I made an all-character tutorial compendium for DST

[GuardDuty]

32 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

If someone taming beefalo, taming them ruin rush will be much less nuisance than taming them in base and eat all grass and twigs.

32 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

If people on surface die to darkness on day 10, that on them, that not because there are people are going to ruin.

Ruin rush OR beefalo taming not ruin rush and beefalo taming. This isn't a case of experienced players with thousands of hours using light bulbs to feed beef and ruin rushing at the same time. I had played in public servers with new players just trying the game and who still follow the old guide of beefalo taming: they use grass and twig to feed beefalo, feed the beefalo an entire buffet per day, leeching off the base while everyone else struggles to find grass or twig. So newcomers died of darkness on day 10 BECAUSE these beef tamers gather all resources to feed their beefalo.

32 minutes ago, Tranoze said:

 dont see anyone ruin rush and hammer 20 pigs houses just for armor.

Then consider yourself a lucky one, because more than once I found 40 pig skins from a dead body near the ruin entrance (and panflute for some reason). Normally, it would be 16-20 pig skins with them aka the whole pig village hammered. 

[Tranoze]

1 hour ago, Dreadle said:

Normally, it would be 16-20 pig skins

Just one touch stone would yield 8 pigskins, so 2 touch stone is enough for those. Early game, people hammer touch stone is expectable, as pig heads give no resources over time, and it first come first serve for those type of resources.

Atleast they die in ruin so the next person come in will have those resources. Better than those log out with them.

[Ryusuta]

Before this gets too far afield, I feel I should probably clarify that the joke of the video wasn't that beefalo taming and/or ruins rushing are a bad thing. It was just to poke some lighthearted fun at the fact that there is a disproportionate amount of content that seems to focus only on these two specific things; often apropos of nothing and at the expense of covering more relevant topics to what their guides were ostensibly supposed to be about. Basically, treating these two things less as decently useful potential options worth considering and more like the answer to absolutely everything.

Don't Starve Together is a wide-open game with a myriad of goals, a ton of avenues to success, and a wide variety of characters and play styles. Teaching new players to focus on only one or two goals and ignoring everything else is just a massive disservice to it. I feel it also gives the wrong impression to those same people who are relatively new and would benefit from a more all-purpose guide the most; who might have stumbled upon the guides while trying to learn about the game.

Like... making a guide explicitly about taming beefalo or rushing ruins? Cool. No problems at all. That's the point of the guide. Guides that convince less experienced players that these two things are the fundamentals of the game they should exclusively be focusing on? Not so good (in my opinion).

I do hope that I was able to bring across that I wasn't trying to teach players not to ever do these things; just to not have an overblown idea of them in the context of the game as a whole.

[Waynel]

10 hours ago, Dreadle said:

So newcomers died of darkness on day 10 BECAUSE these beef tamers gather all resources to feed their beefalo.

That's a wild statement. That has more to do with the fact that 5 or more people joined the server before said newb, and harvested all the grass and twigs in the vicinity of the spawn area and yes it’s newbie’s fault to not have explored enough during daytime or simply not have disconnected and reconnected to get the light bubble. Besides, you rarely get to have a player taming a beef in a regular Klei survival server game.

 

10 hours ago, Dreadle said:

Then consider yourself a lucky one, because more than once I found 40 pig skins from a dead body near the ruin entrance (and panflute for some reason). Normally, it would be 16-20 pig skins with them aka the whole pig village hammered. 

That must've been an extreme outlier, people usually never hammer such a big amount of houses for the sake of a ruins rush. They don't use the 40 blue caps 20 helmets Edgy Rick strategy anymore lol.

As for the flute... maybe it was done for a good cause ? I don’t condone the idea at all but, in pub you do get griefers you know; so there are people who prefer to secure the panflute and bring it back later after the ruins rush is done (although I find it stupid, I would never go out of my way to just prevent the flute from being griefed: if it has to happen then let it happen).

And let’s face it: most people in pubs are noobs so they don’t care about the pan flute or stuff like that; as for “pros” they will either do the ruins rush together or if one of them joins late to the party, the latecomer will do sth else like rush bq if it’s wendy or lunar if it’s woodie.

[Evelo]

I know this video is a joke but it emphasizes exactly why I hate using beefalo.

[GuardDuty]

11 hours ago, Waynel said:

That must've been an extreme outlier, people usually never hammer such a big amount of houses for the sake of a ruins rush. They don't use the 40 blue caps 20 helmets Edgy Rick strategy anymore lol.

That's a wild statement. That has more to do with the fact that 5 or more people joined the server before said newb, and harvested all the grass and twigs in the vicinity of the spawn area and yes it’s newbie’s fault to not have explored enough during daytime or simply not have disconnected and reconnected to get the light bubble. Besides, you rarely get to have a player taming a beef in a regular Klei survival server game.

Ok, this is a "he said she said situation", or maybe the region in which I was playing has more inconsiderate people/griefers. But new players who only watch youtube boss rush/ruin rush videos, decide it is good enough, and then process doing it in public servers are vexing because they are unlikely to participate in common courtesies in the first place.

11 hours ago, Waynel said:

As for the flute... maybe it was done for a good cause ? I don’t condone the idea at all but, in pub you do get griefers you know; so there are people who prefer to secure the panflute and bring it back later after the ruins rush is done (although I find it stupid, I would never go out of my way to just prevent the flute from being griefed: if it has to happen then let it happen).

And let’s face it: most people in pubs are noobs so they don’t care about the pan flute or stuff like that; as for “pros” they will either do the ruins rush together or if one of them joins late to the party, the latecomer will do sth else like rush bq if it’s wendy or lunar if it’s woodie.

The flute could easily replace with other flutes/sleepytime stories. Most survial servers will be regenerate. Nonetheless, my argument stands: you can't play the "this is how I like to play" card when your play style affects others.

[Waynel]

On 4/5/2023 at 4:25 AM, Dreadle said:

they are unlikely to participate in common courtesies in the first place.

What in the world do you mean by “common courtesies”; mining boulders and giving 10 flint to a new player because “flint good” ?

If I’m not mistaken, someone wrote that Klei recommends to learn the game solo if you’re a new player.  It’s a common sense advice because in a survival pub setting newbs will either die to player altered environment (e.g. dying to twins of terror, to lack of grass/twigs at spawn (regardless whether due to beefalo taming or players just wanting to have a stack of grass from the get-go), etc.) or be carried the whole game, with the same outcome in either case: having learnt nothing about dst and being demotivated to continue playing it.

And again, if you die to darkness on day 1, you should blame this death on your lack of knowledge, not on active players.

 

Besides, don’t confuse the wrongful behavior of hoarding  40 pig skin (whether you remain on the surface or not for that matter) with your standard ruins rusher who goes down to the caves with a mere 8-12 pig skin count. Or else you might as well auto vote kick willow players because “sometimes willow players light bases on fire”.

 

On 4/5/2023 at 4:25 AM, Dreadle said:

But new players who only watch youtube boss rush/ruin rush videos, decide it is good enough

There’s no youtube guide that recommends going down to the ruins with more than around 12 pig skin (I was wrong about Edgy Rick, when it comes to the pig skin part).

[GuardDuty]

1 hour ago, Waynel said:

What in the world do you mean by “common courtesies”; mining boulders and giving 10 flint to a new player because “flint good” ?

Don't hammer pig villages or ask for a rollback/tell people where you died to get back the loot before logging out are all common etiquette. Again, this is my own experience so take this with a pinch of salt: taming beefalo is rare in klei server and yet, two times I witnessed players do it they were both staying at base semi-afking, gathering all the grass and twigs for their beefalo while playing Wes and Wendy respectively (they ignored all the advice from feed their beefalo with butterfly, lightbulb or steamtwigs). Taking all players' game enjoyment into account, it is fair to criticize the new players who hoard resources for their own speed-run needs, as this can make it difficult for others who are just starting and struggling to survive.

1 hour ago, Waynel said:

There’s no youtube guide that recommends going down to the ruins with more than around 12 pig skin (I was wrong about Edgy Rick, when it comes to the pig skin part).

Most youtube videos I saw are vague about what exact number of preparation and even less taking public server experience into account. What is a player with 4 hours under their belt interpreting that information? Who knows? I have seen panflute with those players and I am dumbfounded as well. Nothing against ruin rush/beefalo taming in public servers, these are great content of the game, but learning to walk before you run is actually being courteous to fellow players.

[Waynel]

5 hours ago, Dreadle said:

Don't hammer pig villages or ask for a rollback/tell people where you died to get back the loot before logging out are all common etiquette.

I agree about pig villages. Imo, as a general rule, only random pig houses should be hammered since said pigs are isolated in the forest and die to spiders anyway where as pk pigs can be farmed to some degree.

Asking for a rollback is a huge annoyance for everybody else: if you failed your solo ruins trip, swallow that pill and make sure you do better next time.

As far as telling others where you died, I believe it’s useless. If you went down with a reasonable/non-selfish amount of pig skin (around 10) it won’t create any hurdle for the survival/thriving of players on the surface. There’s around 70 pig skin in a surface world without an extra forest pig village or another birch forest and without counting the pig skin from pk village.

 

5 hours ago, Dreadle said:

Again, this is my own experience so take this with a pinch of salt: taming beefalo is rare in klei server and yet, two times I witnessed players do it they were both staying at base semi-afking, gathering all the grass and twigs for their beefalo while playing Wes and Wendy respectively (they ignored all the advice from feed their beefalo with butterfly, lightbulb or steamtwigs). Taking all players' game enjoyment into account, it is fair to criticize the new players who hoard resources for their own speed-run needs, as this can make it difficult for others who are just starting and struggling to survive.

I still don’t get why you’re so focused on the “issue” of beefalo taming. The obvious misbehavior in the games you described was either skill issue or trolling which are not exclusive to ruins rushing or beefalo taming. And since it takes place in a multiplayer setting it indeed needs to be addressed. But it’s not just about losing gear in a failed ruins trip: it can also be witnessed when a player fails to play the flute thus allowing enraged df to kill a whole bunch of players, or when a newb uses living logs to fuel a firepit thinking it will increase its efficiency.

But to be specific about new players’ tendency to hoard, you should actually point out the elephant room here: if there’s one major flaw that characterizes newbs and ruins the experience of every late comer, it’s hoarding all the flint from the mosaic biome thereby slowing everyone else down and maybe even preventing other beginners from surviving.
Yep, that’s the major grievance you should have against new players since it’s a recurring behavior. (unlike other peculiar newb tier moves that you will very rarely encounter such as harvesting all the surface world’s grass (tumbleweeds included ???) to feed a pet beefalo, or fueling a firepit with living logs).

 

5 hours ago, Dreadle said:

Nothing against ruin rush/beefalo taming in public servers, these are great content of the game, but learning to walk before you run is actually being courteous to fellow players.

I don’t want to impose my way of learning dst so idc about that, as long as they don’t bring everyone else down with their trolling/griefing/skill deficiency. And tbf, with a basic understanding of kiting mechanics and ruins’ nightmare cycle a new player has a fair chance of nailing a ruins rush.