Warly, Wolfgang, and a whole lot of Ranting.

[Just Ragnar]

Warly is currently one of the Worst characters in the game compared to Wolfgang. Both of Warly's active spice effects are available day 1 and stronger for Wolfgang. Did you farm volt goat chaud froid and peppers consistently so you can eat 12 spicy chaud froids a year to get 1.7x damage for that time? The Wolfgang that just joined now has 2x damage because he right clicked and waited 3 seconds. Set up beeboxes for honey crystals to work faster? The wolfgang that just joined now has faster working and the ability to instantly work 15% of the time. There is a clear imbalance in effort-payoff here. I suggest that Warly gets skill tree perks that make farming for his special dishes easier, and introduce a higher pay-off for said dishes. I don't like how Crepes are just 10 more sanity than Tall scotch eggs. One requires butter honey and fruits, the other requiring a tallbird egg and a carrot from the dirty ground. Maybe let Warly play cooking mama to cook dishes faster and better? I just want Warly to be fun again. Also, while you're at it, give Warly's portable cooking gear skins.

[Silversliver]

Warly is a support character. Wolfgang alone might be better at chopping and fighting than warly, though wolfgang with honey crystals makes even misery toadstool shrooms a joke, for everything else there's maxwell.

For combat, Alone wolfgang will win, but if you have even 2 people, one warly will add more damage than one wolfgang, even more so if you already have wolfgang.

I do agree that tall scotch eggs are too strong, but you can't expect crepes to heal more than 150 hunger and 60 health. I also agree that Warly is the hardest character to play, and the best use is to switch to Warly, bundle wrap the food you'll want later, then switch to someone with actual benefit, and without the annoying downside.

[_zwb]

Wolfgang has been the brain-dead easy mode character since DS was a browser game, I don't think they're gonna change this any sooner

[Mike23Ua]

39 minutes ago, Silversliver said:

Warly is a support character. Wolfgang alone might be better at chopping and fighting than warly, though wolfgang with honey crystals makes even misery toadstool shrooms a joke, for everything else there's maxwell.

For combat, Alone wolfgang will win, but if you have even 2 people, one warly will add more damage than one wolfgang, even more so if you already have wolfgang.

I do agree that tall scotch eggs are too strong, but you can't expect crepes to heal more than 150 hunger and 60 health. I also agree that Warly is the hardest character to play, and the best use is to switch to Warly, bundle wrap the food you'll want later, then switch to someone with actual benefit, and without the annoying downside.

Just a reminder, they claimed Wormwood & Wortox was just Support characters too- Now WW has a pretty crazy skill tree & Wortox can soul hop to any location in the game world with enough souls in his inventory.

My point is Warly sucks, there I said it.. I don’t regret saying it either, currently he’s my least favorite character in the entire game… I would rather play WES than Warly so that should speak volumes in of itself..

As far as what I would (personally) like to see in a Warly Skill Tree it would go something like this-

The WintersFeast Masonry Oven, The Buffet Tables ALL OF THIS Screams Warly… I want more complex, deeper cooking mechanics like we got with Farming, (So I guess Warly Skill Tree + Cooking Rework)

Anyway.. WF is spot on what Warly should be, you cook up buffet dishes, you set them at a table, everyone can feast from the same meal and reap the benefits, no more selfish 1 person dishes.. (a few could still exist, but I’d move the crazier OP buffs to needing to actually build and set up buffet tables)

As far as Skill Tree Perks go I’d have it set up something like this:

Chefs Knife- Warly can now craft a large Butchers Knife that can be used as both a Melee Weapon, and a Cooking Tool.

investing a second skill point into this tree grants you 

Proportion Sizes: Similar to Wilson (of all peoples…) ability to transmute 1 meat into 2 morsels, if this skill tree is spec’d Warly can now use his Chefs Knife to “Dice Up” Meat, Carrots, other veggies etc.. so TL:DR 1 large meat = 4 morsels, 1 Carrot = 4 carrot slices.

Investing a Third point into this same tree upgrades the Chefs Knife to a Butchers Knife (deals significantly more damage as a melee weapon, and foods can be diced up to 6 portion sizes)

The Second Skill Tree Perk I’d give him is “Not so picky eater” this basically removes his downside of wanting special food dishes, same as how you can remove woodies downside of starving when exiting wereforms.. 

Warly realizes he’s not in the safety of civilization anymore and is in fact in a harsh wilderness tasked with doing whatever it takes to survive.. so if he has to eat the same dish every day, or eat something particularly distasteful, He man’s up and puts a clothes pin over his nose to swallow his pride (& whatever he needs to eat to survive)

The next one’s a bit of a morbid perk but completely fitting of Warly, Similar to how When a Webber dies near a Wortox he drops two souls instead of one, Warly yields back more yummy bone shards from fallen survivors.

Finally: Warly can upgrade his special pouches & food preserving backpacks to preserve food freshness for longer periods of time (such as layering a Meaty stew with preserving powders to make its freshness spoil slower)

These are the changes I would personally make to make him more fun to play as, I just picture pulling dishes out the masonry oven, carrying them to my friends (who now have sitting animations by the way…) at a large table and letting them FEAST!

[Silversliver]

You claim that wormwood got cool buffs, I refute that entirely. there are about 2 skills that are worth any insight points in his entire skill tree, but I do agree that there needs to be more love for playing as Warly, just like Winona. I don't like the idea that the best use of a character is switching to them, building their unique items, then switching away.

Seriously though, what does wormwood have that's so much cooler than 75% damage boost to everyone you're playing with?

[Just Ragnar]

19 hours ago, Silversliver said:

You claim that wormwood got cool buffs, I refute that entirely. there are about 2 skills that are worth any insight points in his entire skill tree, but I do agree that there needs to be more love for playing as Warly, just like Winona. I don't like the idea that the best use of a character is switching to them, building their unique items, then switching away.

Seriously though, what does wormwood have that's so much cooler than 75% damage boost to everyone you're playing with?

The boost is a ton of work to maintain and have reliably. Also its 70%.

20 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Just a reminder, they claimed Wormwood & Wortox was just Support characters too- Now WW has a pretty crazy skill tree & Wortox can soul hop to any location in the game world with enough souls in his inventory.

My point is Warly sucks, there I said it.. I don’t regret saying it either, currently he’s my least favorite character in the entire game… I would rather play WES than Warly so that should speak volumes in of itself..

As far as what I would (personally) like to see in a Warly Skill Tree it would go something like this-

The WintersFeast Masonry Oven, The Buffet Tables ALL OF THIS Screams Warly… I want more complex, deeper cooking mechanics like we got with Farming, (So I guess Warly Skill Tree + Cooking Rework)

Anyway.. WF is spot on what Warly should be, you cook up buffet dishes, you set them at a table, everyone can feast from the same meal and reap the benefits, no more selfish 1 person dishes.. (a few could still exist, but I’d move the crazier OP buffs to needing to actually build and set up buffet tables)

As far as Skill Tree Perks go I’d have it set up something like this:

Chefs Knife- Warly can now craft a large Butchers Knife that can be used as both a Melee Weapon, and a Cooking Tool.

investing a second skill point into this tree grants you 

Proportion Sizes: Similar to Wilson (of all peoples…) ability to transmute 1 meat into 2 morsels, if this skill tree is spec’d Warly can now use his Chefs Knife to “Dice Up” Meat, Carrots, other veggies etc.. so TL:DR 1 large meat = 4 morsels, 1 Carrot = 4 carrot slices.

Investing a Third point into this same tree upgrades the Chefs Knife to a Butchers Knife (deals significantly more damage as a melee weapon, and foods can be diced up to 6 portion sizes)

The Second Skill Tree Perk I’d give him is “Not so picky eater” this basically removes his downside of wanting special food dishes, same as how you can remove woodies downside of starving when exiting wereforms.. 

Warly realizes he’s not in the safety of civilization anymore and is in fact in a harsh wilderness tasked with doing whatever it takes to survive.. so if he has to eat the same dish every day, or eat something particularly distasteful, He man’s up and puts a clothes pin over his nose to swallow his pride (& whatever he needs to eat to survive)

The next one’s a bit of a morbid perk but completely fitting of Warly, Similar to how When a Webber dies near a Wortox he drops two souls instead of one, Warly yields back more yummy bone shards from fallen survivors.

Finally: Warly can upgrade his special pouches & food preserving backpacks to preserve food freshness for longer periods of time (such as layering a Meaty stew with preserving powders to make its freshness spoil slower)

These are the changes I would personally make to make him more fun to play as, I just picture pulling dishes out the masonry oven, carrying them to my friends (who now have sitting animations by the way…) at a large table and letting them FEAST!

Make the "not so picky eater" one turn him into his shipwrecked variant, you can eat non-pot foods for lower stats but in return all crock pot foods give higher stats.
Also, i want one that makes him always get the 2.5x multiplier from chaud froid, and ONLY WARLY gets it this way. Everyone else needs wet enemies.

[Mike23Ua]

58 minutes ago, ShyRasan123 said:

The boost is a ton of work to maintain and have reliably. Also its 70%.

Make the "not so picky eater" one turn him into his shipwrecked variant, you can eat non-pot foods for lower stats but in return all crock pot foods give higher stats.
Also, i want one that makes him always get the 2.5x multiplier from chaud froid, and ONLY WARLY gets it this way. Everyone else needs wet enemies.

The point of the Skill Trees, at least when it comes to Wolfgang, Wormwood, & Woodie.. has been to remove, or significantly lessen their downsides.

Wolfgang being ineffective against planar enemies was changed when he got skills for it. Wolfgang having his movement speed completely removed and Klei devs specifically stating it wasn’t coming back in ANY Capacity.. was changed when they gave him the “Leg Day” skill, Wolfgang needing to play a Mini Game on a Gym was completely removed when he got a skill so the gym does the mini game itself.

Wormwoods inability to heal is more of an afterthought now with Passive Healing, giving what is effectively the DST equivalent of Exlax to mobs to force them to poop themselves now gives him more poop then he would ever know what to do with to smear all over himself to even further ignore his no healing downside, he was also given fun combat abilities & his bramble husks & traps got significant buffs.

Woodie- Woodies Skill Tree makes his Wereforms more useful & completely removes his downsides of entering a Starvation Status upon exiting a Wereform, there’s even a perk if you kill CC or AFW so you won’t transform at all on full moon nights or can do fisticuffs with all the games bosses as Moose without having Charlie’s shadow creatures come to interfere in the fight.

Then there’s Wilson- Who got shafted in getting an ACTUAL Rework, and got Shafted in getting a fun interesting Skill Tree…

But Wilson Aside, if Wolfgang, Wormwood, & Woodie are any indication- Expect Warlys downsides to either get completely removed, or get significantly lessened.

[Silversliver]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wormwoods inability to heal is more of an afterthought now with Passive Healing, giving what is effectively the DST equivalent of Exlax to mobs to force them to poop themselves now gives him more poop then he would ever know what to do with to smear all over himself to even further ignore his no healing downside, he was also given fun combat abilities & his bramble husks & traps got significant buffs.

Wormwood's passive healing is negligible at best.

Have you tried wormwood's exlax? I'd rather just feed a werepig lightbulbs, besides which, rubbing poop heals 2 each. a full 15 poop (the amount you get for the ipecaca) heals 30, over a grueling minute.

Wormwood did get some fun new combat abilities, bramble traps resetting by just being bloomy is great. it's a QoL perk though. Bramble Husk is slightly better if you get the perk, but it's best use is still to get hit while wearing it. The moonshroom releasing a napsack cloud at your feet is great, but I wouldn't call it a commonly used feature.

Don't get me wrong, Warly definitely needs an excuse to stay as him rather than bundle wrap and change, but I don't agree that wormwood got "a pretty crazy skill tree", at most he got a few interesting niche gimmicks.

[Just Ragnar]

14 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

The point of the Skill Trees, at least when it comes to Wolfgang, Wormwood, & Woodie.. has been to remove, or significantly lessen their downsides.

Wolfgang being ineffective against planar enemies was changed when he got skills for it. Wolfgang having his movement speed completely removed and Klei devs specifically stating it wasn’t coming back in ANY Capacity.. was changed when they gave him the “Leg Day” skill, Wolfgang needing to play a Mini Game on a Gym was completely removed when he got a skill so the gym does the mini game itself.

Wormwoods inability to heal is more of an afterthought now with Passive Healing, giving what is effectively the DST equivalent of Exlax to mobs to force them to poop themselves now gives him more poop then he would ever know what to do with to smear all over himself to even further ignore his no healing downside, he was also given fun combat abilities & his bramble husks & traps got significant buffs.

Woodie- Woodies Skill Tree makes his Wereforms more useful & completely removes his downsides of entering a Starvation Status upon exiting a Wereform, there’s even a perk if you kill CC or AFW so you won’t transform at all on full moon nights or can do fisticuffs with all the games bosses as Moose without having Charlie’s shadow creatures come to interfere in the fight.

Then there’s Wilson- Who got shafted in getting an ACTUAL Rework, and got Shafted in getting a fun interesting Skill Tree…

But Wilson Aside, if Wolfgang, Wormwood, & Woodie are any indication- Expect Warlys downsides to either get completely removed, or get significantly lessened.

Im not so sure i like this approach. I think that downsides are really important to the game and is what changes up how you play. But no, guess i'll just rush lunar again and live off stone fruit forever, realize all the nuance i liked about feeding Warly is gone, and then realize there are no more characters with downsides, then quit.

Then proceed to return 2 hours later because Don't Starve Together is one of the best games i've ever played.

[Mike23Ua]

1 hour ago, ShyRasan123 said:

Im not so sure i like this approach. I think that downsides are really important to the game and is what changes up how you play. But no, guess i'll just rush lunar again and live off stone fruit forever, realize all the nuance i liked about feeding Warly is gone, and then realize there are no more characters with downsides, then quit.

Then proceed to return 2 hours later because Don't Starve Together is one of the best games i've ever played.

I honestly think that Klei’s plans may be to remove or significantly lessen downsides, and make up for it by changing, upgrading and adding more to the rest of the game. Areas for example that are currently lacking.

Dragonfly is a good example, some people claim her fight is “fun” but most the people who claim that also build walls to avoid her larvae & panflute to disable her enraged Mode.

Theres nothing wrong with doing that.. I don’t guess, BUT newer boss fights and the reworked Ancient guardian have how do I say this… made the fights more complex, with more unique features.. and overly made them more fun.

however, just as quickly as Klei removed downsides.. they can add them back in but maybe this time under a harder difficulty mode for those who want it, and the characters can just be easier to play and enjoy for those who don’t.