Maxwell's skill tree wishes

[Gi-Go]

Maxwell is currently my favorite character and I can't imagen him getting even stronger due to skill tree. So instead I'd like to suggest skills that don't really buff him but will make me a lot happier when I'm playing. 

1. Fearless workers who completly ignore any danger, and also give you loot even if you are fighting. Fear is meaningless now that the workers are very cheap and is only interfering with work. For exsample I can't harvest boss loot from tentacle traps because workers are terrified of a mob that dosen't even target them. As for them not giving you items while you fight... I just don't get why klei even added this. Zero clue. Simple butterfly punch or a sanity creature fight stops workers from doing their job. 

2. Careless workers who pick up litteraly anything including stuff in crockpot, drying racks, light bulbs on the ground , and even gems in telebase. Anything. This QoL feature that stopped them from grabbing stuff that I supposedly don't want really pisses me off. They were so easy to manage. You get to deside where they spawn, what they grab, when they give it to you, and if they'll continue harvesting afterwards or die. I don't need this restriction, I can micromanage them to never pick up stuff I don't want them to, without this crutch.

3. Massive sanity regen increase. Restoring sanity as Maxwell is meaningless as you will loose 80% or more of it every time you try to use workers or duelists. Not to mention being insane is free nightmare fuel. This is more of a downside really but I do love the bright colors. 

4. Affinity skill to make shadow creatures never spawn. I just don't like them. Using cage while having 5 duelists will make shadow creatures target you and because they are stupid they'll continue to attack you for God knows how long even if you have sanity food and was insane for just 1 second. 4 duelists is not enough for me, instead I summon all 6 and simply kill terrorbeaks while letting crawling horrors chase me forever to not let terrorbeaks spawn again. And then bone helmet trivializes them anyways. It's also more of a downside really you'll have to rely on shadow sneak for fuel. They are just mildly annoying is my point. 

5. The most important one. Workers should leave their work circle to give Maxwell loot. Duelists will leave their circle to fight so I don't see why workers can't. If you'll summon 5 workers in a forest they'll chop trees, grab random item like pinecone or a twig or just 20 logs and then die (unless you are in 5 places at once somehow which is a technique I did not master). Same with boulders - they'll grab flint for exsample and then die leaving nitre rocks and gold completely untouched. I just don't get the design choice of making workers die while there's still work to be done is that like a nerf or something? 

6. Right click on a spell to deactivate it. Gives a choice to remove all cages, activate all shadow sneaks, kill all duelists or all workers. A simple QoL thingy to have more control for better gaming experience. 

7. Dance to calm down duelists. I already suggested this in Maxwell beta and it was approved, but executed rather poorly. Duelists will not calm down just because you danced, they will only do so after running all the way to you and dancing themselves. And even then half the time they maintain their agro or even get stuck dancing forever. Practice shows that in situations where I'd want them to drop agro - waiting for them to catch up and do dance is just not an option. This is optional I don't care all that much.

And that's it. I don't need any buffs to duelists or cage they are already pretty good. 

[DownloadADuck]

3 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

don't really buff him

 

4 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

shadow creatures never spawn. I just don't like them.

Wow I love not buffing Maxwell by removing an entire stat, removing a sizable chunk of the character, and by doing so removing in my opinion his most impactful downside

 

4 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Massive sanity regen increase

Why would this even matter if you don't even really have sanity anymore from your next suggestion

[Gi-Go]

3 hours ago, DownloadADuck said:

Wow I love not buffing Maxwell by removing an entire stat, removing a sizable chunk of the character, and by doing so removing in my opinion his most impactful downside

 

Why would this even matter if you don't even really have sanity anymore from your next suggestion

1. Like I said I view shadows as an annoying upside. Nightmare fuel delivery. The only time shadows are a threat is when I'm rushing bee queen or dragonfly and on those situations I completely ignore crawling horrors because fighting them will cause nightmare beaks to spawn. So that's litteraly it 2 very slow annoying guys follow me around while I fight boss untill I get bone hat which dosen't take a while that's his main downside? 

2. The same reason it matters right now. Purely to not have ugly filter on my screen. 

[readkey]

I think his skill tree will be somehow similar to Wolfgang’s - gain planar damage on the puppets so that they are still doing enough damage to planar enemies, and then other skills are just QoL. 

[Mysterious box]

19 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

So instead I'd like to suggest skills that don't really buff him but will make me a lot happier when I'm playing. 

 

19 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

1. Fearless workers who completly ignore any danger, and also give you loot even if you are fighting. Fear is meaningless now that the workers are very cheap and is only interfering with work. For exsample I can't harvest boss loot from tentacle traps because workers are terrified of a mob that dosen't even target them. As for them not giving you items while you fight... I just don't get why klei even added this. Zero clue. Simple butterfly punch or a sanity creature fight stops workers from doing their job. 

This is a buff as it removes one of the downsides of servants that being that they're cowardly

19 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

3. Massive sanity regen increase. Restoring sanity as Maxwell is meaningless as you will loose 80% or more of it every time you try to use workers or duelists. Not to mention being insane is free nightmare fuel. This is more of a downside really but I do love the bright colors. 

This is also a big buff I really don't understand how this wouldn't be considered one considering Maxwell has alternatives to gaining nightmare fuel

19 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

4. Affinity skill to make shadow creatures never spawn. I just don't like them. Using cage while having 5 duelists will make shadow creatures target you and because they are stupid they'll continue to attack you for God knows how long even if you have sanity food and was insane for just 1 second. 4 duelists is not enough for me, instead I summon all 6 and simply kill terrorbeaks while letting crawling horrors chase me forever to not let terrorbeaks spawn again. And then bone helmet trivializes them anyways. It's also more of a downside really you'll have to rely on shadow sneak for fuel. They are just mildly annoying is my point. 

So let me get this straight you want to give Maxwell the ability of a end game boss drop as a passive skill and your trying to sell it as a downside? How about we also make it so Wanda's backtrek watch doesn't use tusks anymore I mean if anything it'd make it harder to make backtrek watches right?

Honestly everything you've listed are straight buffs aside from 2, 6, and 7

[mykenception]

20 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Fearless workers who completly ignore any danger, and also give you loot even if you are fighting. Fear is meaningless now that the workers are very cheap and is only interfering with work. For exsample I can't harvest boss loot from tentacle traps because workers are terrified of a mob that dosen't even target them. As for them not giving you items while you fight... I just don't get why klei even added this. Zero clue. Simple butterfly punch or a

workers get one shot by anything

if your workers ignore hazards then you'll easily lose them. I thought this was obvious 

20 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Massive sanity regen increase. Restoring sanity as Maxwell is meaningless as you will loose 80% or more of it every time you try to use workers or duelists. Not to mention being insane is free nightmare fuel. This is more of a downside really but I do love the bright colors. 

I do think there's any need to buff the passive sanity regen

20 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Affinity skill to make shadow creatures never spawn. I just don't like them. Using cage while having 5 duelists will make shadow creatures target you and because they are stupid they'll continue to attack you for God knows how long even if you have sanity food and was insane for just 1 second. 4 duelists is not enough for me, instead I summon all 6 and simply kill terrorbeaks while letting crawling horrors chase me forever to not let terrorbeaks spawn again. And then bone helmet trivializes them anyways. It's also more of a downside really you'll have to rely on shadow sneak for fuel. They are just mildly annoying is my point. 

wouldn't that mean you'd lose one of your main sources of fuel? sure you can still use sneak on bunnies but thats just a nerf for him in that regard

but by then, idk how that'd translate to multiplayer, would any characters not summon shadow creatures around him? would shadow creatures just won't aggro to him if they spawned from other characters?

If maxwell is immune to sanity downsides then he'd just be unstoppable and spam cast everywhere as well as wicker's books

I'm more in tuned to reducing the sanity cap with the summons so you can summon more while having a good amound of sanity left. (though I don't really think he needs more summons ngl)

[Gi-Go]

11 hours ago, mykenception said:

workers get one shot by anything

if your workers ignore hazards then you'll easily lose them. I thought this was obvious 

Workers are afraid of litteraly everything but only ever get attacked by Hound and tree guards. And those 2 mobs clap them regardless.

The only thing that's obvious is that you haven't played Maxwell enough. 

[mykenception]

10 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

The only thing that's obvious is that you haven't played Maxwell enough. 

I've played him with on 3 worlds all solo, 1 on to make a not so mega base, another for a boss rush and lastly for a lights out run

anyways, the workers avoiding hazards is fine for me. in a situation where I'm  farming wood and a treeguard shows up, they'll be able to run away a bit up until I managed to get the treeguard's aggro so they can go back to working.

I think there are other things that maxwell could get than these kinds of tweaks

[Gi-Go]

3 minutes ago, mykenception said:

I've played him with on 3 worlds all solo, 1 on to make a not so mega base, another for a boss rush and lastly for a lights out run

anyways, the workers avoiding hazards is fine for me. in a situation where I'm  farming wood and a treeguard shows up, they'll be able to run away a bit up until I managed to get the treeguard's aggro so they can go back to working.

I think there are other things that maxwell could get than these kinds of tweaks

It's not fine for me. This is like the only instance that can be considered useful and like good job you saved 0.20 fuel. And It's not even i thing for me because it would be faster and less boring to do other things while workers chop in the background and then use a new squad to pick everything up. I don't protect them from tree guards. 

Either way, the most obnoxious part is when they run away from bone helmet shadows and it was already fixed so it's not too big of a deal. They just don't cooperate with tentacles, lureplants and get distracted by random shadow creatures I'm fighting. 

But this is what I want from skill tree. Just small QoL things. I don't want crazy buffs like this thing you suggest with more followers. 

12 hours ago, mykenception said:

I don't* think there's any need to buff the passive sanity regen

Why not? Reworked Maxwell looses sanity on an unprecedented scale. You have only 2 options. Be insane or be nearly insane. I can't imagen using sanity food or God forbid sanity auras as Maxwell, just to loose it all again next time you wanna use his perks. 

16 hours ago, readkey said:

I think his skill tree will be somehow similar to Wolfgang’s - gain planar damage on the puppets so that they are still doing enough damage to planar enemies, and then other skills are just QoL. 

I really don't get the design choice behind planar damage. They make these special late game enemies that need a special late game gear and then they just give every character planar damage regardless. Wasn't the whole point to make them tanky without increasing hp so that the planar weapons would damage them effectively without melting not late game greatures? 

I don't want planar damage on puppets. They already destroy the cave trio, they ignore cave rifts mobs regardless, and they provide decent enough support for brightshades. 

[mykenception]

7 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

I don't want crazy buffs like this thing you suggest with more followers.

It's a suggestion as a form of compromise to deal with your uber need for 5 shadows without suffering insanity downside. I also don't find the need for more followers but since you can't be satisfied then thats the closest thing I can suggest.

8 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Why not? Reworked Maxwell looses sanity on an unprecedented scale. You have only 2 options. Be insane or be nearly insane. I can't imagen using sanity food or God forbid sanity auras as Maxwell, just to loose it all again next time you wanna use his perks. 

Why not? what you're actively suggestive is to give maxwell a free pass on insanity, to downright undermine one of the consequences of him abusing shadows. we already have a method that allows maxwell to go past this downside (Bonehelm) and just removing the effects of shadow creature aggro from maxwell and also buffing him with so much sanity regen, you might as well remove sanity mechanic to him altogether. 

Can you not see how much of a buff this is to an already OP character 

[Gi-Go]

1 minute ago, mykenception said:

Can you not see how much of a buff this is to an already OP character 

No I cannot. You have to walk me thought on this one. How would 20+ sanity per minute would affect the gameplay on a character that currently has 6+ sanity a minute. 

What will change exsactly? 

8 minutes ago, mykenception said:

you might as well remove sanity mechanic to him altogether. 

Well yeah, I don't see why not. Maxwell's sanity meter to me is litteraly just his duelists number meter. 

13 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This is a buff as it removes one of the downsides of servants that being that they're cowardly

Ah yes, the iconic Maxwell's downside: bad AI. 

[Mysterious box]

20 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

No I cannot. You have to walk me thought on this one. How would 20+ sanity per minute would affect the gameplay on a character that currently has 6+ sanity a minute. 

What will change exsactly? 

Less sanity management in various situations including combat this is like saying hey Wormwood has passive hp gain so I don't see how making him recover 20 hp a minute would have any affect on gameplay

22 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Well yeah, I don't see why not. Maxwell's sanity meter to me is litteraly just his duelists number meter.

This is just operating in bad faith.

23 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Ah yes, the iconic Maxwell's downside: bad AI.

I see didn't realize when mobs panic from bee queen it was just a result of the ai being bad not a intentional mechanic related to fear.

[Gi-Go]

13 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

So let me get this straight you want to give Maxwell the ability of a end game boss drop as a passive skill and your trying to sell it as a downside?

Ye.

 

Also fuelweaver is not a late game boss he is a rather high priority for Maxwell and should probably die before deerclops shows up. 

[readkey]

31 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

I really don't get the design choice behind planar damage. They make these special late game enemies that need a special late game gear and then they just give every character planar damage regardless. Wasn't the whole point to make them tanky without increasing hp so that the planar weapons would damage them effectively without melting not late game greatures? 

Planar damage given to characters is simply letting their perks not falling off too hard post-rift. Otherwise there is no reason to use Wolfgang post-rift - you waste time on the dumbbell but only do a tiny bit more damage to the new enemies.
 

That doesn’t mean their perks now ignore the addition of planar damage. The weremoose deals way less damage than Woodie with a brightshade, and even with Wolfgang the physical damage part of brightsahde still get blocked by planar defense.  

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Gi-Go said:

Ye.

Be honest you don't know what buff means do you?

1 minute ago, Gi-Go said:

Also fuelweaver is not a late game boss he is a rather high priority for Maxwell and should probably die before deerclops shows up. 

You do realize he's litterally required to access the shadow side of the endgame right? Not to mention the original final boss of dst before the endgame was added.

[Gi-Go]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

You do realize he's litterally required to access the shadow side of the endgame right? Not to mention the original final boss of dst before the endgame was added.

Not much of an endgame then, is it? And there are no final bosses in dst. 

[Mysterious box]

1 minute ago, Gi-Go said:

Not much of an endgame then, is it? And there are no final bosses in dst. 

I mean would you prefer they time gated it more so it reaches your standards of a end game? The idea is that we're more experienced so we can access it much faster using that experience while it's not really possible for the average player until much later.

[Gi-Go]

11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Be honest you don't know what buff means do you?

Getting rid of pests is not it. Daywalker is such a relatable character. When you remove his chains it really sums up the whole insanity thing. Just constant harrassment by annoying fleas. 

But as much as I hate shadow creatures after 10k hours of wiker maining, I'd take them over farming for sanity any day. Nothing feels more discouraging in this game than spending time and effort into restoring an optional meter, just for it to go down in an instant the moment you deside to use your characters perks - the very reason you want to play as them. There is no escape. Sanity meter just sucks and the less I have to deal with it - the better. 

[Mysterious box]

7 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Getting rid of pests is not it. Daywalker is such a relatable character. When you remove his chains it really sums up the whole insanity thing. Just constant harrassment by annoying fleas. 

But as much as I hate shadow creatures after 10k hours of wiker maining, I'd take them over farming for sanity any day. Nothing feels more discouraging in this game than spending time and effort into restoring an optional meter, just for it to go down in an instant the moment you deside to use your characters perks - the very reason you want to play as them. There is no escape. Sanity meter just sucks and the less I have to deal with it - the better. 

Well I mean you could just use the bone helm and lower the sanity filter I mean that it is his best helmet for a reason. Also him draining sanity to use his spells is suppose to fall in line with the lore of the codex being a dangerous double edged sword.

Also if dealing with sanity is a pain you could use less summons at a time and produce more sanity foods.

[Gi-Go]

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Well I mean you could just use the bone helm and lower the sanity filter I mean that it is his best helmet for a reason. Also him draining sanity to use his spells is suppose to fall in line with the lore of the codex being a dangerous double edged sword.

Also if dealing with sanity is a pain you could use less summons at a time and produce more sanity foods.

My issue with bone helmet is that shadows don't dispawn when you take it off, even if your sanity is full. They still gonna harrass you. 

As for farming sanity and not using perks that's the core issue I mentioned before. Shadow are so annoying because ultimately they are the best option. By choosing to avoid them I shoot my own foot and end up farming resources i don't need and avoid using perks i love. It's just better to fight them or in case of Maxwell who is rushing bq or df it's best to tank/ignore them. which gets exhausting and ruins gameplay. 

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

My issue with bone helmet is that shadows don't dispawn when you take it off, even if your sanity is full. They still gonna harrass you. 

As for farming sanity and not using perks that's the core issue I mentioned before. Shadow are so annoying because ultimately they are the best option. By choosing to avoid them I shoot my own foot and end up farming resources i don't need and avoid using perks i love. It's just better to fight them or in case of Maxwell who is rushing bq or df it's best to tank/ignore them. which gets exhausting and ruins gameplay. 

That's called risk vs reward though it's good game design no?

[Gi-Go]

7 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

That's called risk vs reward though it's good game design no?

Which part? 

[mykenception]

21 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

No I cannot. You have to walk me thought on this one. How would 20+ sanity per minute would affect the gameplay on a character that currently has 6+ sanity a minute. 

What will change exsactly? 

 

21 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Well yeah, I don't see why not. Maxwell's sanity meter to me is litteraly just his duelists number meter. 

 

21 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Also fuelweaver is not a late game boss he is a rather high priority for Maxwell and should probably die before deerclops shows up. 

I have reached the conclusion that the OP is either blindsided by his view of what game balance is or just a plain troll. 

Either way, I will no longer take your points seriously 

[Mysterious box]

12 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Which part? 

You casting spells and using the helmet puts you under threat of insanity and nightmare creatures at some point = risk

You get servants that help you gather and fight as well as spells that panic, bind, and transform other mobs = reward.

[Gi-Go]

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

You casting spells and using the helmet puts you under threat of insanity and nightmare creatures at some point = risk

You get servants that help you gather and fight as well as spells that panic, bind, and transform other mobs = reward.

Terrorbeaks do 5 damage crawling horrors do 2 damage. Now that's some serious risk right there.