Speedrunning. The most cost-efficient way of playing the game.

[Swiyss]

Can anyone help me with tips for speedruning the celestial champion? I wanna know what the most efficient strat is.

I've been speedrunning lately and killed cc on day 58 without mods but I think we can start from the beginning.

 

[Swiyss]

I feel like having to add a mod to not use the orb is kinda cheating (even tho it is acceptable at the official speedrun site). So Klei could make a way to force spawn them maybe? Oh and bearger on first autumn please. 

[grm9]

3 hours ago, Swiyss said:

So Klei could make a way to force spawn them maybe?

people are asking for a way to consistently get it without RNG for more than 2 years now iirc, it isn't guaranteed even after day 60 because it can only spawn if a large moonrock boulder meteor spawns after day 60, which is never guaranteed to spawn

there were a lot of suggestions, e.g. spawning it immediately after doing the moonstone event or going to lunar island for the first time or activating the moonstorms but atm it still didn't get changed so that's the workaround for now so you don't end up with a run that's impossible to complete until you get good RNG

you should watch the current WR to see what's the general strat and think about potential improvements, e.g. not making prestihatitator, shadow manipulator, fridge and crockpots, you can also join the discord server about DST speedrunning, the link is on DST's speedrun.com page

[Swiyss]

5 hours ago, grm9 said:

people are asking for a way to consistently get it without RNG for more than 2 years now iirc, it isn't guaranteed even after day 60 because it can only spawn if a large moonrock boulder meteor spawns after day 60, which is never guaranteed to spawn

there were a lot of suggestions, e.g. spawning it immediately after doing the moonstone event or going to lunar island for the first time or activating the moonstorms but atm it still didn't get changed so that's the workaround for now so you don't end up with a run that's impossible to complete until you get good RNG

you should watch the current WR to see what's the general strat and think about potential improvements, e.g. not making prestihatitator, shadow manipulator, fridge and crockpots, you can also join the discord server about DST speedrunning, the link is on DST's speedrun.com page

Yeah I don't usually do crockpots or fridges in speedruns, is such a waste of time to get them. But yeah, the current wr is from lordlee, but guille made a category for cc only with the option "orbless" that uses a mod to spawn cc without the celestial orb and he killed him with wolfgang by day 26 or 27. That for me is insane because most people I see can only dream killing it before day 50 even, and that's due to the orb shenanigans.

[mr. brj]

8 hours ago, Swiyss said:

I feel like having to add a mod to not use the orb is kinda cheating

Just for clarification, you are not required to use the mod, you are just allowed to use it. I know the argument is there that not using the mod will put you at a slight disadvantage against other runners, however given the lack of interest in the Celestial Champion category, I wouldn't worry too much about that particular "slight disadvantage". As it stands, there are a whopping total of 2 valid submissions and we would obviously be needing more valid submissions first to properly evaluate the circumstances people would want to compete against each other.

And as grm said, there have been multiple suggestions regarding the orb RNG but in the end, the community decided to go with eliminating the hardcap all together instead of walking around it. Once there are enough submissions for the category, I think that will be a good time to discuss whether we should be separating the category into orbless and vanilla, or whether we should be trying to find a new ruleset for this category. I myself would lean towards the most vanilla ruleset possible as well, but the element of competition also needs to exist in a speedrunning environment and a ruleset allowing the use of the Orbless Siphonator mod ensures that this will be the case.

[Swiyss]

8 minutes ago, mr. brj said:

Just for clarification, you are not required to use the mod, you are just allowed to use it. I know the argument is there that not using the mod will put you at a slight disadvantage against other runners, however given the lack of interest in the Celestial Champion category, I wouldn't worry too much about that particular "slight disadvantage". As it stands, there are a whopping total of 2 valid submissions and we would obviously be needing more valid submissions first to properly evaluate the circumstances people would want to compete against each other.

And as grm said, there have been multiple suggestions regarding the orb RNG but in the end, the community decided to go with eliminating the hardcap all together instead of walking around it. Once there are enough submissions for the category, I think that will be a good time to discuss whether we should be separating the category into orbless and vanilla, or whether we should be trying to find a new ruleset for this category. I myself would lean towards the most vanilla ruleset possible as well, but the element of competition also needs to exist in a speedrunning environment and a ruleset allowing the use of the Orbless Siphonator mod ensures that this will be the case.

So it was decided that the game's core itself has a problem that Klei haven't fixed since 2 years so they allowed mods to overcome this issue on the biggest boss in the game in the official speedrun site.

I see this as an absolute win, however didn't change the fact that it's still a mod. Maybe if someone submit a day 40ish with orb people will start to take rng as a simply another task.

I wish there was a way to force spaw  meteors tho. Can someone that knows the game's code just tell me if walking in and out of the zone changes something? Is there a genius way to overcome the code itself rather than using a mod?

[grm9]

35 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Can someone that knows the game's code just tell me if walking in and out of the zone changes something? Is there a genius way to overcome the code itself rather than using a mod?

there are more meteors when a player is nearby but no, walking there and away from there doesn't do anything

[mr. brj]

16 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

Can someone that knows the game's code just tell me if walking in and out of the zone changes something? Is there a genius way to overcome the code itself rather than using a mod?

You are never guaranteed to get the smooth moon boulder in the early game given how many specific circumstances it requires to spawn, but being present during a meteor shower increases your chances. However, the more you look into the code, the more you will realise how the RNG of the orb is more of a lottery as opposed to an inconvenience you are rewarded for planning around.

18 minutes ago, Swiyss said:

So it was decided that the game's core itself has a problem that Klei haven't fixed since 2 years so they allowed mods to overcome this issue on the biggest boss in the game in the official speedrun site.

Not quite. Had the orb RNG been addressed, we wouldn't be having this conversation of course, but the main problem is still the lack of interest in the CC category. The mod aims to create fair grounds to all potential runners by eliminating an uncompetitive RNG in a category with close to no interest, it doesn't aim to alter the game the way we see it fit.

To put everything in much simpler words: if people were already interested in running a CC category with a ruleset that disallowed additional mods, then we wouldn't be needing the mod in the first place since competition would exist between multiple people. But as it stands, there is close to no competition in the category and people that showed interested in the category decided it would be the best to address the objectively uncompetitive aspect of the run.

This also means that if multiple people suddenly decided to submit runs without the Orbless Siphonator mod, this would prove that the competition for this specific category exists and that it needs to be handled separately. It sadly doesn't though, and to encourage competition where everyone has the same advantages, we decided to allow the mod.

[Swiyss]

5 minutes ago, mr. brj said:

You are never guaranteed to get the smooth moon boulder in the early game given how many specific circumstances it requires to spawn, but being present during a meteor shower increases your chances. However, the more you look into the code, the more you will realise how the RNG of the orb is more of a lottery as opposed to an inconvenience you are rewarded for planning around.

Not quite. Had the orb RNG been addressed, we wouldn't be having this conversation of course, but the main problem is still the lack of interest in the CC category. The mod aims to create fair grounds to all potential runners by eliminating an uncompetitive RNG in a category with close to no interest, it doesn't aim to alter the game the way we see it fit.

To put everything in much simpler words: if people were already interested in running a CC category with a ruleset that disallowed additional mods, then we wouldn't be needing the mod in the first place since competition would exist between multiple people. But as it stands, there is close to no competition in the category and people that showed interested in the category decided it would be the best to address the objectively uncompetitive aspect of the run.

This also means that if multiple people suddenly decided to submit runs without the Orbless Siphonator mod, this would prove that the competition for this specific category exists and that it needs to be handled separately. It sadly doesn't though, and to encourage competition where everyone has the same advantages, we decided to allow the mod.

I guess the issue was not fixed yet due to it being the nature of the game. They made this feature with the intent to be like it currently is, and I think there isn't a big portion of players speedrunning the game as you said to it went down in priority. I think changing it just so when you're present in a meteor shower after day 11 it always spawn. Or even add so it's guaranteed if the first full moon arrived. That would be simple and welcome idea.

But yeah, as I said, maybe thr reason they don't wanna change it is because the feature is intented to be like that. If that's the case, then I atleast wish they could go back on this little thing alone since it's not only me who is asking. But also a lot of people outsides of forums.

For me I really enjoy speedrunning cc but I haven't submitted anything yet. Currently I am playing as wx78 and I killed crab king on day 24, but I'm afraid that I'll need cheating to get the orb (and I still need to tame a beefalo to move the pieces).

[Guille6785]

11 hours ago, Swiyss said:

I feel like having to add a mod to not use the orb is kinda cheating (even tho it is acceptable at the official speedrun site). So Klei could make a way to force spawn them maybe? Oh and bearger on first autumn please. 

This is why we keep decisions like these to an absolute minimum, I personally really don't like allowing gameplay changing mods because that essentially forces everyone to use them, so the only exceptions are extreme situations where Klei isn't willing to cooperate and everyone's enjoyment is severely hindered (like in this one)

To answer your question, for killing CC as fast as possible your main priority will be to guarantee the day 11 moon event while doing pearl tasks; if your time management is excellent you can have both the pearl and the staff by day 12 but don't sweat it too much since there's still certain annoying RNG sections, this is where the most major improvements can be made

[Swiyss]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

This is why we keep decisions like these to an absolute minimum, I personally really don't like allowing gameplay changing mods because that essentially forces everyone to use them, so the only exceptions are extreme situations where Klei isn't willing to cooperate and everyone's enjoyment is severely hindered (like in this one)

To answer your question, for killing CC as fast as possible your main priority will be to guarantee the day 11 moon event while doing pearl tasks; if your time management is excellent you can have both the pearl and the staff by day 12 but don't sweat it too much since there's still certain annoying RNG sections, this is where the most major improvements can be made

I guess we could possibly get a pearl% or iridescent gem% categories maybe? Unfortunately there's not many submissions for that to happen but I guess it would be ideal.