wachunga Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 In an effort to avoid this bug, I like to drip solidifying liquids into another liquid. The idea is that when debris is formed, it quickly sinks out of the way and the next drip solidifies in a clean space. However I've noticed odd behavior which I previously attributed to the ineffable will of ONI. In this screenshot, the gold debris exchanges no heat even though it is sitting in much colder crude. In this screenshot, molten copper somehow got underneath the molten lead even though the lead is heavier. This can be problematic as wires or other stuff that ought to be protected by the relatively cool lead bath is now exposed to hot molten copper. I think what is happening is that sometimes the game thinks the debris is one cell higher. Visually the debris has sunk down. But for purposes of heat exchange it's still where it originally formed, the cell above. This explains the first example because there is no cellular medium for the debris to exchange heat with in the above cell. Painting in a solid at that location caused the debris to instantly start exchanging heat as if it was entombed in that solid. In the second example, a newly arriving drip of molten copper forms on top of the lead bath. The game thinks the debris is in that location and erroneously exchanges heat between debris and molten copper. This melts the debris forming molten copper in the "correct" spot (where the debris visually was). The molten lead that was previously in that spot is displaced upwards and the screenshot is the result. All sorts of havoc may happen next. A solution that seems to work is using mesh tiles to force the debris downwards. Apparently this makes the game calculate the position of the debris properly. This reminds me a lot of the conveyor debris bug that eventually got fixed. This seems much more niche however and considering how long it took for the conveyor to be fixed, I doubt this will ever be intentionally addressed. I have seen the occasional report from other people that I now think may have been caused by this. So here's hoping google picks this up for such people in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRup Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 1 hour ago, wachunga said: This reminds me a lot of the conveyor debris bug that eventually got fixed. If I may add something is that this fix is native to DLC and vanilla is waiting for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachunga Posted June 4, 2021 Author Share Posted June 4, 2021 16 minutes ago, JRup said: If I may add something is that this fix is native to DLC and vanilla is waiting for it... I should have clarified that I meant the offscreen conveyor bug. But you have a good point. For all I know the debris splitting bug fix in the DLC may also fix this bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachunga Posted June 5, 2021 Author Share Posted June 5, 2021 The first linked bug has apparently been fixed for the DLC. Which makes me both happy (finally fixed) and sad (no need for my clever solution now). Ahh such is life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hjoyn Posted June 6, 2021 Share Posted June 6, 2021 On 6/4/2021 at 6:38 AM, wachunga said: In this screenshot, molten copper somehow got underneath the molten lead even though the lead is heavier. This can be problematic as wires or other stuff that ought to be protected by the relatively cool lead bath is now exposed to hot molten copper. In fairness, liquid density is sketchy at the best of times, you will often see more dense and far more massive liquid tiles fail to push up less dense and less massive liquids, even for multiple tiles at a time. I saw this quite often when melting debris in a liquid pool, only for the pool of denser liquid to fail to push up the less dense melted debris. Many a carbon explosion occurred because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakemw Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 On 6/5/2021 at 6:26 AM, wachunga said: The first linked bug has apparently been fixed for the DLC. Which makes me both happy (finally fixed) and sad (no need for my clever solution now). Ahh such is life. Hasn't been fixed in my testing. If there is a fix it must still be in the pipeline to getting into a release. edit: That seems to be the case judging by the date of the dev comment posted in the bug report. Life will be different without the debris heat deletion bug. It will be weird being able to just make "normal" volcano tamer builds. Also just cracking a metal volcano open and ignoring it for a long time letting the heat deletion bug eliminate like 90% of the heat will result in much more heat escaping into the surroundings. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wachunga Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 On 6/7/2021 at 4:05 AM, blakemw said: Also just cracking a metal volcano open and ignoring it for a long time letting the heat deletion bug eliminate like 90% of the heat will result in much more heat escaping into the surroundings. It'll be interesting to see how many people have a rude surprise when their volcano tamers overheat. The question is how often does the bug actually happen in practice. I've seen it occur in videos from the popular people, but is that an isolated incident or a constant event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakemw Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 10 hours ago, wachunga said: It'll be interesting to see how many people have a rude surprise when their volcano tamers overheat. The question is how often does the bug actually happen in practice. I've seen it occur in videos from the popular people, but is that an isolated incident or a constant event? In most cases if the player hasn't engineered their build to mitigate the bug then it's happening all the time with the main question being how much effect it is having. It happens whenever molten metal drips onto metal debris when the debris is substantially colder than the the molten metal. An example would be Francis John's video on metal volcano tamers. Especially when the build is allowed to leave metal debris under the volcano between eruptions (basically when metal is being removed more slowly than it is added by the volcano), then perhaps a half to two-thirds the heat can be deleted by the bug, like in the linked video the iron is about 600 C, so while it should be forming 1400 C debris, instead 800 C of temperature is just lost. Suffice to say that build would not be stable without the heat deletion bug and should be putting about twice the heat load on the turbines, which would overwhelm the self-cooling ability. If there is prompt sweeping so the debris don't get a long time to cool down, then the heat loss is probably more like 10-20%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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