Maxwell rework ideas

[King Maxwell]

I'm a maxwell main who loves maxwell but hates playing maxwell but I keep playing with him for my love of the character

My ideas for Maxwell's rework.

Main ideas:

• Turning shadows on and off saving in the umbra codex, mechanics similar to abgail's flower, when clicking on the codex the shadows are stored inside it and when clicking again they are spawned, maximum sanity penalty continues even with shadows saved.

 

• 50% + durability of shadow items. Bonus damage using shadow items according to maxwell's current health, 25%(75hp), 45%(55hp), 65%(35hp), 85%(15hp).

 

• 2 new exclusive maxwell items, true dark sword and true night armor.
  -True dark sword damage 68/73/78 (34 when out of fuel) 100 uses, nightmare fuel restores 25% durability. No sanity penalty.
  -True night armor absorbs 95% damage 525 durability without passive sanity drain, decreases Sanity by 10% of total damage taken, +4/6/8 inventory slots. True night armor doesn't break at 0% it just stops absorbing damage but continues to decrease Sanity by 10% of total damage taken. Nightmare fuel restores 20% durability.
•  

secondary ideas:

 

• Taking the tool cost out of the shadows, it would be a huge quality of life improvement to just use 2 Nightmare Fuel.

 

• New shadows, harvester leftover harvests grass, twigs, berries and etc, rowing shadow would row along with the maxwell and etc, basically shadows for all game functions, be creative.

 

• I don't really know how to improve duelist shadows without making maxwell a new wendy, maybe copy maxwell's armor for a little more survivability.

 

• Copying items using Nightmare Fuel, maxwell could copy any item in his inventory creating a copy with half the durability that the copied item had, the copies disappear if they leave maxwell's inventory.

 

• Maxwell could create a copy of any survivor including himself, this copy would work as a ds shadow and with a duration of 1 day, the shadow would follow its original.

My rework ideas is inspired by wigfrid's rework, adding to the maxwell without changing the current maxwell thus pleasing who likes and who doesn't like the rework. I would like your opinion on my rework idea, especially the main maxwell ones.

If anyone wants to create a mod with my ideas I would even appreciate it.

 

Sorry if there are too many mistakes, I don't speak English and I used the translator to write.

[CyberKn1ght]

I don't know if this is allowed on these forums as I'm new here, but I'll add the suggestions from my own Maxwell thread I made a couple days ago to provide more cool ideas to the discussion.

Here are some cool ideas:

- Maxwell definitely should receive picker clones that can pick grass and twigs. It is so frustrating to spend a whole day picking grass and twigs while there's a Maxwell who is supposed to be the god of resource collection not being able to help at all. I think it would be fine if the clones just dropped the item straight on the ground so you can later pick it up.

- Clones not being able to switch tools is fine if Klei considers that a limiting factor to his abilities, but clones should definitely be toggleable, or at least toggle them auto mining resources. It is so annoying to have everything on screen levelled even when you don't want it and makes marble and wood farms really inconvenient to make.

- I know that Maxwell is supposed to be weaker in combat, but I think it would be fair for him to at least regain some combat ability during the late game. He doesn't even fully cover the sanity drain of a dark sword so its not like he has too big of an advantage there. I think it would be pretty cool to have the combat clones actually be useful, but push their cost way further up the tech tree, like have them require purple gems and thulecite. Maybe he could even make a "tank" clone for a very big price (say 30 marble or 20 fuel or late game resources) that would be worse in combat than the duelists but taunt enemies drawing aggro.

- An alternative to improving his combat clones for lategame fighting would be to give him magic item abilities, but make sure they aren't too similar to Wanda's. For example, he could get more defensive buffs unlike Wanda's glass cannon buffs. Maybe he could utilize night armor in a more efficient way than other characters, like having his own "wigfrid" version of it with more durability, or getting a small speed buff from it (keep in mind he still has the sanity drain to not be too similar to Wanda)

- It would also be really cool if Maxwell could repair night armor, dark swords and maybe magical staves with nightmare fuel and gems respectively, say 10-20% per fuel. It would make it so both he and Wanda use these items in large amounts, but he uses them for efficiency, and she uses them for more potential.

- Maxwell consumes nightmare fuel in very large amounts (and will consume it even more from the changes I suggest) so it would be neat to have his own little ability to obtain fuel easier. Currently its probably harder to do than with other characters, though if this is intentional then that's fine. If it's not a nice solution would be a cheaper craft of the nightmare amulet, or maybe his own "glommer goop" consumable replacement, say its crafted from 2 nightmare fuel and drops your sanity by 30 when eaten.

- It would be nice to have some small lore related mechanic for Maxwell, since he is such a pivotal character. For example he gets attacked in the dark a second faster because Charlie is mad at him. Or you could combo that with the above suggestion, and give him a "curse" for nightmares like woodie has for treeguards. Maybe every time he walks into the dark and triggers the "I'm in the dark" quote, a single terrorbeak spawns no matter what his sanity is. Or maybe he just gets more nightmare creatures than an average player when insane because they are attracted to his strength. I'm no lore expert but I'm sure something cool could be added. Remember this doesn't make getting fuel easier, possibly even makes it harder, since the whole problem is fighting nightmares with a frail character. After all, woodie's bonus to treeguards is considered a downside in some situations, and he doesn't even have combat drawbacks. This would just be quality of life and make actually initiating the fight easier (though if Klei considers the difficulty of spawning nightmares one of his balanced drawbacks, then its fine. I just think its weird that the character with the most sanity regen would also be the most reliant on glommer.)

[King Maxwell]

Your ideas are very interesting, I believe I covered most of them in my rework ideas.

On 3/27/2022 at 1:30 AM, CyberKn1ght said:

- Maxwell definitely should receive picker clones that can pick grass and twigs. It is so frustrating to spend a whole day picking grass and twigs while there's a Maxwell who is supposed to be the god of resource collection not being able to help at all. I think it would be fine if the clones just dropped the item straight on the ground so you can later pick it up.

I slightly disagree that maxwell should be the god of collection, but more clone options are always fun, so I also covered that in my thread as side ideas.

On 3/27/2022 at 1:30 AM, CyberKn1ght said:

- Clones not being able to switch tools is fine if Klei considers that a limiting factor to his abilities, but clones should definitely be toggleable, or at least toggle them auto mining resources. It is so annoying to have everything on screen levelled even when you don't want it and makes marble and wood farms really inconvenient to make.

I don't think clones should be able to change tools freely, at least not for free but spending 1 fuel nightmare to change the tool I see that's one thing, now for sure they need a way to turn it on/off for quality of life and my suggestion was a mechanic similar to the abgail flower.

On 3/27/2022 at 1:30 AM, CyberKn1ght said:

- I know that Maxwell is supposed to be weaker in combat, but I think it would be fair for him to at least regain some combat ability during the late game. He doesn't even fully cover the sanity drain of a dark sword so its not like he has too big of an advantage there. I think it would be pretty cool to have the combat clones actually be useful, but push their cost way further up the tech tree, like have them require purple gems and thulecite. Maybe he could even make a "tank" clone for a very big price (say 30 marble or 20 fuel or late game resources) that would be worse in combat than the duelists but taunt enemies drawing aggro.

I disagree that maxwell must be weak in combat, he must be fragile which he already is, now I agree that he must have some combat advantage at the end of the game, so in my idea he gets bonuses with shadow weapons, not least because he must be the one who best understands shadow magic.
I don't particularly like the idea of a tank shadow, it takes away all the negative side of maxwell's low health but there must be people who like it and it's an interesting idea for that side.

On 3/27/2022 at 1:30 AM, CyberKn1ght said:

- An alternative to improving his combat clones for lategame fighting would be to give him magic item abilities, but make sure they aren't too similar to Wanda's. For example, he could get more defensive buffs unlike Wanda's glass cannon buffs. Maybe he could utilize night armor in a more efficient way than other characters, like having his own "wigfrid" version of it with more durability, or getting a small speed buff from it (keep in mind he still has the sanity drain to not be too similar to Wanda)

I prefer this approach of giving combat buffs to maxwell himself, but I think the way forward is the glass cannon, although wanda is already doing that, there are characters with similar roles and I don't see any problem with that. And I fully agree that he must have his own version of the night armor and I add that he must have his own version of the black sword, he is the former king of constancy and of all survivors the one who understands shadows best.

On 3/27/2022 at 1:30 AM, CyberKn1ght said:

- It would also be really cool if Maxwell could repair night armor, dark swords and maybe magical staves with nightmare fuel and gems respectively, say 10-20% per fuel. It would make it so both he and Wanda use these items in large amounts, but he uses them for efficiency, and she uses them for more potential.

I totally agree, it would be really cool for him to fix shadow items with nightmare fuel, I'd rather he just do it with his unique items, but if he doesn't get the items it would be really cool to fix the dark sword and night armor.

On 3/27/2022 at 1:30 AM, CyberKn1ght said:

- Maxwell consumes nightmare fuel in very large amounts (and will consume it even more from the changes I suggest) so it would be neat to have his own little ability to obtain fuel easier. Currently its probably harder to do than with other characters, though if this is intentional then that's fine. If it's not a nice solution would be a cheaper craft of the nightmare amulet, or maybe his own "glommer goop" consumable replacement, say its crafted from 2 nightmare fuel and drops your sanity by 30 when eaten.

I believe you haven't played with maxwell enough yet, it's very simple to farm nightmare fuel with maxwell, he has great sanity control, I can make 2 duelists and 1 farmer and go infinitely insane, I can make 1 duelist and 3 farmers or do 4 farmers and with a few holes Worm/Dark Sword helps mine or grow wood while I grow nightmare fuel and I don't even have to worry about boosting sanity again as maxwell will passively do it for me after I'm done farming.

On 3/27/2022 at 1:30 AM, CyberKn1ght said:

- It would be nice to have some small lore related mechanic for Maxwell, since he is such a pivotal character. For example he gets attacked in the dark a second faster because Charlie is mad at him. Or you could combo that with the above suggestion, and give him a "curse" for nightmares like woodie has for treeguards. Maybe every time he walks into the dark and triggers the "I'm in the dark" quote, a single terrorbeak spawns no matter what his sanity is. Or maybe he just gets more nightmare creatures than an average player when insane because they are attracted to his strength. I'm no lore expert but I'm sure something cool could be added. Remember this doesn't make getting fuel easier, possibly even makes it harder, since the whole problem is fighting nightmares with a frail character. After all, woodie's bonus to treeguards is considered a downside in some situations, and he doesn't even have combat drawbacks. This would just be quality of life and make actually initiating the fight easier (though if Klei considers the difficulty of spawning nightmares one of his balanced drawbacks, then its fine. I just think its weird that the character with the most sanity regen would also be the most reliant on glommer.)

If I'm not mistaken I saw somewhere that charlie attacks him 3 seconds after the other characters.
I don't understand why Maxwell needs Gloomer.

[Mr_Vol]

On 3/28/2022 at 3:18 PM, King Maxwell said:

I don't understand why Maxwell needs Gloomer.

He doesn't NEED Glommer but the heal gain and sanity lose is very helpful for Maxwell. 

You have have some really good idea for Maxwell and I can totally agree with alot that your saying King Maxwell.

I would like to also see his Diggers being able to dig up Barry bushing and saplings and grass tuffs again (only if you can control them maybe by examining the digable thing?)

Seeing the man has been studying the Codex and learning about the staffs and amulets could have a little boost using them. Like more damage/more uses/repair?

 

[King Maxwell]

 

6 hours ago, Mr_Vol said:

He doesn't NEED Glommer but the heal gain and sanity lose is very helpful for Maxwell. 

Yes I love glommer goop like maxwell, I didn't understand why it depended on glommer.

 

6 hours ago, Mr_Vol said:

I would like to also see his Diggers being able to dig up Barry bushing and saplings and grass tuffs again (only if you can control them maybe by examining the digable thing?)

If it is possible to control it would be great.

[Mr_Vol]

1 hour ago, King Maxwell said:

Yes I love glommer goop like maxwell, I didn't understand why it depended on glommer.

I am guessing he has not found a way to get Maxwell insane for too long. There really is not videos on tips or tricks with him and took me awhile. 

My main thing is to build a tree farm and summon 4 workers to farm the trees while I hold a Dark sword to get all the nightmare fuel I need.

With his low 75 hp he is hard to play in the early game but very rewarding.

[dl11111]

On 3/26/2022 at 5:29 PM, King Maxwell said:

Turning shadows on and off saving in the umbra codex, mechanics similar to abgail's flower, when clicking on the codex the shadows are stored inside it and when clicking again they are spawned, maximum sanity penalty continues even with shadows saved.

As Maxwell main myself (I just love how he hates everything and everyone while his knowledge of the constant is just amazing), I would love that idea. I hate how my random miner defiles Glommer's statue or keeps mining that lv1 marble tree every time I don't pay attention. And the whole "store inside" idea sounds like you could add a cool animation with it - How about the classic holding-the-codex-up and they jump in or out of it?

 

For the duelists, I am fine with how they are BUT how about a non-pvp armor? Something like 70%? Like this they still receive full damage in PvP by players (imagine fighting two shadows AND the Maxwell while all three have armor...) and they tank a little better for small and medium game like spiders, pigs and hounds?

 

To go a little whacky, how about make him consume nightmare fuel and he gets bit more health like how gears used to upgrade WX? Nothing crazy, maybe 5 hp per fuel up to max. 9 fuels = 120 hp total max health? On death it obviously resets and starting players have the choice to eat the fuel right at the start of a new world or keep it to make shadows and eat fuel later when its more accessable.

I am always joking on the server I am playing lately that I snort nightmare fuel since whenever someone asks me for some, I shamefully have to admit I have like 30 fuel with me all the time. Addiction is real... xD

[Chesmu]

On 3/26/2022 at 8:59 PM, King Maxwell said:

• Turning shadows on and off saving in the umbra codex, mechanics similar to abgail's flower, when clicking on the codex the shadows are stored inside it and when clicking again they are spawned, maximum sanity penalty continues even with shadows saved.

 

 

This is really needed, bu instead of "Turning on and off" we could use other terms like "Dismiss" or "Keep in standby", anything that resembles a kinda living thing.

On 3/26/2022 at 8:59 PM, King Maxwell said:

50% + durability of shadow items. Bonus damage using shadow items according to maxwell's current health, 25%(75hp), 45%(55hp), 65%(35hp), 85%(15hp).

Yes, they are very expensive, aquired by a very weak character, so give them a bit more use.

 

On 3/26/2022 at 8:59 PM, King Maxwell said:

• 2 new exclusive maxwell items, true dark sword and true night armor.
  -True dark sword damage 68/73/78 (34 when out of fuel) 100 uses, nightmare fuel restores 25% durability. No sanity penalty.
  -True night armor absorbs 95% damage 525 durability without passive sanity drain, decreases Sanity by 10% of total damage taken, +4/6/8 inventory slots. True night armor doesn't break at 0% it just stops absorbing damage but continues to decrease Sanity by 10% of total damage taken. Nightmare fuel restores 20% durability.
•  

Sorry but this is too overpowered.

On 3/26/2022 at 8:59 PM, King Maxwell said:

Taking the tool cost out of the shadows, it would be a huge quality of life improvement to just use 2 Nightmare Fuel.

They are using the tools you give them, that's the reason for the cost. If they use shadow tools of their own, they should cost 5 nightmare fuel.

On 3/26/2022 at 8:59 PM, King Maxwell said:

New shadows, harvester leftover harvests grass, twigs, berries and etc, rowing shadow would row along with the maxwell and etc, basically shadows for all game functions, be creative.

To some degree would be a good idea, they should not be able to do all things tho.

On 3/26/2022 at 8:59 PM, King Maxwell said:

I don't really know how to improve duelist shadows without making maxwell a new wendy, maybe copy maxwell's armor for a little more survivability.

Duelist shadows use kiting techniques with good timing, and they have a considerable amount of damage; Since they are shadows they will be weaker than player ofc. instead of giving them armor, a more costly Shadow Warrior should be added to the list.

On 3/26/2022 at 8:59 PM, King Maxwell said:

Copying items using Nightmare Fuel, maxwell could copy any item in his inventory creating a copy with half the durability that the copied item had, the copies disappear if they leave maxwell's inventory.

A very nice idea.

On 3/26/2022 at 8:59 PM, King Maxwell said:

Maxwell could create a copy of any survivor including himself, this copy would work as a ds shadow and with a duration of 1 day, the shadow would follow its original.

Maybe as a decoy for PVP, but one day is way too much.

[King Maxwell]

On 4/17/2022 at 8:26 AM, dl11111 said:

As Maxwell main myself (I just love how he hates everything and everyone while his knowledge of the constant is just amazing), I would love that idea. I hate how my random miner defiles Glommer's statue or keeps mining that lv1 marble tree every time I don't pay attention. And the whole "store inside" idea sounds like you could add a cool animation with it - How about the classic holding-the-codex-up and they jump in or out of it?

That animation would be amazing!

 

On 4/17/2022 at 8:26 AM, dl11111 said:

For the duelists, I am fine with how they are BUT how about a non-pvp armor? Something like 70%? Like this they still receive full damage in PvP by players (imagine fighting two shadows AND the Maxwell while all three have armor...) and they tank a little better for small and medium game like spiders, pigs and hounds?

I don't play pvp, I don't find pvp in this game fun so for me it's a great idea.
I don't remember the last time I made a duelist, it seems so much more useful to make a dark sword with that nightmare fuel and kill the mobs myself. hahahaha

On 4/17/2022 at 8:26 AM, dl11111 said:

To go a little whacky, how about make him consume nightmare fuel and he gets bit more health like how gears used to upgrade WX? Nothing crazy, maybe 5 hp per fuel up to max. 9 fuels = 120 hp total max health? On death it obviously resets and starting players have the choice to eat the fuel right at the start of a new world or keep it to make shadows and eat fuel later when its more accessable.

I particularly like that it has 75hp but I wouldn't mind having more hp.

[King Maxwell]

On 4/17/2022 at 12:48 PM, Chesmu said:

This is really needed, bu instead of "Turning on and off" we could use other terms like "Dismiss" or "Keep in standby", anything that resembles a kinda living thing.

It's exactly that feeling of something alive that I wanted to describe but as I don't speak English it may not have been clear but I'm glad you mentioned it.

On 4/17/2022 at 12:48 PM, Chesmu said:

Sorry but this is too overpowered.

With the armor part I agree but for the sword I think it's valid, it's still inferior to wanda's watch but I prefer it to be something even better than a sword, maybe a royal scepter just to show maxwell's superiority over the insignificant survivors of constance.
And I'll admit that this idea just came from being jealous of the cool stuff in wanda's shadows. hahahaha
Now about the armor I believe there may be a specific armor for maxwell, my first idea was a bit too op really but something like dark cloak would basically be a backpack but being a stylish dark cloak after all, being stylish is very important and I bet 99 % of main maxwells like to be stylish, also I wouldn't mind if it had something like 10% damage reduction just to avoid 1 hit depths Worm when I get distracted in the cave but more importantly it's an awesome cloak made of shadows with stots same as a backpack.

On 4/17/2022 at 12:48 PM, Chesmu said:

They are using the tools you give them, that's the reason for the cost. If they use shadow tools of their own, they should cost 5 nightmare fuel.

I don't see a problem with a nightmare fuel increase to remove tool costs but I think 4 is a better number, I just don't want to carry flint in the late game. this can even be done in a different way, maybe an upgrade in the umbra codex using nightmare fuel so that at the beginning you still need the tools but in the end you can use only nightmare fuel or even the option of both.

 

On 4/17/2022 at 12:48 PM, Chesmu said:

To some degree would be a good idea, they should not be able to do all things tho.

It's not something I really want but having more shadows is always fun, I don't have specific ideas but with creativity you can have fun/interesting shadows.

On 4/17/2022 at 12:48 PM, Chesmu said:

Duelist shadows use kiting techniques with good timing, and they have a considerable amount of damage; Since they are shadows they will be weaker than player ofc. instead of giving them armor, a more costly Shadow Warrior should be added to the list.

I don't really care about the duelist shadows, in fact I prefer it until I don't have any and maxwell goes to fight himself to expose his 75hp more but having a duelist shadow I wish it was better, I can't remember the last time I used one.
A new better duelist shadow is interesting, I believe even a better idea than improving the current one.

 

On 4/17/2022 at 12:48 PM, Chesmu said:

Maybe as a decoy for PVP, but one day is way too much.

I don't play pvp so I'm not sure how this would work, if the problem is combat, I believe shadows can only help with gathering, I just think it would be fun to give my slaves extra arms to work for me, I mean... give extra arms to help my friends.
These shadows would take as much sanity out of maxwell as a normal shadow, so it's just for maxwell to give the task of getting wood and rocks to someone else when he wants to do something else and as something even less efficient than maxwell using his own shadow would be something else fun that would suit maxwell because i believe he would rather lend the shadow to someone else so that person can do the work for him.

[King Maxwell]

After the feedbacks I will give a new idea of rework, this time instead of free thoughts I will try to give a complete idea of how I would do the rework.

• It is no longer necessary to drop the codex umbra to create the shadows, just have it in your inventory.
  Shadow creation animation like DS single player.
  Having to drop the item is unintuitive and practical and the single player animation is nicer.
• Feeding the codex umbra with 40 Nightmare Fuel will reduce the cost of Shadows to 2 Nightmare Fuel.
  I wish I didn't have to carry flint for my shadows at the end game.

• If you have shadows and you right click on the codex umbra, the shadows will jump to the codex umbra being stored until called again, the sanity penalty continues with the stored shadows.
  If you have shadows stored in the codex umbra and you right click on it, the shadows will pop out.
  Greater shadow control, much needed.

• Maxwell gains +25% damage with shadow weapons.
  A damage increase with shadow weapons would be nice, showing his knowledge of shadows and a little more damage is nice for the 75 hp

• Shadow items used by maxwell have +25% durability.
  Again, more durability to demonstrate your knowledge of shadows and having night armor and dark sword with a little more durability is very useful.

• Maxwell loses 25% less sanity when using shadow items.
  Maxwell shouldn't lose the same amount of sanity as other survivors when using shadow items.

• 3 new items exclusive to maxwell.
  -Fallen King's Shadow Scepter: Damage 68 (34 when out of fuel) 80 durability, can be refilled with Nightmare Fuel, Nightmare Fuel recharges 25%.
  Crafting: 1 dark sword, 5 nightmare fuel, 1 walking cane, 1 purple Gem 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A weapon to show Maxwell's majesty.
  
  -Dark Cloak: 10% damage reduction 8 inventory slots is fireproof, cannot be placed in inventory or chests.
  Crafting: 1 night armor, 2 nightmare fuel, 1 piggyback, 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A more stylish backpack giving a more majestic look to the ex king maxwell, I would like the 10% hp reduction just to avoid depths worm ik is really annoying when I'm distracted in the caves and I take ik.
  
  -Cloak of Shadows of the Fallen King: 95% damage reduction (0% when out of fuel), 6 inventory slots, 525 durability, nightmare fuel refills 20% durability. 10% of damage taken is deducted from sanity, when unequipped, the items stored inside it fall to the ground..
  Crafting: 1 dark cloak, 20 nightmare fuel, 1 bone armor, 1 krampus Sack, 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A very strong and difficult item to make, I believe it is broken but the ingredients balance, I just think it would be fun to have.

This would be the rework I would give at maxwell, I would like your opinion on my rework idea.

[Chesmu]

12 hours ago, King Maxwell said:

-Cloak of Shadows of the Fallen King: 95% damage reduction (0% when out of fuel), 6 inventory slots, 525 durability, nightmare fuel refills 20% durability. 10% of damage taken is deducted from sanity, when unequipped, the items stored inside it fall to the ground..
Crafting: 1 dark cloak, 20 nightmare fuel, 1 bone armor, 1 krampus Sack, 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
A very strong and difficult item to make, I believe it is broken but the ingredients balance, I just think it would be fun to have.

I love all the other ideas, especially Maxwell being more efficient using Shadow items.
 

The amount of damage reduction Cloack of Shadow has will be like a godmode tho, maybe a maximum of 85% damage reduction would be more realistic. I know it will be an expensive item, but that pays off as being a backpack and an armor at the same time, which is still nice.

[Mike23Ua]

Wendy rework added Pipspook, Webber Rework added Nurse Spiders & later also Water Spiders- There is a very very real possibility that a Maxwell Rework will add a new Shadow mob or two into the game..

And just like nurse spiders & Webber- Would be terrible for anyone not playing as Maxwell.

[King Maxwell]

16 hours ago, Chesmu said:

The amount of damage reduction Cloack of Shadow has will be like a godmode tho, maybe a maximum of 85% damage reduction would be more realistic. I know it will be an expensive item, but that pays off as being a backpack and an armor at the same time, which is still nice.

I agree, this item is just because I want something incredibly op in maxwell but I like your idea, something fairer maybe like 65% damage reduction and 8 slots, no sanity penalty but removing krampus sack from the recipe or maybe just copying the hamlet's vortex cloak, or I would just remove the item myself, I know I overdid this item. hahahaha
How would you do it in a way that you think would be balanced?

13 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Wendy rework added Pipspook, Webber Rework added Nurse Spiders & later also Water Spiders- There is a very very real possibility that a Maxwell Rework will add a new Shadow mob or two into the game..

And just like nurse spiders & Webber- Would be terrible for anyone not playing as Maxwell.

Hope not.
In my opinion the rework is ready, klei just needs to copy it, obviously because they are my ideas I like 100%.
(well... She could ignore the last item suggested as it is really broken.)

[King Maxwell]

A new update of the ideas after some more feedback let me know what you think of the changes.

• It is no longer necessary to drop the codex umbra to create the shadows, just have it in your inventory.
  Shadow creation animation like DS single player.
  Having to drop the item is unintuitive and practical and the single player animation is nicer.
• Feeding the codex umbra with 40 Nightmare Fuel will reduce the cost of Shadows to 2 Nightmare Fuel.
  I wish I didn't have to carry flint for my shadows at the end game.

• If you have shadows and you right click on the codex umbra, the shadows will jump to the codex umbra being stored until called again, the sanity penalty continues with the stored shadows.
  If you have shadows stored in the codex umbra and you right click on it, the shadows will pop out.
  Greater shadow control, much needed.

• Maxwell gains +25% 20% damage with shadow weapons.
  A damage increase with shadow weapons would be nice, showing his knowledge of shadows and a little more damage is nice for the 75 hp.

• Shadow items used by maxwell have +25% durability.
  Again, more durability to demonstrate your knowledge of shadows and having night armor and dark sword with a little more durability is very useful.

• Maxwell loses 25% 35% less sanity when using shadow items.
  Maxwell shouldn't lose the same amount of sanity as other survivors when using shadow items.

• new: Maxwell can eat nightmare fuel.
  -nightmare fuel: hungry 0, sanity -5, hp 5

• 2 new items exclusive to maxwell.
  -Fallen King's Shadow Scepter: Damage 68 (34 17 when out of fuel) 80 durability, can be refilled with Nightmare Fuel, Nightmare Fuel recharges 25%.
  Crafting: 1 dark sword, 5 nightmare fuel, 1 walking cane, 1 purple Gem 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A weapon to show Maxwell's majesty.
  
  -Dark Cloak: 10% 5% damage reduction 8 inventory slots is fireproof, cannot be placed in inventory or chests.
  Crafting: 1 night armor, 2 nightmare fuel, 1 piggyback, 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A more stylish backpack giving a more majestic look to the ex king maxwell, I would like the 10% 5% hp reduction just to avoid depths worm ik is really annoying when I'm distracted in the caves and I take ik.
  
  -Cloak of Shadows of the Fallen King: 95% damage reduction (0% when out of fuel), 6 inventory slots, 525 durability, nightmare fuel refills 20% durability. 10% of damage taken is deducted from sanity, when unequipped, the items stored inside it fall to the ground..
  Crafting: 1 dark cloak, 20 nightmare fuel, 1 bone armor, 1 krampus Sack, 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A very strong and difficult item to make, I believe it is broken but the ingredients balance, I just think it would be fun to have.
  it's a really broken item and it's better not to be added.

[dl11111]

1 hour ago, King Maxwell said:

A new update of the ideas after some more feedback let me know what you think of the changes.

I love how much thought you put in all the details and balancing and of course huge thanks everyone else here bringing their amazing input together! Makes me really excited for a rework (which probably will be last of all characters to come . . .) for someone I already love playing. I wonder if Klei will have their own little quirky things for it or if they even do some stuff you guys suggested.

If Maxwell finally gets bonuses for using shadow items, I wouldn't even want any changes to buff his HP. Like not at all! Dark swords are already my go-to weapon (magic rush first autumn ftw) mixed with a ham bat for the small garbage but I do have to say I rarely ever use the night armor. Your suggested buffs, especially the slower sanity drain would be damn nice! This way you can compete with higher HP characters in your own way, depending on recources of course but still! Kinda hate that some people see Maxwell as a burden in fights, he is good in his own way.

[King Maxwell]

6 hours ago, dl11111 said:

I love how much thought you put in all the details and balancing and of course huge thanks everyone else here bringing their amazing input together! Makes me really excited for a rework (which probably will be last of all characters to come . . .) for someone I already love playing. I wonder if Klei will have their own little quirky things for it or if they even do some stuff you guys suggested.

If Maxwell finally gets bonuses for using shadow items, I wouldn't even want any changes to buff his HP. Like not at all! Dark swords are already my go-to weapon (magic rush first autumn ftw) mixed with a ham bat for the small garbage but I do have to say I rarely ever use the night armor. Your suggested buffs, especially the slower sanity drain would be damn nice! This way you can compete with higher HP characters in your own way, depending on recources of course but still! Kinda hate that some people see Maxwell as a burden in fights, he is good in his own way.

Thanks I'm trying to create a rework so good but so good that klei looked at it and thought "hey, why don't we just copy this?"
I'm even learning how to create a mod so they can play the rework and give balance opinions, I'm horrible at it so it's likely to take a while to come out, I always get a headache while doing it, technology is not my strong point.

I'm also extremely excited and looking forward to the rework and unfortunately I also think it will be the last one at least it gives me more time to work on my ideas for the rework.

[King Maxwell]

After more feedbacks I'm making a new update, again I would like opinions about it especially compared to my last update.

• It is no longer necessary to drop the codex umbra to create the shadows, just have it in your inventory.
  Shadow creation animation like DS single player.
  explanation: Having to drop the item is unintuitive and practical and the single player animation is nicer.
   

• If you have shadows and you right click on the codex umbra, the shadows will jump to the codex umbra being stored until called again, the sanity penalty continues with the stored shadows.
  If you have shadows stored in the codex umbra and you right click on it, the shadows will pop out.
  explanation: Greater shadow control, much needed.
   

• Feeding the codex umbra with 40 Nightmare Fuel will reduce the cost of Shadows to 2 Nightmare Fuel.
  I wish I didn't have to carry flint for my shadows at the end game.
   
• codex umbra update: 1 codex umbra, 1 purple gem, 20 nightmare fuel, 2 thulecite.
  -shadow partner: This shadow will be very close to maxwell and will be unreachable (except maxwell if he wants to destroy him), this shadow will copy maxwell's moves and attack whatever he attacks with 25% of the original maxwell's damage.
  Creation: 2 Nightmare Fuel, -35% Sanity.
  Limited to 1 partner shadow at a time.
  Explanation: I really think that maxwell should have some dps bonus later in the game but nothing too big, a shadow partner seems to me much more interesting than my initial idea of damage bonus with shadow weapons and that way you should choose if want a damage increase at that moment, a worker or even a duelist in addition to not being able to use your dps bonus + 3 duelists.
  -The codex got more powerful allowing shadows to create their own tools.
  All shadows will have their tool cost removed costing only 2 nightmare fuel and corresponding sanity.
  Explanation: The cost of tools in the end game is just an annoyance, I think it can be removed for a better quality of life but kept during the beginning for balance purposes.

• Maxwell gains +25% 20% damage with shadow weapons.
  A damage increase with shadow weapons would be nice, showing his knowledge of shadows and a little more damage is nice for the 75 hp.

• Shadow items used by maxwell have +25% durability.
  Explanation: more durability to demonstrate your knowledge of shadows and having night armor and dark sword with a little more durability is very useful.

• Maxwell loses 25% 35% less sanity when using shadow items.
  Explanation: Maxwell shouldn't lose the same amount of sanity as other survivors when using shadow items.
   

• Maxwell gains 25% less healing from food and healing items.
  Explanation: Maxwell's time on the Throne of Shadows affected his body's ability to recover.
   

•  Maxwell can eat nightmare fuel.
  -nightmare fuel: hungry 0, sanity -5, hp 5
  Explanation: Maxwell can absorb the energy of Nightmare Fuel to heal himself a little in exchange for some sanity.

• new shadow:
  -shadow sailor: would row along with you increasing the strength and speed of the boat.
  crafting: 2 nightmare fuel, 1 oar, -20% sanity.
   

• 2 new items exclusive to maxwell.
  -Fallen King's Shadow Scepter: Damage 68 (34 17 when out of fuel) 80 durability, can be refilled with Nightmare Fuel, Nightmare Fuel recharges 25%.
  Crafting: 1 dark sword, 5 nightmare fuel, 1 walking cane, 1 purple Gem 1 codex umbra v2( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  or
  Fallen King's Shadow Scepter: Damage 68, 160 durability.
  Crafting: 8 nightmare fuel codex umbra v2( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  Explanation: It would be great for Maxwell to have his own exclusive version of the "dark sword".
  
  -Dark Cloak: 10% 5% damage reduction 8 inventory slots is fireproof, cannot be placed in inventory or chests.
  Crafting: 1 night armor, 2 nightmare fuel, 1 piggyback, 1 codex umbra v2( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A more stylish backpack giving a more majestic look to the ex king maxwell, I would like the 10% 5% hp reduction just to avoid depths worm ik is really annoying when I'm distracted in the caves and I take ik.
  
  -Cloak of Shadows of the Fallen King: 95% damage reduction (0% when out of fuel), 6 inventory slots, 525 durability, nightmare fuel refills 20% durability. 10% of damage taken is deducted from sanity, when unequipped, the items stored inside it fall to the ground..
  Crafting: 1 dark cloak, 20 nightmare fuel, 1 bone armor, 1 krampus Sack, 1 codex umbra( codex umbra is not consumed).
  Needs shadow manipulator to prototype.
  A very strong and difficult item to make, I believe it is broken but the ingredients balance, I just think it would be fun to have.
  it's a really broken item and it's better not to be added.

[Ketrai]

On 4/19/2022 at 3:39 PM, Chesmu said:

I love all the other ideas, especially Maxwell being more efficient using Shadow items.
 

The amount of damage reduction Cloack of Shadow has will be like a godmode tho, maybe a maximum of 85% damage reduction would be more realistic. I know it will be an expensive item, but that pays off as being a backpack and an armor at the same time, which is still nice.

95% is the same as night armor. That being said, I don't think any given character should be given a truly powerful, late game item. I guess it's a little awkward with how Wanda has the alarming clock making her a mini wolfgang with more range... But at the very least that comes with having 40 HP at most, requiring expensive night armor to have any safety. 

The only way this armor would be fair in any way, is if it also came with huge, huge downsides.

In the end I also just think boosting a character with stats isn't really the most interesting way to balance one. It's mostly a bit boring and causes the character to be more selfishly picked rather than what they can do for the team. Sure, it fits his persona, but as it stands currently, his main uses focus around digging up more wood and stone than other characters, quickly. And I feel like such aspects could be improved, and are the most important to improve.

[BassuTales]

I was thinking a lot for a maxwell rework, there some extra ideas:

-The shadows will do double damage to maxwell, but he will hit the same. So the battles will be faster, but there will be more risk.

-Maxwell can carry 2 staks of the same stakable item (wood, grass, gold, etc) adding an extra slot per item, like the slingshot. This could have a penalty on max sanity, like 2 sanity per new stack.

-The Duelist will atack as always if maxwell dont atack, but if he join, the douelist will copy him figth patron.

To coperative:

-Maxwell can send an item (or 1 stack) to a player (where ever they are) with the codex umbra, the craft will sumon a shadow hand in the ground, you give the item, an the hand apear to the other player and drop the item.

-Maxwell can craft an expensive item to despawn shadows nightmares, this can be use for all characters.