Shadow fire raiser buffs are good enough

[Sir Noel]

I think the buffs we've seen so far are good, tendrils now properly attack enemies agro'd onto you and you can pretty easily take out things like hound waves/walrus just like lunar. Boss damage is also good while allowing you to be at a safe distance while you cast. 

Which is why I say they are "good enough". But even still, compared to lunar, I think it will still be the less preferred option. Lunar is also fantastic against bosses while still being way better against hordes. Another thing is that you don't need to initiate the agro before you can cast, you can just walk up to something and blast it (now you can properly move and aim with mouse as well!). It just feels like you have more control with it compared to shadow which will just attack whatever. 

There is also the "not enough lunar enemies to attack with shadow" aspect but this will definitely change with time. 

If this is it for shadow fire changes I would be okay with it, but I think if you want it to really compete, maybe you can set a target for the cast? I know this kind of goes against the nature of the spell in the first place (tendrils will auto target for you) but maybe allowing one target of your choice on the initial cast can help give more control to the player on what they want to damage first and foremost. Otherwise the spell is good enough.

[Yuuko]

idk, I think both options are pretty good.  Lunar wins for aoe so clearing waves of hounds, shadow monkeys, etc are much easier with it but the damage of shadow is higher and it casts very quick to unload full damage letting you get even more damage by attacking again sooner.  I think both spots are in a good state currently. 

[Sir Noel]

50 minutes ago, Yuuko said:

idk, I think both options are pretty good.  Lunar wins for aoe so clearing waves of hounds, shadow monkeys, etc are much easier with it but the damage of shadow is higher and it casts very quick to unload full damage letting you get even more damage by attacking again sooner.  I think both spots are in a good state currently. 

Agreed, after using both for a while I’d say they each have their uses. Lunar for me works more for different cases and is a bit easier to use but, doesn’t mean shadow is bad because of it. If it stayed this way for a while I wouldn’t mind, but eh, I’ll still be biased for shadow side anyway and if it means I have to sacrifice lunar fire for shadow bernie I will take it hehe

[HeatAndRun]

After this QoL update the shadow flame definitely got its own unique use. Still I  prefer lunar flame over shadow too, but that doesn't mean shadow flame is bad. It's because lunar flame is too good. If only shadow flame costs less embers less than 5..

[Valase]

I believe that people forget to account for their cast times, you can cast the shadow version and go back into action instantly, while the lunar one is AoE damage that stops you from hitting.

[Sir Noel]

2 hours ago, Valase said:

I believe that people forget to account for their cast times, you can cast the shadow version and go back into action instantly, while the lunar one is AoE damage that stops you from hitting.

Oh I’m aware, that’s why I enjoy using it! All I meant was that beginning fights was slightly more inconvenient, as you require the agro first. This is only a problem for some neutral/hostile enemies that require you to get close and/or attack first, which gets weird when faced with many enemies at once, and you can’t really pick who to target down first. In those situations I find lunar simply easier to use as it does more damage to more things faster and lets you better control who you want to kill first, but it’s just a nitpick.

[Frosty_Mentos]

I'll say Lunar is only good cause there's just enough creatures and bosses that are swarmers than combattiers themselves. Boss reworks are in order to make it feel like both abilities are worth their bit of usefulness to fullest. Bernie though been an MVP overall personally due to being universal defense, tank, damage dealer.