Modders: Your new friend at Klei!

[mentalvary]

That sounds like an extremely helpful mod  ^^

On a serious note. Why do we have to do the stuff in Spriter like we have to for weapons then? We need to name our animations BUILD as you might know.

Also, all armors override multiple symbols (front, side, back) yet work with only one line

owner.AnimState:OverrideSymbol("swap_body", "armor_marble", "swap_body")

So I wouldn't really know how to recreate this with spriter.

 

Oh lord, Carrot Legs would not only have to watch out for hounds but also all the rabbits trying to gnaw at his legs.

 

But yes, I'm curious how to create armor in spriter as well. Or if you have some more info about the "strange mesh" which clips hats.

[Malacath]

Oh lord, Carrot Legs would not only have to watch out for hounds but also all the rabbits trying to gnaw at his legs.

 

But yes, I'm curious how to create armor in spriter as well. Or if you have some more info about the "strange mesh" which clips hats.

You can take a look at my tutorial which is a workaround for the clipping problem for weapons at least. Maybe you are clever enough to apply it to armor as well  ; )

[mentalvary]

You can take a look at my tutorial which is a workaround for the clipping problem for weapons at least. Maybe you are clever enough to apply it to armor as well  ; )

 

I've browsed through your tutorial before, my biggest problem is still that I don't know how the game references the animations/views But I guess I'll go dig around in the code some more and try to find something. Thanks.

[simplex]

That sounds like an extremely helpful mod  ^^

On a serious note. Why do we have to do the stuff in Spriter like we have to for weapons then? We need to name our animations BUILD as you might know.

Also, all armors override multiple symbols (front, side, back) yet work with only one line

owner.AnimState:OverrideSymbol("swap_body", "armor_marble", "swap_body")

So I wouldn't really know how to recreate this with spriter.

It's not overriding multiple symbols, it's just overriding the swap_body animation symbol, which is invisible otherwise.

What this line does is say "override the swap_body (1st argument) symbol from inst.AnimState with the swap_body (3rd argument) found in the armor_marble (2nd argument) build".

[Malacath]

It's not overriding multiple symbols, it's just overriding the swap_body animation symbol, which is invisible otherwise.

What this line does is say "override the swap_body (1st argument) symbol from inst.AnimState with the swap_body (3rd argument) found in the armor_marble (2nd argument) build".

I'm still confused. There is clearly more than one symbol involved in animating a body with armor.

[simplex]

I'm still confused. There is clearly more than one symbol involved in animating a body with armor.

Maybe it's a "root symbol", representing a collection (subtree, if you'd like) of symbols, but I'm not sure. @Cheerio?

Edited November 8, 2013 by simplex

[Malacath]

Maybe it's a "root symbol", representing a collection (subtree, if you'd like) of symbols, but I'm not sure. @Cheerio?

If you are right with this the I think the question of how to set something like this up in spriter remains very relevant.

[simplex]

If you are right with this the I think the question of how to set something like this up in spriter remains very relevant.

I know for sure animation symbols do have an hierarchy, based on something Ipsquiggle said: all animation symbols are nested within a dummy root symbol determined by the animation bank (the purpose of the bank being precisely to define such symbol so that different animation files can interplay with different builds, with this parent symbol being a "mark" of interoperability). I do not know if the game makes further use of this hierarchy beyond that, but it seems to me this is the case here.

Edited November 8, 2013 by simplex

[Cheerio]

Maybe it's a "root symbol", representing a collection (subtree, if you'd like) of symbols, but I'm not sure. @Cheerio?

I'll have to write a more in depth guide but in the mean time, check out one of the Spriter files for the characters.  The trick is that a symbol is actually multiple images.  That's how his face switches between the different emotions even though there is only a single face symbol.  The animation is what decides which frame is selected.  

 

The thing to realize when symbol swapping is that all the animation information comes from the target symbol, not the source symbol.  For example, if you make a new spear in Spriter to be used as a symbol swap, the only information that will be used from Spriter once you swap the symbol will be which images to use and what are their pivot points.  All the translation, scale and rotation comes from the player animations(assuming you're swapping a symbol on a character).

 

Also in regards to naming your animation 'BUILD'.  Since Spriter doesn't have an api, I can't add any export options to it like a checkbox which says 'create a build', so I get around that by using the name of the animation.  Naming your animation 'BUILD' basically changes the way the exporter works.

[Malacath]

I'll have to write a more in depth guide but in the mean time, check out one of the Spriter files for the characters.  The trick is that a symbol is actually multiple images.  That's how his face switches between the different emotions even though there is only a single face symbol.  The animation is what decides which frame is selected. 

I'm sorry but I cannot get any meaningful information from the spriter files for the characters (you mean sample_dude or wilson HD, right?)

The only structure I see is folder structure, everything else seems chaotic. I can't see how the animation knows which face image to pick and put where the face-symbol is.

Also in regards to naming your animation 'BUILD'.  Since Spriter doesn't have an api, I can't add any export options to it like a checkbox which says 'create a build', so I get around that by using the name of the animation.  Naming your animation 'BUILD' basically changes the way the exporter works.

That's why I was confused when you said "You can swap any symbol with any other symbol" since apparently I can't do that. Only those symbols compiled with that "option" of the tools is swappable from my experience, thus implying that there is a difference to a "normal" compiled file.

 

I hope I'm just stupid today and somehow I'll be enlightened tomorrow  xD

[mentalvary]

The only structure I see is folder structure, everything else seems chaotic. I can't see how the animation knows which face image to pick and put where the face-symbol is.

 

Yup, same here. I've tried replicating the scml structure for my helmet, but to no avail. An asset of an armor in the Spriter Source Assets git would already help, if only to modify for my own needs 

Edited November 8, 2013 by mentalvary

[Cheerio]

I'll try to put up an example of a swappable Spriter hat in the next couple of days which will help with the explanation and fix your problem .

[Seyph]

@Cheerio I've been meaning to ask for a while now, but why is it that the back-view of a character's head is tilted by ~3 degrees and flipped backwards? My obsessive-compulsiveness must know.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Sukoushi

[Cheerio]

@Cheerio I've been meaning to ask for a while now, but why is it that the back-view of a character's head is tilted by ~3 degrees and flipped backwards? My obsessive-compulsiveness must know.

Do you mean in Spriter or in game?

[Seyph]

Do you mean in Spriter or in game?

Both. Even if you use the sample template, I'm guessing the build.bin is set the same way as it is in Spriter right now: negative x-scale and and 3.518 degree angle.

[Cheerio]

Both. Even if you use the sample template, I'm guessing the build.bin is set the same way as it is in Spriter right now: negative x-scale and and 3.518 degree angle.

It's 3.518 degrees because my script generated the templates by placing the images at the first frame of the idle animation.  I could of generated the templates from the run animation and then the rotation would of been something else .

 

As far as his head being flipped, that's because the front face and the back face actually use the same image, it's just mirrored.  The artists do that to save memory .

 

[Seyph]

Good to know there were at least some sorts of reasons behind them. Would it be "safe" if I were to set the angle back to 0, or would that break anything during the animations?

[TheDanaAddams]

As I understand it, the character template Spriter project doesn't actually receive any animation data - just the images and pivot positions.

 

Theoretically, you could mangle the character, moving limbs over its eyes and turning its body sideways, and it would work perfectly, as long as you didn't screw with the pivots!

[Cheerio]

Dana's right.  You can translate/rotate/scale the images all you want as that's really only there to help you visualize all the pieces.

[Cheerio]

I'm sorry but I cannot get any meaningful information from the spriter files for the characters (you mean sample_dude or wilson HD, right?)

The only structure I see is folder structure, everything else seems chaotic. I can't see how the animation knows which face image to pick and put where the face-symbol is.

That's why I was confused when you said "You can swap any symbol with any other symbol" since apparently I can't do that. Only those symbols compiled with that "option" of the tools is swappable from my experience, thus implying that there is a difference to a "normal" compiled file.

 

I hope I'm just stupid today and somehow I'll be enlightened tomorrow  xD

I'll write up more details on it tomorrow but for now, here's an example of a working Spriter hat.  And you are correct, you can't currently use one Spriter file for both the hat on the ground and the hat on the player's head.  The Spriter exporter will need to be changed a little to support that.

 

http://forums.kleientertainment.com/index.php?/files/file/373-hat-example/

 

[Malacath]

I'll write up more details on it tomorrow but for now, here's an example of a working Spriter hat. And you are correct, you can't currently use one Spriter file for both the hat on the ground and the hat on the player's head. The Spriter exporter will need to be changed a little to support that.

http://forums.kleientertainment.com/index.php?/files/file/373-hat-example/

hat1.jpg

This is excellent! I'll try it asap. And hope I'll not be to stupid to understand it

[mentalvary]

I'll try to put up an example of a swappable Spriter hat in the next couple of days which will help with the explanation and fix your problem .

 

You guys are great! Already uploaded. And seems to work when I adjust it to my helmet. Just need to work out scale and pivot positioning. Thanks very much!

[Malacath]

I'll write up more details on it tomorrow but for now, here's an example of a working Spriter hat.  And you are correct, you can't currently use one Spriter file for both the hat on the ground and the hat on the player's head.  The Spriter exporter will need to be changed a little to support that.

 

http://forums.kleientertainment.com/index.php?/files/file/373-hat-example/

 

hat1.jpg

I need to understand this, sorry but I'm desperate.

It seems to me that really ALL of the structure is based on the naming of the files. I tried adding an armor with spriter and ta-da it worked though the images were to small and the wrong images showed. So my next question comes up: How are we supposed to know in which order to name the files? For my test I named them the same order as the torso images of sample_dude but that didn't seem to work for me. Then I tried, just for the sake of it, the order in which they appeared in the marble-suit atlas. As expected I had no success there either. So, how should I know the order of naming things?

Same goes of course if I wanted to add gloves or shoulder plates, which seems like a possibility now.

[Malacath]

@Cheerio Two question:

First: What I wrote in the post above this  : P

Second: Is there any workaround to the unclickable entities when compiled from Spriter. I'm currently dealing with an entity that has no clickable area whatsoever, not even a small one. And that makes it whole unhealthy to troubleshoot for what I want to do. I'm fine with it having a rectangular clickable area around the bounding box or so of that is a possiblity at all.

[Cheerio]

I need to understand this, sorry but I'm desperate.

It seems to me that really ALL of the structure is based on the naming of the files. I tried adding an armor with spriter and ta-da it worked though the images were to small and the wrong images showed. So my next question comes up: How are we supposed to know in which order to name the files? For my test I named them the same order as the torso images of sample_dude but that didn't seem to work for me. Then I tried, just for the sake of it, the order in which they appeared in the marble-suit atlas. As expected I had no success there either. So, how should I know the order of naming things?

Same goes of course if I wanted to add gloves or shoulder plates, which seems like a possibility now.

Symbols are decided by the names of the folders.  Each image inside a folder is called a frame.  Each frame has a number which in Spriter is decided by the order you drag the images from your palette on the right to your main window.  The player animations decide which frame numbers are going to show so you don't have control over that.  For the hat, frame number zero plays when the player is facing forward, frame number one when he is facing sideways and frame number two when he is facing backwards.  So if you were to recreate the hat example from scratch, you would create a new spriter project inside the hat folder and then drag the images from the palette in that order to your main spriter window.  The image names don't affect anything.

 

Once I'm done with the port, I'm probably going to see about changing the way the frame numbers are decided because it's currently a little awkward.