# Kiln produces 4k DTU/s, not 20k DTU/s

• Branch: Live Branch Version: Windows Pending

Hi,

For some reason kilns don't produce nearly as much heat as advertised. It says in the description it produces 20k DTU/s, which should be more than the metal refinery, but in fact the metal refinery outputs it's heat into a liquid, while the kiln's heat comes from the building itself. Buildings count as 1/5 for heat calculations, so the result is 4k DTU/s of output.

Please fix by either changing the output to be 5x higher, or change the description to match the actual values produced.

Steps to Reproduce

1. debug

2. Build a kiln in an insulated vacuum

3. place 200kg of the same material the kiln is made from

4. heat both the kiln and the raw material to an arbitrary high point, say 1000 degrees C

5. transfer the heat from the kiln into a gas and note the result

6. transfer the heat from the 200kg of raw material into a gas.

7. compare the results of items #5 and #6. The raw materials contain and transfer much more heat.

You can also try with 40kg of raw material, in which case the results will be close to the same as the 200kg kiln, which doesn't add up.

## User Feedback

Posted (edited)

The problem here is how buildings generate heat, the 20k is broken into two components.  4k "Normal operation" and 16k "Excess produced". Normal operation heats the building itself while excess produced heats the surrounding gas or liquid. In a vacuum that 16k never happens.

Your test is flawed in that it just shows that something with 1/5 the thermal mass does indeed have 1/5 the thermal energy. It's not meaningful. Run the test by having the kiln actually do work in an atmosphere for x number of seconds. Calculate the change in thermal energy of the entire system and it ought to add up to 20k per second.

Edited by wachunga
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6 hours ago, wachunga said:

Your test is flawed in that it just shows that something with 1/5 the thermal mass does indeed have 1/5 the thermal energy. It's not meaningful. Run the test by having the kiln actually do work in an atmosphere for x number of seconds. Calculate the change in thermal energy of the entire system and it ought to add up to 20k per second.

You can't, the materials in the kiln absorb the heat.

6 hours ago, wachunga said:

The problem here is how buildings generate heat, the 20k is broken into two components.  4k "Normal operation" and 16k "Excess produced". Normal operation heats the building itself while excess produced heats the surrounding gas or liquid. In a vacuum that 16k never happens.

This is the bug then, yes? Machines shouldn't just produce less heat in a vacuum, they should overheat faster.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, n_t_p said:

You can't, the materials in the kiln absorb the heat.

Use chlorine as the atmosphere and the heating to the coal inside the kiln is inconsequential. My example is a gold kiln inside 4 cells of 40kg chlorine total at 0C. Kilns take 40 seconds to run. During that time the 125 kg 0C coal inside the kiln heated up to ~0.05C. The kiln and chlorine heated up to ~31.8C. Doing the math gives ~20 kDTU/s as expected.

1 hour ago, n_t_p said:

This is the bug then, yes? Machines shouldn't just produce less heat in a vacuum, they should overheat faster.

Less a bug and more a design choice that allows for potential abuse. Getting rid of the excess produced mechanic entirely and just heating the building sounds like a good idea, but doing so may open up a can of worms. Would all buildings then be able to dump their heat to atmosphere in normal play conditions? I've never looked that far into it and don't know offhand. For example the polymer press is notorious for overheating, turns out it is 32k normal and 0.5k excess. Now 32k is substantially more than 20k, but just as an illustration of potential issues.

I suppose you could special case the excess produced to check for an atmosphere and put it all into normal operation when there is none, but is it really worth the dev time?

Edited by wachunga