Winona changes and skill tree concept

[grm9]

15 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

oh i get it now you are out of arguments

with what am i supposed to argue? you have stopped saying anything related

15 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

remember that most people are not the influencers of this game, just cause a famous person say it, doesnt mean its true

how is this related to anything at all?

15 minutes ago, NekoSoulx said:

Winona supremacy power is raising... in my heart <3

that can literally be done faster as winona without catapults 

[Swiyss]

Ok so first of all, I read everything like it was Klei doing it so I can get an 100% unbiased opinion.

On 5/3/2024 at 5:22 AM, Mortalbane said:

- when above 50% hunger, Winona has increased crafting speed. When below 50% - reduced.

I don't like this. It would defeat the purpose of the character. We only craft things in mass every once in a while anyways. The quick crafts when in danger are the actual benefits from this perk she has.

On 5/3/2024 at 5:22 AM, Mortalbane said:

- Trusty Tape requires papyrus instead of grass to be crafted, and has charges, like the Sewing Kit.
It cannot be used on clothing, but instead is used to restore some durability to tools, non-magical weapons and armor.
It can stop boat leaks, restoring a very small amount of boat hp.
It can patch up Thermal Stone, which by the way a sewing kit should be unable to do. Cuz how do you sew up a stone?

- Winona’s generators and GEMerators can be turned on and off. I'd also nerf the amount of structures they can support by default, and increase it back in the skill tree.

- Winona’s catapults don’t regenerate health, but using Trusty Tape on them restores a moderate amount of hp.

- Searchlight is replaced by the Lightstick, which is basically an electrical lantern on a stick, but with yellow light and slightly smaller radius.

I don't like trusty tape having charges as it doesn't make sense. But I do enjoy it requiring papyrus instead of grass, however it then had to be buffed, not nerfed. I think I'm confused here because some of the things you listed are already true so..

The turning on and off of the gemerators and generators makes SO much sense. Storing energy is a MUST for her. So many times I wasted charges just because the boss died too quickly. And in multiplayer it's even less impactful.

I prefer catapults hp regen currently. Not cool to have to manage it's hp during a fight.

The lightstick sounds interesting, but it has to be a lunar perk and make it so it makes the enlightened crown light range bigger. That would be a small perk. Like an upgrade from a lunar winona.

On 5/3/2024 at 5:22 AM, Mortalbane said:

Expert toolmaker branch

perk examples:

- make better versions of starting tools, which in addition to flint and twigs also require stone, but have more uses.
To avoid creating new names for tools, they can have Winona’s before their name. Would be nice to also see slightly changed visuals.

- make better golden tools that have even more uses, including the Sumptuous Hammer.

- learn to build Tool Rack, a high-capacity chest that only stores tools.

- increase mining/chopping/hammering damage done by the tools Winona makes.

- while above 50% hunger, Winona has increased mining/chopping/hammering speed.

- Trusty tape has more charges.

- Trusty tape restores more durability to tools and gear and repairs more of the catapults and boat hp, if used by Winona.

The better versions sound awesome. Would be cool to have slighty higher durability on regular tools, specially gold ones.

A tool rack is also MUCH needed in the game. In pubs the amount of tools dropped on the ground because of how little space the chests have contribute to the lag and the unorganized bases. A tool rack specific for her would make her way more necessary and impactful in groups, but also alone AND as a swap character. It's a win win.

I don't like increased mining chopping or hammering efficiency by her. But if it was added, I wouldn't complain, the character would feel way stronger to play.

The speed is useless imo. There are way better options in the game, and it's not like every rock or pighouse require 50 uses anyway, you're only there for some time.

trusty tape perks has to be the most useless thing ever haha. Sorry but I would hate this. It's taking space for other more creative ideas that could be implemented.

On 5/3/2024 at 5:22 AM, Mortalbane said:

Expert builder branch

perk examples:

- catapult perks, like increased health / damage / attack speed.

- non-magical structures hammered by Winona yield 100% materials. This would make her catapults portable, as well as making basebuilding a lot easier in many ways.

- non-magical structures made by Winona require less materials to build.

- learn to build Worker Cabin, a tent made out of boards and cut stone, which has more uses and restores hp and sanity faster when sleeping in it. Or it can restore stats at normal rate, but have infinite uses. Or it can be used at any time of the day, but drain more hunger. Because we know that workers do nothing in their cabins but having lunch.

- learn to build Spacious Chest with 12 slots.

- learn to build Sturdy Wall and Sturdy Gate, which are longer (several wall units), and aren’t destroyed by catapults. People use all sorts of weird objects as walls in their farms, so why not just give them normal walls.

increased damage is kinda nice, but I would prefer if some of it was planar. That would already be great. Like 50 regular + 10 planar.

100% materials would make the deconstruction staff completely useless and it really is a horrible idea.

Less materials? That would throw the balanced all the way to the roof. Character would simply turn stupid broken in an unfun way completely for no reason whatsoever. Green amulet??? 

Infinite tent by her would also defeat the whole purpose of having normal tents. And, if it had higher uses it would then be useless. I wouldn't mind using a regular tent if this was added. I think I gain nothing from it.

Spacious chests for a skilltree would make the current elastispacer very underwhelming. It would also imply them making skins for every chest again. Btw we already have the dfly chest so this becomes even more useless.

Walls that don't break from catapults would be a very bad way of fixing this issue I think.

On 5/3/2024 at 5:22 AM, Mortalbane said:

Electrical engineer branch

perk examples:

- increase maximum number of buildings supported by generators and GEMerators.

- reduce energy consumed by the supported buildings, or increase energy capacity of all generator types.

- learn to upgrade generators with lightning rods. They will now absorb lightning to refuel some of the charge.

- learn to craft Power Cells from nitre and gold, which refuel generators by a lot.

- learn to craft a Potato Battery out of a giant potato (yeah, i saw Klei concept art for that one). It acts as a regular generator, but with low energy pool. It can't be turned off, and stops working once the potato spoils, then a new giant potato has to be carried to it.

- learn to craft electric versions of Lantern and Miner Hat, which are recharged by generators and power cells, but can’t be refueled with bulbs/fireflies anymore. Their light color also becomes yellow rather than white.

- learn to craft Portable Generator, a backpack that can only store nitre and power cells, and has its own charge shown as durability. When equipped or placed on the ground, it acts like a usual generator, recharging all electrical equipment and powering structures in a small radius. Portable generator uses the stored nitre or power cells to replenish its charge. When you are hit while wearing the portable generator with enough charge, the attacker receives electrical damage at the cost of some charge.

- learn to craft Battle Prod, a weapon with charge shown as durability. When charged, it acts as a weaker version of the Morning Star. It doesn’t break upon reaching 0 charge, but loses almost all damage.

first one is a great addition.

Reduced energy is very unnecessary. Again, it would be a missed opportunity for a better, more creative perk.

That lighting perk sounds like it would be very situational. Maybe for an added character perk yes, but for a point in a skill tree? no.

Power cells sounds very great.

Potato generator sounds super cool, but in practice is lackluster. I would much prefer a giant potato having a specific thing that only that structure can do. Only giving energy sounds lame, it's even worse than a regular generator.

New lantern and minerhat sounds very great. This perk alone would make her a very great character, specially if it's not that expensive or lasts longer.

That's already too many perks with generators, I would much prefer new things be added rather than just more generators.

I would prefer if the "battle prod" had a different name. I think that if it looked something similar to a scrapyard weapon would be great also.

On 5/3/2024 at 5:22 AM, Mortalbane said:

Affinity perks

Shadow

- create Shadow Power Cells using nightmare fuel.

- craft a variety of Thulecite tools and gear.

- make a Nightmare Fuel Extractor, a trap that catches a single nightmare creature and slowly kills it, dropping a lot of fuel in the process. Originally i thought about it for Wilson or WX in my reworks, but Winona is also a good candidate for this.

 

Lunar

- GEMerators give special effects to the catapults they power, depending on the socketed gems.

- some scrap-related stuff. Perhaps, Wagstaff’s Thumper can be imported from Hamlet, since Wagstaff isn’t going to be playable. Or some excavation machine, which will be a slow but infinite source of stone-related stuff. Or some portals, like Winona made in her animated short, allowing to create your own wormholes. Or robots and drones. With tech, any gameplay mechanic can be added

Shadow power cell is the lamest thing possible, sorry but it just sounds soo lazy.

We don't need more thulecite gear, nor better ones, SPECIALLY locked behind 1 character skill tree.

that trap sounds weirdly good. It would have to be very well placed to not sound too op or useless.

what effects?

another lazy thing that would not be very impactful. And if it is, locking it behind a skill tree is again a bad idea IMO.

 

I would like if she could upgrade existing gear like the miner hat and lantern. That for me was the best idea. It's also crazy to me how she has the biggest potential for both sides. She can side with her own sister or her biggest idol.

But for affinities, I would much prefer if Charlie had mercy on her and gave her the best affinity in the game, like 20% damage against lunar creatures, then roses appear on shadow weapons to represent her sister. Would be cool if her main shadow perk was a shadow thurible perk, where charlie reveals the night for her while holding it, making so winona has some control over the constant. Like a lesser queen.

For lunar, she definitely needs a way to absorb/change/manipulate moon shards, moon rock etc..

As I said, she has the biggest potential of all characters when it comes to affinity, so Klei must make her one of the last ones imo.

[GimplyGoose]

39 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

100% materials would make the deconstruction staff completely useless and it really is a horrible idea.

My initial impression was the same, hammering stuff for 100% materials back seems too strong, but after thinking about it, I've changed my mind. Most of what you use a deconstruction staff for is items not structures. You can't hammer items so this is not nearly as powerful as an infinite deconstruction staff.

Of all the OP's suggestions, this one is actually my favorite. It is simple and it would be great for base building. One thing it might be too good for is structures that spawn mobs, like pig houses or bunnyman hutches, since it would potentially mean an infinite amount of those mobs for the low cost of hammer durability. Maybe tuning it down to 75% rounded up would address that problem.

At 75% rounded up, anything that would take 3 or fewer materials would still return 100% of the cost, so it would still mean that you could relocate things like chests for free.