Cyclum and Metheus (lore)

[Falkenpelz]

Yes, yet another lore thread about the ancients. I've recently watched lore videos by James Bucket and OrangE, where they both independently called the ancients' staff wielder/ king Metheus and the torch wielder/queen Cyclum. Since I always believed it is vice versa, I wanted to open a discussion about who is who and does what in the ancients' history. I've tried to sort my argumentative points below:

Lore summary so far: 

Spoiler

The ancients where bug-like, highly intelligent beings, who used to leave on the surface of the Constant, but for some reason decided to move to the caves. They seemed to previously worship the moon, but kind of cut this connection by moving underground. They were ruled by a staff wielder and a torch wielder, who are assumed to be king and queen. The staff wielder got fascinated by nightmarefuel as a source of new powers, which they somehow drew from the ancient gateway. This apparently led to a flourishing society and greater popularity of the staff wielder, who for example seemed to engage in magic connected to the reanimated skeletons we ourselves can create ingame. The torch wielder meanwhile lost influence and left. After a while, things started to go down, with the nightmarefuel taking control over the civilization, leading to people's deaths and some nightmare-eye-entity in the gateway awakening. Only then the torch wielder returned with the tragic torch and attempted to fight back, but was eventually corrupted by nightmarefuel. Somehow, part of the gateway broke and probably stopped the absolute catastrophe, but the civilization was already doomed at that point.

The implications of the name Metheus: 

Spoiler

In greek mythology there are two important men with their name containing "-metheus", the more popular being Prometheus, who had a brother named Epimetheus. Prometheus means "the Forseeing", while Epimetheus means "the one who sees after/later", which refers to their characteristics: Prometheus was the wise one, who could forsee the results of his actions, while Epimetheus only saw the consequences afterwards. 'Metheus' alone therefore is technically an ambigous name without the determining prefix. While the versions of the tale vary, in some sources Epimetheus brings catastrophe over humankind by opening the Pandora's box out of curiosity and letting free disease and death. His more popular brother Prometheus is known as the creator of humankind, who distorted the connection between humans and gods by convincing the humans to take the meat of sacrifices for themselves and offer the gods only the bones. He also brought humans the fire from heaven, probably his most known deed. As a punishment from the gods he was chained to the Caucasus and had to suffer eternally for he couldn't die (although one day Hercules was nice enough to free him). 

Why the staff wielder could be Metheus: 

Spoiler

While they might not have considered every mythological detail, Klei (known for literature references anyways) was surely aware of the connotations of the name Metheus. As the staff wielder was basically the one to "open the Pandora's box" by their fascination for nightmarefuel, they could be Metheus as in Epimetheus.

A more blatantly obvious reason: the puzzle that grants the staff is called the Metheus puzzle, while the one for the torch is called the Cyclum puzzle.

Why the torch wielder could by Metheus: 

Spoiler

This time, rather as in Prometheus, the lightbringer, with the torch as a very important insignium, as it is actually used in battle against the darkness. The consequences of eternal suffering could also fit the torch wielder becoming corrupted by shadows. Also the torch wielder seemed to not agree with the staff wielder about the use of nightmarefuel, maybe because they could forsee a catastrophe happening?

Metheus, Charlie and the Tragic Torch: 

Spoiler

First of all, I have often heard that Klei confirmed that Metheus is female (does someone have a link for that confirmation?), so no matter what she wields, she would have to be queen, not king. Many people have since theorized, that Metheus is actually the shadow being that Charlie fused with (if it was the ancients' queen who was getting corrupted by shadows, this fits quite well) and in the Axiom Visus short we got a hint in a hidden message, that could as well be a confirmation: 'Metheus is here'. What do we see in this short? Queen Charlie arrives at the lunar island, absorbs gestalts with the tragic torch and uses it to see the moons true form. The moon does not wake up in the short yet, so the only one who arrives somewhere and is "here" is technically Queen Charlie. And the hidden message tells us, that Metheus arrives together with her, so there isn't much room for theorizing, where else Metheus could be in that short. This connects Charlie to Metheus and Metheus to the tragic torch (it is the very same design the torch wielder shows up with in the murals to battle the shadows). Those are the main reasons I believe that Metheus is the queen and torch wielder of the ancients.

But then why are the puzzles labeled vice versa? 

Spoiler

I have no effing idea. But on the other hand, the second, more important puzzle needs one vital thing: a partner. You need to share and SWITCH your codes and information constantly, maybe that theme of switching is applied to the name of the puzzles as well?

 

[DaZoul]

or it's just a simple mistake

[Dextops]

i just don't think metheus or cyclum are their names in the first place especially cyclum. Cyclum just means cycle in latin and in the cyclum puzzle maxwell has been booted off the throne and charlie takes it and it seems that it will just be a never ending cycle which is why i think its called cyclum