In general it is a 9/10 skill tree

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Reddddd said:

Ok but thats just nitpicking whatever fits that narrative, thats not cohesive to what i said at all 

No this is baffling what exactly do you mean this is nitpicking???

34 minutes ago, Reddddd said:

English isn't my first language, so I’m trying to be as clear as possible: I am talking about archetypes and scaling, not a side-by-side skill checklist.

I think there is a major misunderstanding here. I am not comparing their skills one-by-one. If I were, I’d be talking about Goose speed versus Circuit utility. I am comparing their endgame potential and roles.

When I say WX-78’s base kit is weaker in the endgame, similar to Woodie, I am pointing out a shared design trait. I am not saying "WX is as bad as Woodie." I am saying they share a role similarity: both are powerhouses early on whose skill trees aren't as "inclined" toward endgame scaling as characters like Willow or Wortox.

Direct Comparison: Comparing a Treeguard's AI to a WX-clone's AI. (I am not doing this).

Role Comparison: Comparing how the developers "inclined" their skill trees toward specific phases of the game. (This is my point)

 

If you think WX’s endgame is fundamentally "better" than Woodie's, you're missing the context of my entire argument. I am talking about developer intention. Woodie shines early; WX shines early. They both have endgame tools, but those tools aren't their defining traits.

Arguing over individual skills is pointless when I’m trying to discuss the big picture of how these characters scale. You can either address the point I’m making about their roles and potentials, or you can keep nitpicking individual skills, which isn't what this conversation is about.

 

But of course, you can keep insisting on the "you're comparing them by definition" ignoring all the other context and actual useful replies regarding what they think on wx endgame potential. Whatever makes you giggle ig.

This doesn't make sense he literally has abilities that do not shine outside of the endgame what else could the design intention for these be?

[Reddddd]

15 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

No this is baffling what exactly do you mean this is nitpicking???

This doesn't make sense he literally has abilities that do not shine outside of the endgame what else could the design intention for these be?

Huh? Wdym? It doesnt make sense who and what you're referring to?

Who has which abilities, what do they do? They shine outside of the endgame? They dont shine outside of the endgame? What???

[Mysterious box]

20 minutes ago, Reddddd said:

Huh? Wdym? It doesnt make sense who and what you're referring to?

Who has which abilities, what do they do? They shine outside of the endgame? They dont shine outside of the endgame? What???

Wx's lunar clones do not shine outside of the end game and his spin circuit doesn't reach it's full potential until the end game and the best dup target for Wx's shadow affinity exists only in the end game. You've been vague about how Wx and Woodie are similar and perhaps it's a language barrier but I so not understand what you mean when you point to their design being similar in regards to the end game when Wx has various build you can cater to improving his end game experience.

To be more clear my issue is you are implying Wx falls off in some way be it in the skill tree or outside of it in the end game. This I do not understand as the only skill that falls off is his roto mapper and even then it still has some niche uses late game. Wx is a fully customizable character so with no drawbacks to that customization so I'm just a bit perplexed.

Edited Sunday at 12:36 AM by Mysterious box

[Reddddd]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Wx's lunar clones do not shine outside of the end game and his spin circuit doesn't reach it's full potential until the end game and the best dup target for Wx's shadow affinity exists only in the end game. You've been vague about how Wx and Woodie are similar and perhaps it's a language barrier but I so not understand what you mean when you point to their design being similar in regards to the end game when Wx has various build you can cater to improving his end game experience.

To be more clear my issue is you are implying Wx falls off in some way be it in the skill tree or outside of it in the end game. This I do not understand as the only skill that falls off is his roto mapper and even then it still has some niche uses late game. Wx is a fully customizable character so with no drawbacks to that customization so I'm just a bit perplexed.

I appreciate you clarifying your stance. I think I see where the confusion is. You are looking at when a tool is unlocked, while I am looking at the character's relative power spike throughout the game.

To be clear, WX-78 is factually dominant in the early and mid-game. His circuits allow him to trivialize light, speed, and temperature almost immediately, giving him a massive advantage over the environment when other survivors are still struggling. By the time you reach the endgame, he is still very strong, but he becomes more "normal" compared to the rest of the cast. While the Shadow Maul and Lunar clones are great, they bring his DPS and utility closer to the level of other survivors rather than keeping him as the outlier he was at the start.

This is why I mentioned Woodie. If we define a character as "endgame-oriented" just because they can clear endgame content, then Woodie would be one of the strongest endgame characters in the game. His Treeguard Idols are legitimate endgame tools that can cheese bosses and provide massive DPS. However, most people still view Woodie as an early-game powerhouse because his transformations define that phase so heavily. I see WX in a similar light: he is a fully customizable, powerful character, but his most meaningful impact happens when he is bypassing early-game challenges.

In the endgame, WX is versatile, but his combat tools are comparable to what other survivors can achieve with high-tier gear. For example, the spin-circuit is excellent for AoE and shines with the Shadow Maul, but it doesn't fundamentally change the endgame meta the same way his speed and light circuits change the early-game meta. (Or even an normal opulent axe/ pick/axe damage against small hordes early game/minions boss)

I’m not saying WX is weak or that his endgame skills don't exist; I’m saying his design is front-loaded. He gives you incredible power right away, and his endgame skills feel more like lateral options to keep him viable rather than a second, massive power spike. I hope this clarifies the distinction I’m making between a character having "endgame potential" (which most characters have) and their kit being "inclined" toward a specific phase of the game. (Which all characters have it differently, in this case, wx and woodie falls under the beginner friendly survivor, while wx is a *tad* harder to learn but pays off basically permanently when you learn his circuits...)

[Mysterious box]

38 minutes ago, Reddddd said:

I appreciate you clarifying your stance. I think I see where the confusion is. You are looking at when a tool is unlocked, while I am looking at the character's relative power spike throughout the game.

To be clear, WX-78 is factually dominant in the early and mid-game. His circuits allow him to trivialize light, speed, and temperature almost immediately, giving him a massive advantage over the environment when other survivors are still struggling. By the time you reach the endgame, he is still very strong, but he becomes more "normal" compared to the rest of the cast. While the Shadow Maul and Lunar clones are great, they bring his DPS and utility closer to the level of other survivors rather than keeping him as the outlier he was at the start.

This is why I mentioned Woodie. If we define a character as "endgame-oriented" just because they can clear endgame content, then Woodie would be one of the strongest endgame characters in the game. His Treeguard Idols are legitimate endgame tools that can cheese bosses and provide massive DPS. However, most people still view Woodie as an early-game powerhouse because his transformations define that phase so heavily. I see WX in a similar light: he is a fully customizable, powerful character, but his most meaningful impact happens when he is bypassing early-game challenges.

In the endgame, WX is versatile, but his combat tools are comparable to what other survivors can achieve with high-tier gear. For example, the spin-circuit is excellent for AoE and shines with the Shadow Maul, but it doesn't fundamentally change the endgame meta the same way his speed and light circuits change the early-game meta. (Or even an normal opulent axe/ pick/axe damage against small hordes early game/minions boss)

I’m not saying WX is weak or that his endgame skills don't exist; I’m saying his design is front-loaded. He gives you incredible power right away, and his endgame skills feel more like lateral options to keep him viable rather than a second, massive power spike. I hope this clarifies the distinction I’m making between a character having "endgame potential" (which most characters have) and their kit being "inclined" toward a specific phase of the game. (Which all characters have it differently, in this case, wx and woodie falls under the beginner friendly survivor, while wx is a *tad* harder to learn but pays off basically permanently when you learn his circuits...)

I'm still not sure if get where you are coming from as there isn't really a character who gets a big endgame boost via their skill tree outside of maybe Wortox the rest get boosts on par with Wx. Woodie in particular falls off because his abilities range from powercrept to useless once rifts open

[ZeRoboButler]

5 hours ago, Reddddd said:

I appreciate you clarifying your stance. I think I see where the confusion is. You are looking at when a tool is unlocked, while I am looking at the character's relative power spike throughout the game.

To be clear, WX-78 is factually dominant in the early and mid-game. His circuits allow him to trivialize light, speed, and temperature almost immediately, giving him a massive advantage over the environment when other survivors are still struggling. By the time you reach the endgame, he is still very strong, but he becomes more "normal" compared to the rest of the cast. While the Shadow Maul and Lunar clones are great, they bring his DPS and utility closer to the level of other survivors rather than keeping him as the outlier he was at the start.

This is why I mentioned Woodie. If we define a character as "endgame-oriented" just because they can clear endgame content, then Woodie would be one of the strongest endgame characters in the game. His Treeguard Idols are legitimate endgame tools that can cheese bosses and provide massive DPS. However, most people still view Woodie as an early-game powerhouse because his transformations define that phase so heavily. I see WX in a similar light: he is a fully customizable, powerful character, but his most meaningful impact happens when he is bypassing early-game challenges.

In the endgame, WX is versatile, but his combat tools are comparable to what other survivors can achieve with high-tier gear. For example, the spin-circuit is excellent for AoE and shines with the Shadow Maul, but it doesn't fundamentally change the endgame meta the same way his speed and light circuits change the early-game meta. (Or even an normal opulent axe/ pick/axe damage against small hordes early game/minions boss)

I’m not saying WX is weak or that his endgame skills don't exist; I’m saying his design is front-loaded. He gives you incredible power right away, and his endgame skills feel more like lateral options to keep him viable rather than a second, massive power spike. I hope this clarifies the distinction I’m making between a character having "endgame potential" (which most characters have) and their kit being "inclined" toward a specific phase of the game. (Which all characters have it differently, in this case, wx and woodie falls under the beginner friendly survivor, while wx is a *tad* harder to learn but pays off basically permanently when you learn his circuits...)

I think I kinda understand, I used to play a lot of Wx way back when, before the circuits were added. After the circuits I gravitated towards other characters strangely enough.

But... what I did notice was that I felt like my progress with Wx felt less satisfying in comparison to other characters. It's hard to pinpoint why, it could be the affinities feeling less important or perhaps the instant gratification based nature of Wx now. You just do everything... so dang fast now, like almost to the point of feeling like it's easy mode. spoilage meaning nothing, constant speed, regening health and sanity.

I had to play warly for a bit to feel some what normal again lol, It felt like it did something to my head and I needed to snap out of it. It was a bizarre experience to look back upon after all is said and done. I love this evil robot, but I need to take it in doses, felt like I needed a break from it after the fact and I have never had that with a character before.

[Reddddd]

9 hours ago, ZeRoboButler said:

I think I kinda understand, I used to play a lot of Wx way back when, before the circuits were added. After the circuits I gravitated towards other characters strangely enough.

But... what I did notice was that I felt like my progress with Wx felt less satisfying in comparison to other characters. It's hard to pinpoint why, it could be the affinities feeling less important or perhaps the instant gratification based nature of Wx now. You just do everything... so dang fast now, like almost to the point of feeling like it's easy mode. spoilage meaning nothing, constant speed, regening health and sanity.

I had to play warly for a bit to feel some what normal again lol, It felt like it did something to my head and I needed to snap out of it. It was a bizarre experience to look back upon after all is said and done. I love this evil robot, but I need to take it in doses, felt like I needed a break from it after the fact and I have never had that with a character before.

Yeah i felt the same way, not a negative thing at all, but if you're experienced wx just ruins the whole surviving experience ( ´_ゝ`) when i played woodie/winona/wicker again i felt baffled on how hard dst can be for other survivors even when they also have good skills lol

[Dingle]

14 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I'm still not sure if get where you are coming from as there isn't really a character who gets a big endgame boost via their skill tree outside of maybe Wortox the rest get boosts on par with Wx. Woodie in particular falls off because his abilities range from powercrept to useless once rifts open

Willow (though you get it early game once you unlock it once).

Winona. Immensely, after a celestial kill.

Wigfrid with moonstorms.

I might be forgetting some.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Dingle said:

Willow (though you get it early game once you unlock it once).

Winona. Immensely, after a celestial kill.

Wigfrid with moonstorms.

I might be forgetting some.

Willow wouldn't count based on what they've been saying because it isn't a big boost that starts from the end game. I'd even hesitate to say Wigfrid she does get a boost but is it on par with the Maul spin cycle or lunar clones becoming able to become planar entities via possessions from end game lunar spirits and being geared with things like crowns giving access to high damage not lowered via the 50% damage scaling? Winona is a fair case but I feel like that leans more so on her being a minion character of sorts.

[Dingle]

2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Willow wouldn't count based on what they've been saying because it isn't a big boost that starts from the end game. I'd even hesitate to say Wigfrid she does get a boost but is it on par with the Maul spin cycle or lunar clones becoming able to become planar entities via possessions from end game lunar spirits and being geared with things like crowns giving access to high damage not lowered via the 50% damage scaling? Winona is a fair case but I feel like that leans more so on her being a minion character of sorts.

I haven't played Wigfrid in awhile. I was ultimately disappointed with her skill tree. I remember the spear upgrade being a massive power increase, but it also comes really close to when she also gets the celestial crown, another giant increase for her. But not one skill tree related, so I could be conflating them.

My understanding is Wurt gets a big post rift increase. I can't say for sure though, as she is one of the only two characters I don't play much.

Wormwood gets a big increase for brightshade swords, but I don't know the details there either. I don't play him much either, though I have more than Wurt.

[Mysterious box]

22 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I haven't played Wigfrid in awhile. I was ultimately disappointed with her skill tree. I remember the spear upgrade being a massive power increase, but it also comes really close to when she also gets the celestial crown, another giant increase for her. But not one skill tree related, so I could be conflating them.

She does but Wx gets a big boost in the same way via his lunar clones interacting with the crown and the Maul spin cycle.

23 minutes ago, Dingle said:

My understanding is Wurt gets a big post rift increase. I can't say for sure though, as she is one of the only two characters I don't play much.

She doesn't as she gets her powers capped the moment she defeats nightmare werepig as that lets her use the shadow staff early game.

As for the lunar side she only gets the staff post rift but it doesn't boost her dps like the shadow side.

 

25 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Wormwood gets a big increase for brightshade swords, but I don't know the details there either. I don't play him much either, though I have more than Wurt.

He gets a increase but it's definitely not massive it just gives the brightshade sword a chance to spawn a lunar vine to attack like the thulecite club or more accurately Walter's husk rounds. It's at a 20% rate and does 85 damage.

Some characters do get buffs post rift it's just that Wx's are generally stronger than most both in terms of combat and non combat abilities which is why this whole conversation didn't make sense to me when it's being said he somehow is in a similar position to Woodie design wise.

[MrsBoris]

Damn this topic got hot to bad i dont have time to read allat