Don't let Wurt skill tree flop

[Jakepeng99]

Pun intended.

they have showed very little so far of Wurt's skilltree. Though, what has been so far looks concerning. I will go over what was shown in her skilltree and throw in suggestions:

Mosquito Branch:

Mosquito Neutraliser: Its ok, though niche.

Mosquito Bomb: It looks weak, and doesnt make sense to add to Wurt. It doesn't add on or expand her playstyle. It is not nessisarly a flawed item, but why is this one of Wurt's main things?

Mosquito Fertaliser: Too similar to wormwood and his compost wrap. If Wurt were to have farming upsides, it would be better to have it be related to merms.

Summary of Branch: These items are not nessisarly bad by themselves, but they dont fit with Wurt's playstyle (optionally basing in swamp is not much of one, it is normally better to move swamp turf and merms elsewhere to be more cooperative with other players) . Yes she likes to base in the swamp, but there is a better way to add these items. Klei could take the lunar funcap approach that they did with Wormwood. Potentially make these items available to all players, and replace them with skills that add on to and expand Wurt's current playstyle. Like fishing skills, or new merm stuff.

Edit: Mosquito neutraliser can stay exclusive to her, so they are still the most effective for her.

 

Shrine

Not useful. Merms respawning too slow has never been a problem. Infact, merm guards respawn in 0.5 days. This item could use a new function. It is useful early game for farming craftsmerm house merms, but it is not a good item. 

Healing Item

This item currently does not work fundamentally. Merms heal overtime, so it is not worth using out of combat. In combat, you have to stop what you are doing, go up to a merm, and heal it. This wont be used as people would rather just use their merms as fodder and save lots of resources.

Though, i have an idea to fix this item:

▪It is now a healing dart. It can be thrown from range onto a merm to heal it. This makes it much easier to heal them, and makes you not need to move from your spot.

▪Let it ricochet off merms like the brightshade staff to heal multiple merms.

Another problem though is not being able to see merm health bars. 

 

Wetness Perks

They talked about them as a concept, though never shown. I feel like it is important to leave a comment on their concept.

I don't believe this will work well, as Wurt's main thing is merms. It may be too much at once, juggling both your wetness and your merms so i don't think this will work well as it clashes two aspects of her character.

Keeping wetness is also very akward outside of rain. I have experience from doing this as Wurt in Summer with a fashion melon and other methods to keep cool. It is a niche thing to do, but is very akward to do.

I feel like they should focus mostly on merms than Wurt herself.

 

Plz klei you can do this!

[Jakepeng99]

1 minute ago, SSneaky said:

let wurt swim as one of the last things on the wetness branch.

that would let you keep your wetness up more.

Yeah it would, but that is not confirmed, and even if so it would still be annoying to have to keep dipping in.

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Mosquito Bomb: It looks weak, and doesnt make sense to add to Wurt. It doesn't add on or expand her playstyle. It is not nessisarly a flawed item, but why is this one of Wurt's main things?

Yea it feels like they massively underestimate how weak mosquitos are with their long attack cooldowns and super low damage output. I feel like a good solution would be to give their bites a secondary effect on enemies.

 

12 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Wetness Perks

They talked about them as a concept, though never shown. I feel like it is important to leave a comment on their concept.

I don't believe this will work well, as Wurt's main thing is merms. It may be too much at once, juggling both your wetness and your merms so i don't think this will work well as it clashes two aspects of her character.

Keeping wetness is also very akward outside of rain. I have experience from doing this as Wurt in Summer with a fashion melon and other methods to keep cool. It is a niche thing to do, but is very akward to do.

I feel like they should focus mostly on merms than Wurt herself.

So my idea for this would be to make her dry much slower, allow her to create/relocate ponds, and finally allow her to take a dip into ponds to boost her wetness. Honestly a part of me wonders if the amphibian side of her tree is going to somehow allow her to weaponize frogs as well.

[flamboyant wolf]

4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Yea it feels like they massively underestimate how weak mosquitos are with their long attack cooldowns and super low damage output. I feel like a good solution would be to give their bites a secondary effect on enemies.

 

 

well, they can explode I suppose, so maybe they could serve as weak AoE dmg dealers, but idk how viable that'd be. 

21 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

 

Wetness Perks

I don't believe this will work well, as Wurt's main thing is merms. It may be too much at once, juggling both your wetness and your merms so i don't think this will work well as it clashes two aspects of her character.

While I do agree the main focus should be on merms, I would be lying if I said I wasn't curious about those amphibious skills. I feel like it has the potential to make Wurt's gameplay just that much funner, as well as providing her with a few more things to enjoy in the early game, while still setting up the empire. 

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, skile said:

well, they can explode I suppose, so maybe they could serve as weak AoE dmg dealers, but idk how viable that'd be.

The explosion only deals 24 damage they'd be a distraction at best in their current state. I was think more along the lines of making them slow enemies down, making them deal less damage, panic, or take more damage something substantial but secondary rather than trying to make them damage dealers which would require a rework to their current a.i.

[flamboyant wolf]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

The explosion only deals 24 damage they'd be a distraction at best in their current state. I was think more along the lines of making them slow enemies down, making them deal less damage, panic, or take more damage something substantial but secondary rather than trying to make them damage dealers which would require a rework to their current a.i.

true

[BalkanCockroach]

Okay so assuming the next stage of the skill makes bombs hold 6 mosquitos i feel like that can be viable as a distraction for horde mobs or single target enemies. Also mosquitos kite so they aren't going to die that quick unless the enemy has aoe. 

Thinking of a scenario real quick, let's say you get a pirate raid. If you throw 2 bombs onto their boat that's gonna be 8-12 mosquitos they have to deal with. They kind of suck damage wise but idk i feel like they could get some weight off your back during a fight.

[Jakepeng99]

33 minutes ago, skile said:

While I do agree the main focus should be on merms, I would be lying if I said I wasn't curious about those amphibious skills.

I was talking about just the wetness one, not the amphibian side as a whole. Its hard to explain how i feel about it, and Wurt's skill tree as a whole.

 

Koopa explains what i feel mostly much more clearly, besides from a few suggestions and the wetness stuff.

11 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Okay so assuming the next stage of the skill makes bombs hold 6 mosquitos i feel like that can be viable as a distraction for horde mobs or single target enemies. Also mosquitos kite so they aren't going to die that quick unless the enemy has aoe. 

Thinking of a scenario real quick, let's say you get a pirate raid. If you throw 2 bombs onto their boat that's gonna be 8-12 mosquitos they have to deal with. They kind of suck damage wise but idk i feel like they could get some weight off your back during a fight.

Its fine as an item, but i dont think this should be part of Wurt's skilltree. She had merms for this (do the mosquitos and the sack hurt merms?).

It would be better as a craft for all survivors. Al ot of people would enjoy that, it could spice up Wortox's gameplay with an interesting strategy. It would be a nice added quirk in this update.

[Mysterious box]

13 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Okay so assuming the next stage of the skill makes bombs hold 6 mosquitos i feel like that can be viable as a distraction for horde mobs or single target enemies. Also mosquitos kite so they aren't going to die that quick unless the enemy has aoe. 

Thinking of a scenario real quick, let's say you get a pirate raid. If you throw 2 bombs onto their boat that's gonna be 8-12 mosquitos they have to deal with. They kind of suck damage wise but idk i feel like they could get some weight off your back during a fight.

My issue here is merms already fill that role and even then unless they really streamline that process like allowing you to pick up mosquitos without a bug net and only requiring mosquitos and their sacks as crafting material I feel like they'll just come off as more expensive less effective merms.

[BalkanCockroach]

15 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

My issue here is merms already fill that role and even then unless they really streamline that process like allowing you to pick up mosquitos without a bug net and only requiring mosquitos and their sacks as crafting material I feel like they'll just come off as more expensive less effective merms.

Merms aren't distraction tho (i guess they are good for that too), they either flank or deal damage. Mosquitos are a way to stall the enemy or escape. You can't shove merms into a ball and yeet them to the enemy. Also you can't always have a merm ready to go unlike the mosquitos  which are basically pokemon. 

 

21 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Its fine as an item, but i dont think this should be part of Wurt's skilltree. She had merms for this (do the mosquitos and the sack hurt merms?).

It would be better as a craft for all survivors. Al ot of people would enjoy that, it could spice up Wortox's gameplay with an interesting strategy. It would be a nice added quirk in this update.

Yeah, but it fits the theme of swamp inhabitant much more. Also it's not really that great if the mosquitos aren't passive to you. 

[Jakepeng99]

13 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Also it's not really that great if the mosquitos aren't passive to you. 

Exactly.

Built for Wurt, available for everyone. Its the lunar funcap code. Perfect.

[Mysterious box]

39 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Merms aren't distraction tho (i guess they are good for that too), they either flank or deal damage. Mosquitos are a way to stall the enemy or escape. You can't shove merms into a ball and yeet them to the enemy. Also you can't always have a merm ready to go unlike the mosquitos  which are basically pokemon. 

Merms fill the same role since it's not like you can choose each individual target in a horde and in a one on one situation there's only one target for them to lock on to. Not to mention that mosquitoes swarm on whoever hits them meaning even if you have multiple they'll still just hone in on one or two enemies just like merms.

[BalkanCockroach]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Merms fill the same role since it's not like you can choose each individual target in a horde and in a one on one situation there's only one target for them to lock on to. Not to mention that mosquitoes swarm on whoever hits them meaning even if you have multiple they'll still just hone in on one or two enemies just like merms.

You can't pop out 4 merms whenever you want. And i'm positive on stream they said the bomb mosquitos target mobs. 

[X-lem]

The biggest change I think Wurt needs is a skill tree that allows the king to remain longer without having to be fed/appeased/whatever. I think currently his max is 4 days which seems so short.

[marshyds]

Please... the wurt skilltree is all i have left of my father...

If they think wurt would be too strong with a good and interesting skilltree then just NERF existing stuff.

This way it would make room for more nuance and actual merm society stuff instead of more brainless drones for punching the raid bosses.

even if wurt is op, she is mind numbingly boring once you've tried out all of her 2 identical merms that are only differentiated by their stats...

 

[Wormboi]

I all want them to do is give wurt different types of merms other than the two basic ones

[Echsrick]

2 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

 

Mosquito Bomb: It looks weak, and doesnt make sense to add to Wurt. It doesn't add on or expand her playstyle. It is not nessisarly a flawed item, but why is this one of Wurt's main things?

 

sounds like a bee mine but....worse probably

[Mortalbane]

Even if for a second i think that mosquito bomb may be fun to use as a weapon, i stop that thought when i remember the sound mosquitoes make

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, BalkanCockroach said:

And i'm positive on stream they said the bomb mosquitos target mobs

They did, but mosquitos are already aggressive to all mobs, so we don't know what they mean by that. (My opinion would remain the same regardless they do 3 damage)

 

Would rather kill an enemy than distract it.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, BalkanCockroach said:

You can't pop out 4 merms whenever you want. And i'm positive on stream they said the bomb mosquitos target mobs. 

I mean yea you can't make them pop out at will but you can bring them with you where you go so I don't really see the difference even more so when you get guards who make it easier to maintain larger groups. As for the targeting from what I remember they did say they would target mobs nearby but you are going to make like 50 of them and throw them at each individual mob in a horde you see? That sounds very tedious any annoying to get the targeting right and again that before even knowing how resource intensive these things will be to mass produce. Against a horde you'll simply have a easier time making merms pull the aggro with weapon cancels and for a 1v1 the merms can just rush them. Mosquitos do seem like they'll be a fun toy but at least as we've seen them so far they'll be far from useful vs our existing options.

[Jakepeng99]

58 minutes ago, marshyds said:

If they think wurt would be too strong with a good and interesting skilltree then just NERF existing stuff.

I am all for them reworking Wurt.

She is op when she has tons of merms. Her power cap is how many merms you can be bothered to get. I don't know how to fix that issue though. Its perplexing to do without something artificial and weird like 10 merms max.

[BalkanCockroach]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

you are going to make like 50 of them and throw them at each individual mob in a horde you see?

No you see the horde and throw it then the mosquitos draw aggro from the horde.

[Jakepeng99]

3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Mosquitos do seem like they'll be a fun toy but at least as we've seen them so far they'll be far from useful vs our existing options.

It would be good if Walter and Wortox could craft them. Their playstyle synergises with it.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, BalkanCockroach said:

No you see the horde and throw it then the mosquitos draw aggro from the horde.

Okay then that's even worse why not just weapon cancel a boomerang at that point it actually doesn't even have a cost?

[Jakepeng99]

Just now, BalkanCockroach said:

No you see the horde and throw it then the mosquitos draw aggro from the horde.

It clashes with her merm followers (maybe even anti-synergy if mosquitos and the aoe bombs hit them) so i don't think it works on a design level.

 

It is probably good for distracting rock jaws and running away.