Initial suggestions after a bit of fooling around

[Fishgirl]

I dont think drones work for this. I dont understand the logic behind slotting something into myself and then unlocking drones... and then nothing impactful happening to me. I think this is especially prevalent with nightmare fuel and horror, since it doesn't HAVE any additional side effect, but I don't like the idea in general. It feels clunky for a crafting recipe tied to whats inside me, rather than a self-buff. i do like the fuel/horror eating idea though! I hope thats utilized more rather than what we have rn. i'm not sure if im wording this all correctly, but i hope my idea gets across.

[Baark0]

I agree it does feel a bit odd, I really liked the idea of augmenting yourself with shadow materials so its a shame that seems to be lost. The damage buff being weaker is also disappointing, as I was quite looking forward to finally having access to a damage buff for WX. 

I do quite like the auto-grabbers though, it seems like a lot of fun having a small army of drones picking stuff up for you.

[Jussatoon]

Is this perhaps another case of a character having something thematically reworked at the expense of being weaker/less useful?

[YouKnowWho142]

I'm not going to point fingers at the community or anything like that, but this was their attempt to listen to community criticism about shadow affinity not being robotic enough. The result is kind of on the community on this one, people criticized the actual gameplay effects just as much as the visual appearance and now that both align more with WX being a robot rather than a robot merging with shadows this is just what we get.

I've always been saying that shadow affinity should've focused on staying simple and approachable for people who didn't want to put up with lunar affinity, this is kind of the opposite of that now.

[Jussatoon]

Just now, YouKnowWho142 said:

I'm not going to point fingers at the community or anything like that

Why not? Isn't that objectively what should be happening?

[Fishgirl]

3 minutes ago, Jussatoon said:

Is this perhaps another case of a character having something thematically reworked at the expense of being weaker/less useful?

i don't care as much about the power and more about how Weird it is to use in general. it makes less sense than before

Edited Saturday at 01:06 AM by Fishgirl

[YouKnowWho142]

Just now, Jussatoon said:

Why not? Isn't that objectively what should be happening?

because i dont want to be flamed for saying it, everyone knows it's true

[Tired_Awaii]

This seems like something that could be solved if the drones weren't a craftable thing and was instead just the drones coming to live from WX's body due to the nightmare fuel within their body. Plus the extra step of needing to make the drones is a bit weird since now that means the fuel doesn't do anything by itself besides opening up the ability to use nightmare fuel/pure horror on yourself to give perma charge for awhile.

[Fishgirl]

1 minute ago, Tired_Awaii said:

This seems like something that could be solved if the drones weren't a craftable thing and was instead just the drones coming to live from WX's body due to the nightmare fuel within their body. Plus the extra step of needing to make the drones is a bit weird since now that means the fuel doesn't do anything by itself besides opening up the ability to use nightmare fuel/pure horror on yourself to give perma charge for awhile.

i wouldnt mind this if vicky got buffed a bit to match what it was like before, and auto grabbers being able to work offscreen like it was before aswell

[Eclipsed Nox]

54 minutes ago, Fishgirl said:

No creo que los drones funcionen para esto. No entiendo la lógica detrás de meter algo en mí y luego desbloquear drones... y luego no me sucede nada impactante. Creo que esto prevalece especialmente con el combustible de pesadilla y el horror, ya que no TIENE ningún efecto secundario adicional, pero no me gusta la idea en general. Se siente torpe para una receta de elaboración ligada a lo que hay dentro de mí, en lugar de una tontería. ¡Aunque me gusta la idea de comer combustible/horror! Espero que se haya utilizado más que lo que tenemos. No estoy seguro de si estoy redactando todo esto correctamente, pero espero que mi idea se transmita.

Personally, couldn't they just have the drones attack instead of turning Warbis mechanics into drones?

[NotGabriel]

It also just feels like we had the wool pulled over our eyes. Klei LITERALLY said the changes to shadow would be aesthetic and the gameplay would be the same and then turns around and changes the gameplay. Feels pretty bad man.

[Eclipsed Nox]

At this point, wouldn't it be better to unify the two skill trees into just one, like Wormwood? I mean, WX-78 keeps talking about how much he loves the moon. Wouldn't it be better if he only had lunar affinity and these new drones were simply added as part of the other drones, with an upgrade more focused on the number of active drones per area?

[YouKnowWho142]

1 minute ago, Eclipsed Nox said:

At this point, wouldn't it be better to unify the two skill trees into just one, like Wormwood? I mean, WX-78 keeps talking about how much he loves the moon. Wouldn't it be better if he only had lunar affinity and these new drones were simply added as part of the other drones, with an upgrade more focused on the number of active drones per area?

Wormwood, Maxwell, and Winona should be the only exceptions to the rule due to their backgrounds. WX does love the moon and would probably be their canonical choice, but it makes sense to allow them to choose shadow as well

[OrangeNibble]

2 hours ago, Fishgirl said:

I dont think drones work for this. I dont understand the logic behind slotting something into myself and then unlocking drones... and then nothing impactful happening to me. I think this is especially prevalent with nightmare fuel and horror, since it doesn't HAVE any additional side effect, but I don't like the idea in general. It feels clunky for a crafting recipe tied to whats inside me, rather than a self-buff. i do like the fuel/horror eating idea though! I hope thats utilized more rather than what we have rn. i'm not sure if im wording this all correctly, but i hope my idea gets across.

100% It is really weird...

Maybe if they were temporary shadow creature summons that WX rips out of his chassis, but crafting them makes 0 sense.

[doritosdamafia]

14 minutes ago, OrangeNibble said:

100% It is really weird...

Maybe if they were temporary shadow creature summons that WX rips out of his chassis, but crafting them makes 0 sense.

and the worst part, the debuff drone break after scanning for too much time and if you try to kite they stop the scan

[Snapchrap]

I haven't tested anything, but would an improvement being to give wx a smaller, % damage increase, something like 10%? Cuz if the drones are weak and really dont help, maybe giving wx SOME personal affect might.help alleviate the problem when the two stack

[doritosdamafia]

3 minutes ago, Snapchrap said:

I haven't tested anything, but would an improvement being to give wx a smaller, % damage increase, something like 10%? Cuz if the drones are weak and really dont help, maybe giving wx SOME personal affect might.help alleviate the problem when the two stack

wx before gained a 25% damage boots with a shadow atrium, so defeating the shadow pieces was enough to get it, now even with a possessed atrium you can't get that and it is less reliable because the drone stop working very easy

[OrangeNibble]

In short, worse in every way: worse mechanics, worse balance, AND worse theming / immersion. Hopefully they switch it up quite a bit.

[-Nick-]

14 minutes ago, OrangeNibble said:

In short, worse in every way: worse mechanics, worse balance, AND worse theming / immersion. Hopefully they switch it up quite a bit.

Nah I disagree with you here. The theming is WAY better. Just how it works rn sucks.

[OrangeNibble]

1 hour ago, -Nick- said:

Nah I disagree with you here. The theming is WAY better. Just how it works rn sucks.

How? How does inserting shadow fuel into your chassis unlocking being able to craft drones that randomly disappear when you switch bodies make any sense?! It's just nonsense. It is just really really not cohesive. 

The idea of shadow drones *could* make sense. The current shadow drones make zero sense. At least your robot body being infused with shadow essence made sense. 

Edited Saturday at 05:35 AM by OrangeNibble

[hhhhddh]

50 minutes ago, -Nick- said:

Nah I disagree with you here. The theming is WAY better. Just how it works rn sucks.

Agreed. I think they should just be shadow drones which come out from WX's body, and work the same way before, just in a drone shape. And I think implant Atrium should give 20% dmg boost, and Possessed Atrium should make the boost have an effect on for planar dmg.

[-Nick-]

44 minutes ago, OrangeNibble said:

How? How does inserting shadow fuel into your chassis unlocking being able to craft drones that randomly disappear when you switch bodies make any sense?! It's just nonsense. It is just really really not cohesive. 

The idea of shadow drones *could* make sense. The current shadow drones make zero sense. At least your robot body being infused with shadow essence made sense. 

i just said "how it works rn sucks" 
I agree with acquiring drones is weird. The drones themselves perfectly fit though.

Edited Saturday at 05:54 AM by -Nick-

[OrangeNibble]

1 hour ago, -Nick- said:

i just said "how it works rn sucks" 
I agree with acquiring drones is weird. The drones themselves perfectly fit though.

 

Sure, drones are okay... but the whole mechanic of the skill is just really bad. I'd far rather have something that makes sense... The old version was way way better. (not saying that drones couldn't be made good, but I think it needs a big rework...)

[Deurus]

4 hours ago, -Nick- said:

Nah I disagree with you here. The theming is WAY better. Just how it works rn sucks.

I like the Idea of Shadow align been the "Automatize everthing", yes, the picking Drones need a lot of better interactions like those:

but they're on right way.

And The Shadow atrium Should be just a Simple Damage increase and the Possesed Shadow atrium just +planar Damage. Lets keep it simple and easy to players . So we can have the Lunar Align  as the high investing but more rewarding choice.

 

[Jakepeng99]

5 hours ago, OrangeNibble said:

In short, worse in every way: worse mechanics, worse balance, AND worse theming / immersion. Hopefully they switch it up quite a bit.

The theming is really nice. It never made sense for me that stuff just magically proofed from their body like Maxwell.

8 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

I'm not going to point fingers at the community or anything like that, but this was their attempt to listen to community criticism about shadow affinity not being robotic enough. The result is kind of on the community on this one, people criticized the actual gameplay effects just as much as the visual appearance and now that both align more with WX being a robot rather than a robot merging with shadows this is just what we get.

I've always been saying that shadow affinity should've focused on staying simple and approachable for people who didn't want to put up with lunar affinity, this is kind of the opposite of that now.

Don’t understand why you blame the community. People did complain about it not being robotic but the end of the day it’s Kleis choice what they implement anyway.