make Maxwell great again

[SullyD]

I have seen many comments in other threads of the type:

"Oh no!!!! Maxwell's minions can't be better than Abigail !!!!!!!"

"This patch was good, now Maxwell is balanced and will have to engage in the fight"

"IMaGiNe a ChArAcTeR tHaT has a MiNiOn and doesn't HaVe to FiGhT, JuSt StAnD sTiLL".

Meanwhile Abigail:

 

 

Meanwhile Maxwell:

 

Ah yes, very balanced now:

• You'll have all the aggro on you;
• You will need to use only those equipments for the duelists to do damage;
• You will need to be close and fighting for the duelists to hit faster than a frog;
• You will have little HP and lose all your sanity from summoning;
• You will have to worry about nightmares or mobs/bosses chasing you;
• You will take free hits for this and lose armor durability;

Perfectly balanced.

No, that's not true, it's still too OP, trap mobs and bosses? nerf to the ground... kappa

[Dragonboooorn]

15 minutes ago, SullyD said:

No, that's not true, it's still too OP, trap mobs and bosses? nerf to the ground... kappa

You still need to do a perfect timing with cages. Bee quinn and her minions could easily stun lock you once they get out of cage, and most of the time you probably will be insane and will be dealing not only the bosses you fight, but shadows as well

[Arthas Durotan]

Now they want to nerf shadow pillars too! Not only they destroyed the effectiveness of fighters they want to take his only safety net away. Might as well declare Maxwell canonically dead. (That's a joke plz don't.)

 

Either fighters should get a taunt aura of some sort or better pillars to make sure there's a choice of avoiding that. Like leaving the area cursed for 1-2 seconds so passing enemies will get caught in it as well. (I am bad at this) giving Maxwell time to organize or kill the NC

Maxwell instantly taking all the aggro instead of the 5 other fighters is weird.

Hell make the escaped fighters use dash right after lol

 

Well, we could use shadow sneak at there but idk how effective they are. My pc can't really handle the game and GFN don't allow you to download beta

[Mysterious box]

19 hours ago, Gi-Go said:

Maxwell was a perfect summoner character and didn't need nerf of any kind. 

Have you guys ever played Wurt? Merm guards are stronger than duelists ever were. And before you say it - YES wurt needs to spend a lot of time and energy to get her army ready, while Maxwell was at his prime the second he joined. But THIS is exactly why Wurt is the least played character of all, and Maxwell was the best. 

I've conquered constant with merms before. It was fun while it lasted. But I'll never do it again. It's a waste of time and efford to replay Wurt. Maxwell's replayability however was infinite because any time you wanted to watch bosses die to your minions - pick Maxwell and go nutts. 

honestly from my experience shadow duelists are much stronger than merm guards both and damage and durability the only thing wurt can do is add numbers and not stand close but maxwell just seems plain superior to wurt in every way in his current state he simply does more for less and cheaper while always having what he needs on demand. I'd argue he's far too good for too little of a downside in his current state.

1 hour ago, SullyD said:

I have seen many comments in other threads of the type:

"Oh no!!!! Maxwell's minions can't be better than Abigail !!!!!!!"

"This patch was good, now Maxwell is balanced and will have to engage in the fight"

"IMaGiNe a ChArAcTeR tHaT has a MiNiOn and doesn't HaVe to FiGhT, JuSt StAnD sTiLL".

Meanwhile Abigail:

 

 

Meanwhile Maxwell:

 

Ah yes, very balanced now:

• You'll have all the aggro on you;
• You will need to use only those equipments for the duelists to do damage;
• You will need to be close and fighting for the duelists to hit faster than a frog;
• You will have little HP and lose all your sanity from summoning;
• You will have to worry about nightmares or mobs/bosses chasing you;
• You will take free hits for this and lose armor durability;

Perfectly balanced.

No, that's not true, it's still too OP, trap mobs and bosses? nerf to the ground... kappa

I don't see the problem with needing to think to kill hordes with them. Also you could just not specifically summon till your insane for trash mobs and if you properly just lure the black spiders weave around them your shadows make very quick work of them. That being said I agree with the idea the shadow prison shouldn't work on bosses it's still too cheesy.

Edit: Figured I'd clarify I don't dislike maxwell's current state the only thing I really think needs adjusted is his shadow prison and only for the boss interaction.

[SullyD]

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

honestly from my experience shadow duelists are much stronger than merm guards both and damage and durability

W h a t ...? 

[Mysterious box]

Just now, SullyD said:

W h a t ...? 

from what I've been testing with even numbers they seem stronger again tho with even numbers.

[SullyD]

16 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

you could just not specifically summon till your insane

So you are telling me not to use the character's full potential? That's like telling Wolfgang not to work out so he doesn't get hungry...

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, SullyD said:

So you are telling me not to use the character's full potential? That's like telling Wolfgang not to work out so he doesn't get hungry...

Depends on what you call full potential if your not able to assist with combat I'd argue your not using the full potential but that's just me. That being said if Bernie is around i'd say go all out.

[Wenhelxing]

 

Quote

What are you saying? Yeah, I guess playing with cheats would make the game easier, but I don’t really see why that should have anything to do with game balance?

This refresh is supposed to rework maxwell so that people can have a better time playing as him. I wouldn't call a summoning-type character "cheating." Wicker's tentacle books, Winona's catapults, Wurt's merm guards, Webber's spider army, and Abigail are all examples of "lay back and watch the chaos unfold." Maxwell is supposed to be a magic/summoning-focused character instead of a more hands-on experience like Wigfrid and Wolfgang. 

The man is sitting at a crippling 75 health, and you expect him to face a tank dragonfly? Klei already nailed the gathering part, so now it's just down to combat. The newest hotfix completely screws the summoning part so that the duelists drop aggro on mobs when they teleport. It takes roughly 3 seconds to summon fresh duelists to fight for you, meaning bosses and mobs can land free hits on you after they drop aggro on the existing duelists. Make the mobs prioritize the duelists. Instead of forcing you to engage in combat while wearing shadow gear, upgrade the codex using materials or small quests to increase your duelist damage on each upgrade. You can't spam duelists from the beginning because they all have low damage (20). As you upgrade the codex, the damage goes to something like 40 and 60 for each duelist. Also, I wouldn't say I like the sanity penalty when getting hit while wearing night armor since you already have to deal with the boss/mob you're fighting. All of you here know the pain of juggling terrorbeaks and hostile mobs simultaneously. 

Lastly, give maxwell some nice touches that fit the lore. Since wes can balloon dump like a madman, why not give maxwell some cool tricks to show off? Just my two cents. 

[Mysterious box]

2 minutes ago, Wenhelxing said:

 

This refresh is supposed to rework maxwell so that people can have a better time playing as him. I wouldn't call a summoning-type character "cheating." Wicker's tentacle books, Winona's catapults, Wurt's merm guards, Webber's spider army, and Abigail are all examples of "lay back and watch the chaos unfold." Maxwell is supposed to be a magic/summoning-focused character instead of a more hands-on experience like Wigfrid and Wolfgang. 

The man is sitting at a crippling 75 health, and you expect him to face a tank dragonfly? Klei already nailed the gathering part, so now it's just down to combat. The newest hotfix completely screws the summoning part so that the duelists drop aggro on mobs when they teleport. It takes roughly 3 seconds to summon fresh duelists to fight for you, meaning bosses and mobs can land free hits on you after they drop aggro on the existing duelists. Make the mobs prioritize the duelists. Instead of forcing you to engage in combat while wearing shadow gear, upgrade the codex using materials or small quests to increase your duelist damage on each upgrade. You can't spam duelists from the beginning because they all have low damage (20). As you upgrade the codex, the damage goes to something like 40 and 60 for each duelist. Also, I wouldn't say I like the sanity penalty when getting hit while wearing night armor since you already have to deal with the boss/mob you're fighting. All of you here know the pain of juggling terrorbeaks and hostile mobs simultaneously. 

Lastly, give maxwell some nice touches that fit the lore. Since wes can balloon dump like a madman, why not give maxwell some cool tricks to show off? Just my two cents. 

Night armor makes him tanky, he's got shadow sneak as a panic trap for hordes and shadow pillars as a I need a breather skill for bosses I feel like that more than handles the hands on combat aspect.

[Wenhelxing]

Quote

Night armor makes him tanky, he's got shadow sneak as a panic trap for hordes and shadow pillars as a I need a breather skill for bosses I feel like that more than handles the hands on combat aspect.

 

That brings us back to the problem of the sanity penalty and the issues that come with night armor. Tanking on the latest update is impossible because of the sanity penalty. You can get a couple of good hits in and then you'll need to deal with nightmare creatures. If you don't wear night armor, you're gonna lose out on damage (60->40 something). And then, you've gotta consider the cost of night armor. It costs 5 nightmare fuel and 3 papyrus to craft a single night armor. 3 papyrus=12 cut reeds. So you need to go to the swams as maxwell, face getting screwed by tentacles and merms and pick 12 reeds, kill 5 shadow creatures for their fuel and then make an armor that only last for 525 hp each, not to mention draining your sanity when you get hit. Oh, you see the problem now?

The shadow sneak has little practical use for it in boss combat with the only one being grumble bees while fighting beequeen, its just a spell to scare off groups of mobs like hounds and bees, maybe beefalo. It can also be used as a nightmare fuel farm if you have a rabbit pen. I never said its useless, its just not good in a boss fight. 

The shadow pillars are the best thing in this update, as it provides multiple cheese methods for different bosses. Its in a spot as I see fit. 

[Cloakingsumo198]

43 minutes ago, Wenhelxing said:

If you don't wear night armor, you're gonna lose out on damage (60->40 something). 

So does unequiping the gear that provides the buff remove it from the shadows or something?

What about equipping them after summoning the shadows does that apply the damage boost.

[Wenhelxing]

Quote

So does unequiping the gear that provides the buff remove it from the shadows or something?

What about equipping them after summoning the shadows does that apply the damage boost.

apparently yes. It will remove the buff if you take it off. 

[Antynomity]

20 hours ago, SullyD said:

snip for S-

well, wendy is easy to use and is one of the most mained characters in the game, obviously people would defend her like it was a treasure  seriously though im tired of the forums making updates mostly bad because of constant whining

Like, OP this! OP that! Like BRO NO ONE SHOULD CARE THIS MUCH, THIS IS A CO-OP GAME!

Just make stuff fun to use, or if you want balance then maybe make Wanda an actual glass cannon and not a 'glass cannon if you want her to be just to get a small buff to one of the more minor abilities and let everything else be usable no matter what'

But no, Maxwell OP, prison will get killed, GG EZ, wigfrid best designed character