Suggestions for modifying Wormwood's skill tree

[Ardyn]

Wormwood is not just a farmer, it can also be a warrior or an adventurer - and I didn't see this in Wormwood's skill tree.

Wormwood's Bramble Husk is its key to fighting against swarms of enemies, and Wormwood's Bramble Trap can also play a role in unexpected situations - such as killing Mossling without summoning moose/goose. When facing high damage enemies, bramble husk can combine with Thulcite Crown to gain higher defense. However, when enemies with planar appear, bramble husks are difficult to use. Enemy with planar attacks can penetrate the defense of a bramble husk. If you are only equipped with head armor with planar defense, the additional planar damage can be very painful for Wormwood, as it is difficult for Wormwood to recover health compared to regular characters in fierce battles. However, due to the rare occurrence of enemy with planes in groups, the damage caused by bramble husks and bramble traps is also difficult to achieve. Wormwood needs to have methods similar to Bramble Husk and Bramble Trap when facing Enemy with Planar. I hope to create new equipment similar to Bramble Husk and Bramble Trap by defeating Cell, and preferably obtain the materials to make such new equipment (such as Brightshade Husk) after defeating Cell Champion/Council fuelweaver.

Then there is another aspect of Wormwood's ability, which is to create living logs. This is a very important ability for Wormwood, as living logs allow any Wormwood who solves health related problems to easily create a large number of bramble husks, nightmare swords, bat bats, report staff, or other combat and magical items, or hand over living logs to other characters to help them achieve certain goals. But I didn't see this in the farmhand branch which is in new skill tree, similar functions only include manufacturing berry bush, banana bush, and even manufacturing monkey tail! What is the use of this for adventurous wormwood? Wormwood only needs to eat Monster Meat to fill its stomach, while tents can help Wormwood solve all non combat health and sanity issues (and can also solve combat issues, such as building a tent in runns where monkeys easily killed by Thorn Armor can give Wormwood many roasted bananas). Some people say that monkey tail can help Wormwood obtain a large amount of reeds to make Honey Poultice, but in reality it is not as practical as imagined. For Wormwood that leans towards combat, collecting these raw materials is too cumbersome and too slow. For Wormwood that leans towards agriculture, collecting bananas from the raw materials through runns is too difficult, and collecting them from monkey island is meaningless - there can be monkey tail available. The biggest significance of this function is to create enough reeds for wickerbottom, which is almost meaningless for Wormwood itself, and the other three skills in this skill branch are completely useless. Wormwood's output in farmland can be more useful and interesting than planting berries. And berry bushes and juicy berry bushes themselves can be refreshed when the world regenerates, which efficiency may even be faster than Wormwood producing them at a high cost. As for the last manufacturing lureplant on the branch, it may seem interesting (although it may not be useful), but this sikill branch fundamentally needs to be refactored. If Wormwood could directly use its health to create twigs, berries, reed, and leaf meats, I think it would be very interesting as it retains the same form as before when creating a living log, and adventurous Wormwood can obtain these materials during their adventure journey, Wormwood, who loves agriculture, can also obtain these materials by farming to fill their stomachs and then sleeping in tents to restore their health - this gives me the feeling that Wormwood is cultivating itself and harvesting the materials it produces, like treating itself as a plant!

On the other hand, I hope that the advantage of Wormwood in manufacturing living logs can also be preserved after defeating the cellular chamber/ambient fuelweaver, as living logs become increasingly useless after defeating the cellular chamber/ambient fuelweaver. I hope Wormwood can manufacture some new material, such as Brightshade Husk, after all, Brightshade Husk requires pure Brilliance to manufacture equipment, This ability will only be truly useful after defeating CC.

The following are some subjective ideas about the wormwood skill tree that may not apply to most people:

According to DST lore, we know that wormwood is a creature from the moon, so it can only choose Lunar on this skilltree. But in my actual play, I found that Wormwood received greater help in shadow. Wormwood is very suitable for adventuring in runns, and it can also obtain important equipment from runns. And Wormwood is also more suitable for dealing with using an ambient fuelweaver rather than a cellular champion (I can rely on bramble husks to defeat ambient fuelweavers in a 0 sanity situation, which is actually very easy). However, currently Wormwood can only gain gains from the Brightshade series of equipment, which requires Wormwood to complete the Celestial Champion challenge it is not good at. I hope Wormwood can choose to be a 'traitor to the moon' or 'help the moon explore the shadows', so that they can gain more benefits from defeating the world of the ambient fuelweaver. Although DST lore is not something that can be changed at will, the gameplay of DST should be free enough - more choices can give players more experience, I guess.

[Creatorofswamps]

28 minutes ago, Ardyn said:

The biggest significance of this function is to create enough reeds for wickerbottom, which is almost meaningless for Wormwood itself, and the other three skills in this skill branch are completely useless. Wormwood's output in farmland can be more useful and interesting than planting berries. And berry bushes and juicy berry bushes themselves can be refreshed when the world regenerates, which efficiency may even be faster than Wormwood producing them at a high cost. As for the last manufacturing lureplant on the branch, it may seem interesting (although it may not be useful), but this sikill branch fundamentally needs to be refactored. If Wormwood could directly use its health to create twigs, berries, reed, and leaf meats, I think it would be very interesting as it retains the same form as before when creating a living log, and adventurous Wormwood can obtain these materials during their adventure journey, Wormwood, who loves agriculture, can also obtain these materials by farming to fill their stomachs and then sleeping in tents to restore their health - this gives me the feeling that Wormwood is cultivating itself and harvesting the materials it produces, like treating itself as a plant!

Many people suggest replacing monkey tails with tufts of grass. I also suggested 2 ideas, 1 rather just funny, 2 I think it would be interesting.a quote on the replacement of crafting monkey tails is given below:

Replacing crafting On with Tumbleweed will be very strange and stupid, but it will be extremely fun(This kind of breaks the balance, so I guess it's expensive?). there is also an idea to replace the monkey tails with a new exclusive item: a swamp Burr (this is an analogue of a cone, but for a tree with thorns) yes, this is not the most necessary tree in survival, but you can grow it to decorate your bases and terrain! (this idea came to my mind just now, and I think it's brilliant and simple)

I think it would be cool after so many years to get the seeds of thorny trees. If I'm not mistaken, many people have asked for it

And Tumbleweed crafting is really funny (imagine that wormwood is crafting it and it immediately runs away from it) + bonus from random loot. But honestly I'm not sure how does this upset the balance? What do you think?

[Ohan]

17 minutes ago, Creatorofswamps said:

 

Did you even read the post? The last thing wormwood's skill tree needs is more useless things. 

You have been spamming threads with the same thing over and over and now you bring it here on this very good and important post with amazing information pointing out the flaws in his skill tree.

Do you not understand how spiky trees would be useless to wormwood? or even grass tufts?

It is becoming very clear that you are not interested in making Wormwood's tree better for wormwood players. 

Wormwood's skill tree is not the place for you or others to force your base building things into. Ask klei to add those things to the base game. 

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@Ardyn you made some really great points in this post! Klei needs to take this type of Wormwood playstyle into account because currently his skill tree really does not reflect this outside of Lunar guardian/moonshroom cloud. 

Spoiler

Maybe if u want u could adjust the layout of the text to make it easier to read because the information is important! bold text or colors would help! 

[Antynomity]

4 minutes ago, Ohan said:

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  Reveal hidden contents

Maybe if u want u could adjust the layout of the text to make it easier to read because the information is important! bold text or colors would help! 

seriously though what's the obsession in cramping all plant life that megabasers use into wormwood, that just makes his skill tree even more pointless filler that will never get used outside of swapping to him and making those said things and swapping back to wanda/wx/whoever 

[Ohan]

9 minutes ago, Antynomity said:

seriously though what's the obsession in cramping all plant life that megabasers use into wormwood,

They dont play wormwood so they dont care if he gets a useless skill tree. Its that simple. 

i partially blame klei because crafting plants shouldve been an ancient archives technology along with the turf maker since the ancients were master agriculturalists. 

Wormwood crafting plantables screams steam workshop mod to me. There are many workshop mods that do this. 

[Antynomity]

26 minutes ago, Ohan said:

They dont play wormwood so they dont care if he gets a useless skill tree. Its that simple. 

i partially blame klei because crafting plants shouldve been an ancient archives technology along with the turf maker since the ancients were master agriculturalists. 

Wormwood crafting plantables screams steam workshop mod to me. There are many workshop mods that do this. 

Klei clearly never played minecraft, add bonemeal to the game so we can get grass that way.

[Blinker]

I'm overall extremely happy with Wormwood's skill tree and what it adds to his kit, but I do agree that he should get some special additions to his existing crafts. I'm hoping that towards the end of the From Beyond Arc most characters will receive some special lunar/shadow versions of their unique crafts that they can make at the respective stations to help give them some unique endgame abilities, and Wormwood in particular should definitely be able to craft an upgraded Brightshade version of his Bramble Husk that has planar defense. Bramble Husks are such a unique and fun armor to use, it would be a shame to have them be power crept into irrelevance once you reach a certain point in your world.

It is weird that Wormwood, despite being a Lunar Aligned character, is currently encouraged to use shadow equipment more, mainly due to dark swords, since he has easy access to living logs, can induce insanity very easily to farm nightmare fuel, can carry the crafting ingredients with him to make as many as he needs to on the fly, and can offset the sanity drain of the sword with his large sanity pool and seed planting. Though I do think this is less of a Wormwood specific issue and more that Glass Cutters (The Lunar alternative to dark swords) are much harder to craft and you can't make them on demand like you can with dark swords. I feel adding some sort of prototypable lunar weapon that uses living logs would help in this regard (And add some more value to his Living Log ability). Honestly I would like to see them buff and expand on the Lunar Island crafts in general.

While it does make sense for Wormwood to only be able to choose Lunar alignments (And I imagine Maxwell will be similar with Shadows, come his skill tree), I can understand why some players might find it a bit unsatisfying to not be able to make a choice. That said, it doesn't really fit with Wormwood, being a plant, to align himself with Shadows and Darkness and Death, and I don't really have any idea what his Shadow perks would be. Maybe something to do with rot and decay (Sorta like his Triumphant skin's quote "All...Will...Rot"), or I guess he could get some special rose related abilities (Since those are kind of Charlie's motif, and she might like having a subject who likes them as much as she does). But I can't really think of anything super unique, and that wouldn't lead to the current Woodie situation, where you're always going to pick one side over the other since the ability that it offers is so good. Wormwoods lunar perks are both unique and help fix some issues with his kit. With the summons, his Carrat and Saladmander skills reward him for farming and fix one of the most glaring issues with his gameplay (That being that he is THE farming character, but his downside means that he hardly benefits from farming), and his Brightshade buffs give him some plantbending abilities to help make his combat feel more unique and like he actually is a plant who comes from the moon.

I also know a lot of people also want Brightshade's to be passive to Wormwood, but I don't know how I feel about that idea at the moment. I know Klei have stated that Lunar Rifts will be getting new enemies in the future and that Brightshade's are the weakest enemy that can spawn from them, so maybe once that happens they might implement some sort of passiveness or reduced aggro range skill. Personally, if it was my choice, the way I would do it is give Wormwood the ability to craft a special Compost Wrap at the Brightsmithy, using Brightshade Husks, Guano and Compost. This compost wrap gives Wormwood a ton of health when used, significantly fast blooming, and turns his Sanity into Enlightenment for half an in-game day, and while his enlightenment is above 80%, Brightshades are passive to him. Wormwood can also fertilize a farming plot with the Brightshade Wrap, and doing so summon's a Brightshade in the plot.

[Creatorofswamps]

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

It is becoming very clear that you are not interested in making Wormwood's tree better for wormwood players

 Wormwood is in the top 3 of my favorite characters, so I'm interested that he has everything in order in his. In my opinion, monkey tails harm balance and logic. That is why I am against their crafting from the very beginning. There are other things I would like to see in his tree. A moon mushroom plantation looks like a good idea . A branch with evil bees is apsolute bаd.you can safely replace it with the fact that bees pollinated with its flowers produce more honey in the apiary during flowering, "taming" fruit flies is a good idea, but with them you can come up with a new interaction (and the ability to catch them in a net) . In the branch with flowering, you can add the possibility of shaving, so that for a couple of health spent, you will get 6-12 petals and stop flowering.The possibility of smearing horror fuels to get evil petals.Mobs are buggy, but klei will fix it. Carrot rats can be changed to the fact that from time to time they can dig seeds out of the ground and not just pick them up. In the branch with crafting plants in "monkey tails", replace the crafting of bananas with palm scales,, I think you need to combine all the berry bushes into one and add algae to the freed tab or what I suggested. this is a branch of cultivation, do you expect to see something other than crafting plants in it? The combat moon perk is on top. of the little things, you can add that butterflies fly when he blooms (now only bees) wormwood helps to grow very tall trees better, herbal ointment can restore him more health. he may be the only one who can shave the grass off the grass allegators. the idea of tumbleweeds and trees with thorns is suggested for more interest and fun (it is not necessary that everything be only very mega good). you know, now you can feel like the main Wilsons who wanted the skill tree to be unique and full-fledged, and they were told: yes, what are you talking about?, everything is so good... * a sad sigh*

I don't go straight about everything I think only because there is a language barer, so I try to write about things that I think are really important. I'm sorry if there are any mistakes here

[Copyafriend]

5 hours ago, Ardyn said:

Some people say that monkey tail can help Wormwood obtain a large amount of reeds to make Honey Poultice, but in reality it is not as practical as imagined. For Wormwood that leans towards combat, collecting these raw materials is too cumbersome and too slow. For Wormwood that leans towards agriculture, collecting bananas from the raw materials through runns is too difficult, and collecting them from monkey island is meaningless - there can be monkey tail available

I disagree with this portion, i think it creates a false dichotomy where you’re either a wormwood who runs around, OR you’re a wormwood who farms, i am both, and the reeds sound VERY useful, ESPECIALLY post monkey island, as i’ll have effectively infinite banana to increase my reed production with. Also the main use of the reeds is not JUST the honey poultice, its for the night armor as well. 
 

but simultaneously i think that

5 hours ago, Ardyn said:

Wormwood could directly use its health to create twigs, berries, reed, and leaf meats, I think it would be very interesting as it retains the same form as before when creating a living log, and adventurous Wormwood can obtain these materials during their adventure journey

This is SUPER interesting aswell, and would be nice as a kind of “bonus perk” like you get the ability to craft twigs from 2 health, or the producer for more. 
 

But if we are gaining the ability to produce pure resources, we need a much faster crafting animation, maybe just the regular animation for crafting rather than the whole “cuts my arm off” thing.