character for 10 min isn`t optimal, but will always exist for some people and no one is forced to do it. Why bother, if someone does it?

But swapping to different characters in long worlds to have enjoy all the game provids, or for some variety, or because some characters are just more fun for some actions should of course be a thing. I love playing with others, but in reality I`m playing most time alone and only experience one character for 4000 days is sad, because there is so much missing content and I love the different playstiles. Why not enjoy it? Why ruin other people the fun, because they want to play differently?

I really don`t understand the problem here. It feels like there is only one way to play allowed which is so sad for a creative game like DST.

And if character swapping isn`t the problem, how long do I need to play a character then for it not to be a swap character?

Can you please at least look at the rest of the thread before commenting so we don’t have to repeat ourselves?

[Quadratordo]

19 minutes ago, chaosmonkey said:

This is not sunk cost fallacy. That requires that a change would generally be understood as beneficial.

While it is not a sunk cost fallacy, it doesn't mean it's a good argument to make; old feature ''inertia'' like that has no inherent merit, as design philosophies tend to shift over time, and goodness knows DS' has done so a lot. The devs' design scope of yesterday might not align with today's, and the last beta update shows just that. I'm with you in wanting to keep a barebones functionality available; just wanted to get an easily dismissable argument out of the way in favor of something more sensible.

[cybers2001]

2 hours ago, EatenCheetos said:

https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/the-sunk-cost-fallacy

 

2 hours ago, Quadratordo said:

While it is not a sunk cost fallacy, it doesn't mean it's a good argument to make; old feature ''inertia'' like that has no inherent merit, as design philosophies tend to shift over time, and goodness knows DS' has done so a lot. The devs' design scope of yesterday might not align with today's, and the last beta update shows just that. I'm with you in wanting to keep a barebones functionality available; just wanted to get an easily dismissable argument out of the way in favor of something more sensible.

To be honest I think Klei could really improve on better directional clarity with their game here. If they said up front, "hey we want to restrict more of this content because we'll be introducing non-character specific alternatives in our road map", then people would feel less like Klei is just in the shadows silently taking away gameplay. All they've vocalized prior to this update has been that they weren't planning to take existing content away and to instead focus on adding power to Winona.

[FluffyBun]

7 hours ago, TizianOwO said:

Missing the point. No-one denied this, they just don't think characters shouldn't be able to get every single meaningful benefit of another character without even playing them, at that point they might as well be a crafting recipe and not a character.

Winona can do things with structures that other characters cannot:

#1 - She can, with the cost of 3 inventory slots, immediately set up a monkey/hound/depthsworm killing farm right on the spot before repacking it to go

#2 - She can create an emergency teleport-out-of-bad-situation area with just 2 more inventory slots

This already differentiates Winona from other characters. She has a powerful AoE AND long-ranged attacks AND escape in every situation, including in places where Abigail cannot go (like Ruins). She is perhaps the only character with a cheap long-ranged attack. She can kill Prime Mates before they reach her boat, etc.

[SapoLover]

Swap character is a thing only in people's mind. You can't stop efficiency fans from swapping to certain characters that do certain things better. More characters having crafts that could be used by others would be beneficial for the multiplayer and cooperative aspect of the game. But no, their character has to be the only one. Like a kid that doesn't want to borrow his ball.

[TizianOwO]

1 hour ago, SapoLover said:

Swap character is a thing only in people's mind. You can't stop efficiency fans from swapping to certain characters that do certain things better. More characters having crafts that could be used by others would be beneficial for the multiplayer and cooperative aspect of the game. But no, their character has to be the only one. Like a kid that doesn't want to borrow his ball.

Again, misses the point. A character having crafted items other can use isn't the problem, the problem is when those crafts are the only meaningful benefit the character has, which heavily weighs on the decision to actually play them at all.

1 hour ago, FluffyBun said:

[Snip]

These were both added by the skill tree rework, and I commend Klei for actually giving some reason to play Winona for her own merits, but despite the thread the point I was making to that person wasn't specific to Winona.

[somethin]

Everybody is a swap character since when a world goes on for long enough Wanda with her completed teleport network is objectively the best character to be /s

[SapoLover]

3 hours ago, TizianOwO said:

Again, misses the point. A character having crafted items other can use isn't the problem, the problem is when those crafts are the only meaningful benefit the character has, which heavily weighs on the decision to actually play them at all.

Yours is a personal problem. If you feel like you can't play a character because you'd rather play another, that's on you. And that's fine.

All of Wicker's benefits come from her books and library, which all can be used by Maxwell. Even like that, there are still many Wicker mains, even tho they'd be better playing Maxwell. Why? She uses them better sanity-wise. It only takes a slight from her own crafts to keep her relevant. If she can, others can do as well.

[GreenBowers]

3 hours ago, SapoLover said:

Yours is a personal problem. If you feel like you can't play a character because you'd rather play another, that's on you. And that's fine.

All of Wicker's benefits come from her books and library, which all can be used by Maxwell. Even like that, there are still many Wicker mains, even tho they'd be better playing Maxwell. Why? She uses them better sanity-wise. It only takes a slight from her own crafts to keep her relevant. If she can, others can do as well.

Ill be a wickermain forever. I just think shes neat

[Demigardenerner]

On 6/11/2024 at 11:08 PM, WereBruhver said:

What happens to Winona kit's being or not mostly something to swap into to craft and swap from to use as other character should be remembered when the same question arises from Warly and Wicker so its not just an arbitrary decision which characters get to be treated like this or not.

In my opinion her kit should be kept as something you can use as other characters and I think this mostly because It keeps open the possibility of klei extending being able to use one character's perks as another character and there are tools from other characters I have always looked foward to use while playing another one, Wanda teleportation watch is an example It is such a good tool late game I wish I could enjoy it on other characters, it opens a lot of possibilities.

If you don’t want to play the character then you shouldn’t get the character main benefit so either play Winona or get your trusty tape and be happy for that