Inhabited Machine III is useless

[Weevious]

As it stands currently, I think the Inhabited Machine III perk is the worst skill in the entire skill tree and it's not particularly close.

To start, Inhabited Machine III has the effect of "Reviving with a Backup Chassis fully restores your health." WX-78 has 100 maximum health, and revives at 50 health without the perk. That is one entire insight point for a 50 health gain on revival. Your energy is entirely depleted when you resurrect from a backup, so you won't get more health if you had a lot of hardy circuits plugged in. This extra 50 health would be useful if you are wearing armor, but most deaths in combat are the result of your armour breaking. The intent with this perk is very clear to me, Inhabited Machine II makes you drop a Backup Chassis on death, this perk is supposed to make it more viable to immediately respawn at your recently deceased body. Unfortunately it simply does not, if you were going to be torn to shreds while respawning at 50 health, you're PROBABLY still going to be torn to shreds at 100 health. 

I propose a very simple solution for Inhabited Machine III. You respawn at full health AND instead of draining ALL of your charges on revival it only drains 3 of them. If you were to revive on your recently deceased body some of your Hardy Circuits would be charged, giving you a larger heal than usual. It also lets you to have a Super-Acceleration Circuit AND Super-Illumination Circuit immediately charged, allowing you to retreat more efficiently and preventing an immediate death to darkness the moment you respawn (though you really shouldn't be running out of torch crafting ingredients). There's also less time needed for your systems to be fully restored, you'll be able to get back into a fight faster and with less resources expended on electric milk and healing items. A Don't Starve Together pro would not need this skill, as they wouldn't die in the first place, but a more casual player who happens to die frequently might end up actually taking this skill and enjoying it. Currently it's just not worth the skill point even if you die as often as humanly- er, robotly possible.

[Kvetevk]

I would say it's op as of right now, with this skill, you won't need to heal at all, if you stay away from danger while your batteries are recharging (210 seconds with charging skill).

I think it would be better if the whole reviving mechanic could be reworked, it could still revive but for example: you need to activate the body and it will slowly drain energy and wx could revive only on activate chassis, machine III could then either slow down or stop the energy loss.

But currently it isn't a bad or good skill, it just removes the need to heal after revive.

[ZeRoboButler]

I'm still of the opinion that the skill's focused on revival be changed to something else entirely, I don't think perks based upon revival are as good as more active perks that change more than just how a player responds to death. 

It made sense for wendy with her connection with the dead but otherwise, I really do think that the revive is just taking the place of something more interesting or appealing for wx while also hindering the chasiss concept of power budget.

But yes, a perk for 50 additional hp does not seem that great, then again neither does sacrificing one of your chassis for a rez.

[Jakepeng99]

3 hours ago, Weevious said:

As it stands currently, I think the Inhabited Machine III perk is the worst skill in the entire skill tree and it's not particularly close.

To start, Inhabited Machine III has the effect of "Reviving with a Backup Chassis fully restores your health." WX-78 has 100 maximum health, and revives at 50 health without the perk. That is one entire insight point for a 50 health gain on revival. Your energy is entirely depleted when you resurrect from a backup, so you won't get more health if you had a lot of hardy circuits plugged in. This extra 50 health would be useful if you are wearing armor, but most deaths in combat are the result of your armour breaking. The intent with this perk is very clear to me, Inhabited Machine II makes you drop a Backup Chassis on death, this perk is supposed to make it more viable to immediately respawn at your recently deceased body. Unfortunately it simply does not, if you were going to be torn to shreds while respawning at 50 health, you're PROBABLY still going to be torn to shreds at 100 health. 

I propose a very simple solution for Inhabited Machine III. You respawn at full health AND instead of draining ALL of your charges on revival it only drains 3 of them. If you were to revive on your recently deceased body some of your Hardy Circuits would be charged, giving you a larger heal than usual. It also lets you to have a Super-Acceleration Circuit AND Super-Illumination Circuit immediately charged, allowing you to retreat more efficiently and preventing an immediate death to darkness the moment you respawn (though you really shouldn't be running out of torch crafting ingredients). There's also less time needed for your systems to be fully restored, you'll be able to get back into a fight faster and with less resources expended on electric milk and healing items. A Don't Starve Together pro would not need this skill, as they wouldn't die in the first place, but a more casual player who happens to die frequently might end up actually taking this skill and enjoying it. Currently it's just not worth the skill point even if you die as often as humanly- er, robotly possible.

I instead suggest that inhibited machine 2 will make you still lose durability on circuits inside Yiu when you die. But inhibited machine 3 makes it that they don’t.

As for the charge thing maybe like two charges at most I thought of something similar

[Weevious]

5 hours ago, Kvetevk said:

I would say it's op as of right now, with this skill, you won't need to heal at all, if you stay away from danger while your batteries are recharging (210 seconds with charging skill).

I think it would be better if the whole reviving mechanic could be reworked, it could still revive but for example: you need to activate the body and it will slowly drain energy and wx could revive only on activate chassis, machine III could then either slow down or stop the energy loss.

But currently it isn't a bad or good skill, it just removes the need to heal after revive.

I do not think we live in the same reality if THIS is overpowered. Like, you also don't need to heal at all if you never take damage, does that make the acceleration circuits overpowered- okay bad example. If you're going for healing to full after a revival, and you're going to wait out 210 seconds (nearly half an entire DST day) you can save a skill point in its ENTIRETY by simply walking to your base with those 210 seconds. At best this skill is convenient, you don't need to rush to healing items before your Hardy Circuits recharge, there's no world where this is OP.
Activating a body for revival is interesting, but unless your dropped chassis spawns activated this is a horrendous skill. If it stops being activated when it runs out of charge it's also even more horrendous. Effectively you'd only be able to revive at a chassis if you suspected you were going to die beforehand, and if you did drop an activated chassis on death it basically just nerfs the previous revival skills into being incredibly niche, HOWEVER, if Inhabited Machine III is the perk that makes you drop an activated chassis on death (inhabited machine II would simply drop a deactivated one) it DOES solve the issue of it being a very lackluster upgrade, as now it would basically be the only useful revival skill. It would be a bit like Remote Transfer where the previous stepping stone skills are kinda bad without the final one. I personally wouldn't like this change, but I WILL ADMIT it's more balanced this way AND it makes Inhabited Machine III a much more tantalizing use of your limited insight. If the intent is that you always have to activate your chassis before revival, as in they always drop deactivated, I now no longer want any of these skills, WX's revival would be bad and there's now 3 skill points (2 because one is a stepping stone to remote transfer) that are just a complete waste of insight. Customization is the big thing with skill trees; less viable options means more WX's end up the same and I think that's boring. If you don't want revival skills I don't think you should have to take them (I don't like it being a stepping stone to remote transfer either), but for people that do, I want them to have a GOOD final Inhabited Machine skill, instead of a very meh one.

3 hours ago, ZeRoboButler said:

I'm still of the opinion that the skill's focused on revival be changed to something else entirely, I don't think perks based upon revival are as good as more active perks that change more than just how a player responds to death. 

It made sense for wendy with her connection with the dead but otherwise, I really do think that the revive is just taking the place of something more interesting or appealing for wx while also hindering the chasiss concept of power budget.

But yes, a perk for 50 additional hp does not seem that great, then again neither does sacrificing one of your chassis for a rez.

I disagree with the statement that perks based on revival shouldn't exist (though Inhabited Machine 1 should NOT be a perk you need to get for Remote Transfer, players who don't die shouldn't need to spend their points on a skill meant for beginners to get the FUN skill.) I think WX is in a really good position for a distinct self revival skill. Most characters have to spend a bit of time recollecting their stuff and healing back up before they can return to a fight. WX doesn't drop their stuff in the first place and respawns at full health, the Issue is WX is balanced around being bad without any circuits charged and the circuits recharging slowly, making a unique "get back into combat immediately" revival completely impossible with the current setup. Though obviously WX can't just revive at full charge or they'd immediately be able to die and leave behind the same chassis. This actually gave me an idea to prevent this skill being just a boring revive. Inhabited Machine III: "Quickly resurrecting at a dropped chassis causes you to fully heal and overcharge. While overcharged your circuits cannot be disabled, but dying will not leave behind a chassis. Overcharge ends when you reach full charge or unplug a circuit." I think this is a good way to keep the revives (it's really hard to think of a skill that replaces it, plus I like being able to revive myself) while also making it something interesting, also, overcharge is something from the original Don't Starve, with the 100/100/100 stats returning I think it might also be fun to repurpose it. Please note that it doesn't make you glow or walk faster, but it does immediately charge the circuits that can do both of those things. Your HUD will still display your current charge (allowing you to know when overcharge ends and it's safe to die again (insane sentence actually)), but there should be sparks coming off it to give visual indication that overcharge is in effect. If this seems too strong, please recall that it costs 4 insight points to get here, and it's competing with pseudo-teleportation and 2 extra backup chassis. If you want to revive normally you can also just wait 10 seconds or so before haunting your own body, I imagine electrical sparks are coming off of the dropped chassis for a few seconds to let you know that reviving now will activate an overcharge.

2 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I instead suggest that inhibited machine 2 will make you still lose durability on circuits inside Yiu when you die. But inhibited machine 3 makes it that they don’t.

As for the charge thing maybe like two charges at most I thought of something similar

My previous idea is more wacky and most likely not going to happen, as it takes development time to implement an overcharge mechanic. I really like your idea of nerfing inhabited machine 1 and then reverting the nerf with a currently weak skill point. I also think this would be easier to implement. It never made sense to me that you could just negate every single method of losing Circuit Durability, those things break for a reason... and the reason shouldn't JUST be "I felt like swapping my circuits around." The skill point text would also teach the player that they lose circuit durability for reviving by default. Something like "Reviving with a Backup Chassis fully restores your health and no longer damages your circuits" would tell the player that without that skill reviving will damage their circuits. I really like this tweak, I obviously hope my cool overcharge idea gets in game (I gotta pick up modding sometime) but I think your idea is easier to implement and more balanced. The Inhabited Machine perks are for people who just wanna Inhabit the same Machine forever, so it makes logical sense that the final stage of that is your circuits no longer being damaged if you never modify the Machine being Inhabited.

 

Thank you for your replies everyone! I'm really passionate about WX-78's skill tree and all of your input has been very valuable in properly gauging what people think about WX's revival skills. It allows me to put more thought into my NEXT WX skill tree forum post as I will absolutely be making more of these. I am currently a HUGE FAN of the skill tree and the alpha/beta/gamma circuit rework but will absolutely admit that WX is too strong right now. That being said, I don't really think "too strong" is a always a bad thing in Don't Starve Together. Maxwell can entrap creatures in shadow and sic shadow minion on them from afar, which is way better than having 400 health, but I don't need Maxwell nerfed because doing that is just, fun. Wortox can carry a STUPID amount of souls but Wortox is ALSO really fun, or so I've been told because he simply never clicked with me. That's worth mentioning because even if WX became the best character in the game there are people who would still play Webber because it's more fun to them (Webber fans, I hope your eventual skill tree is everything you dreamed of). The early game is still difficult to the average player, and the post-rift content serves to powercreep the current powercreep with the skill trees while also giving experts something to chew on! I think this is a fun direction that Klei is taking with their game, though it is genuinely very unfortunate that there's basically no way for players to access previous versions of Don't Starve Together where characters were weaker overall, at least there's Solo Don't Starve and mod support.

[Kvetevk]

3 minutes ago, Weevious said:

I do not think we live in the same reality if THIS is overpowered. Like, you also don't need to heal at all if you never take damage, does that make the acceleration circuits overpowered- okay bad example. If you're going for healing to full after a revival, and you're going to wait out 210 seconds (nearly half an entire DST day) you can save a skill point in its ENTIRETY by simply walking to your base with those 210 seconds. At best this skill is convenient, you don't need to rush to healing items before your Hardy Circuits recharge, there's no world where this is OP.

 

Well you need skill and game knowledge to kite properly and dont get hit, with the skill you can just die and revive on the spot with full heatlh.
210 seconds is 3.5 minutes and day lasts 8 minutes, if you also kite and dont get him by the time you get full charge (you can also use milk) you can basicly revive 2 times a day from the start of the game, powerful for new players and goldy powerful to good players, if you also count armor, you can be basicly immortal.

Im not gonna read any further but from what I can see I will tell you that the example I gave before should function like meat effigy, 1 at a time and other players could also activate it, but the one which spawns when you die would be inactive.

[Radicaljoe]

1 minute ago, Kvetevk said:

Well you need skill and game knowledge to kite properly and dont get hit, with the skill you can just die and revive on the spot with full heatlh.
210 seconds is 3.5 minutes and day lasts 8 minutes, if you also kite and dont get him by the time you get full charge (you can also use milk) you can basicly revive 2 times a day from the start of the game, powerful for new players and goldy powerful to good players, if you also count armor, you can be basicly immortal.
 

okay this is simply all sorts of incorrect.
1- if a player is dying that much for this to be useful, +50 health isn't gonna save them as much as you're hoping. 
2- electric milk is a pain in the ass to get, it's always been an option, yet there's a reason you never see anyone bring it up in these last 4 years when talking about how annoying waiting for WX's bars to recharge.
3- if a player needs to revive twice a day, they can just enable endless mode and turn off health penalty. It's just better for that player at that point. 
4- you'd get more health just waiting a minute for a super HP circuit to recharge.

5- it wouldn't be powerful for good players because they'd either die relatively rarely for the skill to be useful (or never die). OR they would just eat some healing food afterwards, 50 is such a nothing number, that's like 3 blue caps, or about 1 pierogi, or (more realisticly) less than what 1 gear heals.

[Kvetevk]

3 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

1- if a player is dying that much for this to be useful, +50 health isn't gonna save them as much as you're hoping. 

well if you have hardy circuits that health can grow while your charge charges
 

3 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

2- electric milk is a pain in the ass to get, it's always been an option, yet there's a reason you never see anyone bring it up in these last 4 years when talking about how annoying waiting for WX's bars to recharge.

With the skill Watts up, it goes from 1 minute 30 seconds to 35 seconds
 

5 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

3- if a player needs to revive twice a day, they can just enable endless mode and turn off health penalty. It's just better for that player at that point. 

what about official servers? This can be abused to reset stats, already tried it in public servers
 

7 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

4- you'd get more health just waiting a minute for a super HP circuit to recharge.

yes but you get double the health if you revive with max health and then wait for the hardy circuits to recharge

[Radicaljoe]

8 minutes ago, Kvetevk said:

well if you have hardy circuits that health can grow while your charge charges

your health would grow regardless is the point. 

8 minutes ago, Kvetevk said:

With the skill Watts up, it goes from 1 minute 30 seconds to 35 seconds

I'm aware, just pointing out the milk is terrible as an option
 

9 minutes ago, Kvetevk said:

what about official servers? This can be abused to reset stats, already tried it in public servers

Not to be dismissive but like, does it matter? Who's Min-maxing in a klei pub that'll be reset in 40 minutes anyway.
 

11 minutes ago, Kvetevk said:

yes but you get double the health if you revive with max health and then wait for the hardy circuits to recharge

You can also eat some healing food before the charge takes place, such as perhaps, 1 hear to gain +60 health.

13 minutes ago, Kvetevk said:

With the skill Watts up, it goes from 1 minute 30 seconds to 35 seconds

Not really related related to the current topic, but this is also a chance to say that Hot Swap is useless too. Becuase yea, 35 seconds is just better than -1 circuit lost.

[Kvetevk]

8 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

your health would grow regardless is the point. 

I'm aware, just pointing out the milk is terrible as an option
 

Not to be dismissive but like, does it matter? Who's Min-maxing in a klei pub that'll be reset in 40 minutes anyway.
 

You can also eat some healing food before the charge takes place, such as perhaps, 1 hear to gain +60 health.

yeah like I said, its not good nor bad but its abusable, currently it feels weird
(also the circuits are gonna be nerfed)
It should be reworked or changed

Edited March 31 by Kvetevk

[GimplyGoose]

I think the revive on chassis should be changed by default to incur a max hp penalty and the inhabited machine III skill should remove that penalty.