The theming for the new shadow affinity is even worse than before.

[Tarnishedmax]

The old shadow affinity just needed some extra polish to properly sell the "shadow infused automaton" thing, we have seen automatons get corrupted by shadows before, its not a new thing and i dont understand how plugging in a shadow atrium wouldn't give them some shadowy powers, drones feel too out of nowhere and "forced" i guess? like they are a robot so they MUST have drones instead of thinking logically, what part of the drones scream "shadow affinity" besides the shadow vfx around them? what does Charlie have to do with drones, what is the logic behind inserting certain shadows materials into your robotic system and suddenly gaining the ability to craft specific drones? None of it makes sense and it genuinely makes me really sad seeing Klei give up in making Wx some kind of corrupted shadow automaton.

Both of these drones look like any regular old machine without the shadowy effect around them, nothing in this affinity screams "Im shadow aligned, i make deals with the shadow queen herself and im plugging the heart of all evil in my system" besides the old leftovers like shadow mimics or tendrils.

These drones feel like they should have been a thing in the "Drones" section of the tree, not locked behind an alignment.

[YouKnowWho142]

I’m really glad everyone is talking about this, this is my biggest gripe with the new shadow affinity and that’s as someone who thinks they nerfed shadow affinity way too hard

[doritosdamafia]

i was surprised by the change, to me the theme of the shadow affinity was too divided among the community, some wanted change other liked the shadow hands and only wanted something more for the possessed atrium besides being able to use mimics

Edited Sunday at 10:06 PM by doritosdamafia

[Ugur01]

This definitely needs more visibility. Unlike the previous iteration, the new design has absolutely nothing to do with the shadow theme. Drones feel completely out of place compared to other shadow-related abilities. Next to the Boulderbough branches emerging from the ground or the Mimics coming out of the chassis, the drones feel entirely disconnected. I’m deeply disappointed that they made this change; the shadow hands that used to crawl on the ground and gather items were incredibly cool.

Here is a video showcasing how they looked in the previous version:

 

 

Edited Sunday at 11:22 PM by Ugur01

[Tarnishedmax]

1 hour ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

I’m really glad everyone is talking about this, this is my biggest gripe with the new shadow affinity and that’s as someone who thinks they nerfed shadow affinity way too hard

Dont even get me started on how insane the nerfs are, it borderline makes this affinity useless pre rifts, but beyond how bad it feels to use this affinity currently the theming is also just bad now, old shadow affinity reminded of these guys and now it kinda just, doesnt do anything for me

 

Edited Sunday at 11:29 PM by Tarnishedmax

[Ugur01]

21 minutes ago, Ugur01 said:

This definitely needs more visibility. Unlike the previous iteration, the new design has absolutely nothing to do with the shadow theme. Drones feel completely out of place compared to other shadow-related abilities. Next to the Boulderbough branches emerging from the ground or the Mimics coming out of the chassis, the drones feel entirely disconnected. I’m deeply disappointed that they made this change; the shadow hands that used to crawl on the ground and gather items were incredibly cool.

Here is a video showcasing how they looked in the previous version:

I should also mention that the old version looked much cleaner. You didn't have 4 drones constantly cluttering the screen; they only appeared when you were gathering items or applying Vex to targets.

[NotGabriel]

Literally all they had to do was make the VFX of the shadow powers we had feel more in tune to WX. They had the perfect starting point with the heart ventricles wrapping around the chassis. 
the transition to drones ruined the shadow affinity on both a gameplay and thematic level. I’m incredibly disappointed in the direction the affinity went as a day 1 shadow WX appreciator.

[YouKnowWho142]

Just now, NotGabriel said:

Literally all they had to do was make the VFX of the shadow powers we had feel more in tune to WX. They had the perfect starting point with the heart ventricles wrapping around the chassis. 
the transition to drones ruined the shadow affinity on both a gameplay and thematic level. I’m incredibly disappointed in the direction the affinity went as a day 1 shadow WX appreciator.

Exactly this. It felt like they tried fixing a problem that didn’t really exist when all shadow needed was better visuals and some qol. I think they really missed the mark on this one

[NotGabriel]

Just now, YouKnowWho142 said:

Exactly this. It felt like they tried fixing a problem that didn’t really exist when all shadow needed was better visuals and some qol. I think they really missed the mark on this one

Hopefully it’s not too late for them to go back to the previous version. I really think there’s no way I’m enjoying it otherwise which sucks because I definitely don’t want to run lunar.

[doritosdamafia]

7 minutes ago, NotGabriel said:

Hopefully it’s not too late for them to go back to the previous version. I really think there’s no way I’m enjoying it otherwise which sucks because I definitely don’t want to run lunar.

just do like me and some others that decided to run without a affinity

[NotGabriel]

4 minutes ago, doritosdamafia said:

just do like me and some others that decided to run without a affinity

Honestly?? It’s getting there because would I rather use tedious and weak drones or take one of the many impactful single skills that my current build doesn’t quite have room for

[OrangeNibble]

I hope they revert to the old affinity. I also liked it a lot more.

One of the things that was better was there was a clear simple progression: nightmare fuel -> shadow atrium -> possessed shadow atrium.

Separating into two systems (fuel and hearts) is confusing, and socketing fuel feels weird (when not the weakest version of the progression).

You also had backup chassises be usable for auto-collection, which was really nice.  

Edited yesterday at 12:16 AM by OrangeNibble

[GamePlayer42]

47 minutes ago, Tarnishedmax said:

old shadow affinity reminded of these guys and now it kinda just, doesnt do anything for me

 

i dont really see it tbh, the old affinity was just black shadows and didnt really do anything atleast for me personally, but i think if current drones were better at their function, and designed along these lines then the theming would probably be a moot point. i feel like atleast with the drones, they make sense for a character like wx and it feels like a collaboration of wx's mechanical side aswell as the darkness the atrium/shadow queen offers. i think if they adress the targetting issues that people have, aswell as the size i think it would work well. its nice how the lunar affinity is chassis-focussed and the shadow is drone-focussed

Edited yesterday at 12:19 AM by GamePlayer42
clarifying points

[doritosdamafia]

6 minutes ago, NotGabriel said:

Honestly?? It’s getting there because would I rather use tedious and weak drones or take one of the many impactful single skills that my current build doesn’t quite have room for

the only reason i see to use the lunar for now are if i want to rush ruins, because the 10% more damage maybe will help, but even for that it hard to justify getting this skill

[OrangeNibble]

5 minutes ago, GamePlayer42 said:

i dont really see it tbh, the old affinity was just black shadows and didnt really do anything atleast for me personally, but i think if current drones were better at their function, and designed along these lines then the theming would probably be a moot point. i feel like the drones make sense for a character like wx and they deserve those sick ass drones instead of lame shadows whipping their enemies imo

The old visual design was better i.m.o. WX having shadow magic infused into their body made a lot of sense (reminds me of ferngully - where a spirit possesses a machine), and the hand animation fit into the rest of don't starve together, i.m.o. The drones are strange.

And the old mechanic design was better: simple progression, better usability, more coherent.

*And* the old balance was better.

Edited yesterday at 12:19 AM by OrangeNibble

[doritosdamafia]

1 hour ago, GamePlayer42 said:

i dont really see it tbh, the old affinity was just black shadows and didnt really do anything atleast for me personally, but i think if current drones were better at their function, and designed along these lines then the theming would probably be a moot point. i feel like the drones make sense for a character like wx and they deserve those sick ass drones instead of lame shadows whipping their enemies imo

if the drones where just a vfx change i would agree, but the need to make them and the fact the debuff one practically don't work make it gain a bad reputation

Edited yesterday at 01:38 AM by doritosdamafia

[GamePlayer42]

2 minutes ago, doritosdamafia said:

if the drones where just a vfx change i would agree, but the need to make them and the fact the debuff one practically don't works make it gain a bad reputation

couldnt agree more

[OrangeNibble]

The shadow hand of the old affinity being a shadow drone (or maybe a ground-based shadow robot) that detaches from WX's body then collects items and returns would be cool. Simply changing that visual seems like it would satisfy everyone...

The shadow Vex could similarly be replaced with shadow lightning, or other visuals.

Edited yesterday at 12:29 AM by OrangeNibble

[Mysterious box]

Personally I prefer the drones design wise it's more fitting thematically they just need to make the fact they are powered by shadow energies more pronounced.

[OrangeNibble]

8 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Personally I prefer the drones design wise it's more fitting thematically they just need to make the fact they are powered by shadow energies more pronounced.

Really? How does socketing a dark heart into your body unlocking crafting drones work?

I think you could do a whole drone-based affinity. I think it would be 100% more boring than the original shadow affinity.  

The current shadow affinity is a worst-of-both worlds, in that it keeps socketing things into your body, and randomly links that to crafting and enabling drones.

It feels like what it is: a reactionary design change.

If they just tuned up the *visuals* of the old affinity to be drone based, would you be happy?

 

 

I think people like the idea of being able to consume nightmare fuel.

We are almost at a great shadow affinity design, where WX can:

- socket hearts into himself (shadow atrium -> possessed shadow atrium)

- the original nice low friction mechanics

- consume nightmare fuel and pure horror for temporary buffs (e.g. overcharging themselves to slightly buff their circuits, etc...)

- the visuals are themed well (e.g., shadowy drones detach from the WX's body/shadow)

Edited yesterday at 12:41 AM by OrangeNibble

[Mysterious box]

Just now, OrangeNibble said:

Really? How does socketing a dark heart into your body unlocking crafting drones work?

I think you could do a whole drone-based affinity. I think it would be 100% more boring than the original shadow affinity.  

The current shadow affinity is a worst-of-both worlds, in that it keeps socketing things into your body and randomly links that to crafting and enabling drones

Dark powers gained through using dark items or pacts rarely if ever manifested in wow we have random shadow powers unrelated to the character. They manifested in ways that directly related to the character. In Wx's case him building drones powered by shadow energy from the object he placed inside him just makes far more sense.

[GamePlayer42]

6 minutes ago, OrangeNibble said:

Really? How does socketing a dark heart into your body unlocking crafting drones work?

I think you could do a whole drone-based affinity. I think it would be 100% more boring than the original shadow affinity.  

The current shadow affinity is a worst-of-both worlds, in that it keeps socketing things into your body, and randomly links that to crafting and enabling drones.

It feels like what it is: a reactionary design change.

If they just tuned up the *visuals* of the old affinity to be drone based, would you be happy?

at the end of the day orange, art is subjective and i think there will always be fans of either. the old affinity was far too on the nose design wise, atleast for me and i like the connection given to wx and their drones

[OrangeNibble]

9 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Dark powers gained through using dark items or pacts rarely if ever manifested in wow we have random shadow powers unrelated to the character. They manifested in ways that directly related to the character. In Wx's case him building drones powered by shadow energy from the object he placed inside him just makes far more sense.

Dark items like 99% manifest as shadowy powers that originate from the characters body... E.g., Neil Gaiman's Sandman were Dream's artifacts are stolen by a human, the human gains unnatural luck. This 'unnatural' luck / vitality is about the most standard canonical representation of gaining forbidden power from an artifact. It is 100% focused in the person's body / aura.

You are confusing that with making a pact. Making a pact with a dark entity will often unlock forbidden knowledge, but that pact is exactly what the affinity skill represents!  

If WX's skill tree unlocked him being able to craft shadow drones that would make sense. The skill tree unlocking socketing which unlocks crafting is bizarre. It is an unnecessary level of indirection.

Edited yesterday at 12:50 AM by OrangeNibble

[Mysterious box]

8 minutes ago, OrangeNibble said:

Dark items like 99% manifest as shadowy powers that originate from the characters body... E.g., sandman were Dream's magic is stolen by a human, the human gains unnatural luck. This 'unnatural' luck / vitality is about the most standard canonical representation of gaining forbidden power from an artifact. It is 100% focused in the person's body / aura.

Stealing/using some dark power basically never unlock 'crafting.' Like what?

You are confusing that with making a pact. Making a pact with a dark entity will often unlock forbidden knowledge, but that pact is exactly what the affinity skill represents!  

If WX's skill tree unlocked him being able to craft shadow drones that would make sense. The skill tree unlocking socketing which unlocks crafting is bizarre. It is an unnecessary level of indirection.

I'm not talking about lore from outside of dst I'm talking about how these abilities manifested on other characters. Willow didn't start summoning shadow hands she became able to shoot fire(admittly still silly to me). Wormwood didn't start shooting energy spears he instead created new plant creatures and armor. Some people are claiming it made sense for Wx to just get shadowy magic unrelated to technology but how exactly? How does Wx randomly getting shadowy powers unrelated to any of his previous fuction fit more than him using the shadow plugins to become able to craft and harness these shadow drones?

Edited yesterday at 12:55 AM by Mysterious box

[Tired_Awaii]

To me the biggest disconnect seems to be the fact that the drones are crafted instead of things that just pop out of WX. You can view the act of crafting the drones as WX manipulating shadows into new contraptions which I think works well enough if you view it that way, but if the idea is supposed to be that WX is being possessed/fueled by shadow magic then that extra crafting step somewhat takes away from that. The drones themselves I think work well as a visual upgrade to what we had before its just that also came with some caveats which need tweaking.