Another rant about WARBOT

[Cruvimaster]

5 hours ago, Hungry French said:

And AFW armor. This well shows how poor Klei are in balance, that the lureplant gear is almost always useless except for the staff.

Brightshade Bomb is the best item against Scion. Ice Crystaleyezer Kit is one of the best strategies against Warbot. Brightshade Helm has many more functions than Void Cowl. Although Brightshade Husk is not used, Polar Bearger Bin is the best item on both sides (every player should carry it in their inventory at all times). I would like to understand more about your concept of balancing. 

[oregu]

On 8/25/2025 at 11:32 PM, Hi. said:

FW [is] quite fun and I would say more forgiving than WARBOT.

Alright, let's test this theory.

On 8/25/2025 at 11:32 PM, Hi. said:

It's like it was designed to annoy you, it can easily stun lock you and hit to upwards of 200+ damage and 30 planar damage

FW constantly freezes you in place with bone cages. It's pretty much worse than stunlocking because as least you can slightly move when you're stunlocked. It's designed to do it as much as possible when it thinks it's able to. Of course you can use methods to evade bone cages, but those are reserved for specific players (or beefao users, apparently).

On 8/25/2025 at 11:32 PM, Hi. said:

Also why when you die the ENTIRE fight gets reset? even if you revive yourself WARBOT will just "despawn" no matter what. even in multiplayer this fight sucks because after WARBOT you have the Sicon which is awful in multiplayer.

If you happen to die during FW while he is summoning, the fight is also practically reset. The babies heal to full instantly (I know like, you said 1-2 summons worth of woven shadows heal him to full, fair enough. It takes 40 woven shadows to fully heal FW, that seems about right) summoning phase, you also don't have much time to revive because the fuelweaver will eventually despawn itself when left alone, but I guess that's not much of an issue. So no, this concept of a fight "resetting" is not new. BQ and Toad are other bosses resets itself quite quickly. Of course, all of this can be avoided from fighting the boss as far as possible from the spawnpoint.

It's a lot easier to underprepare for FW than it is for WOBOT. And if you do have to redo the FW fight, I would say a lot of people would find it more trouble having to go through the Atrium again then through the sea.

On 8/25/2025 at 11:32 PM, Hi. said:

Terramites - They are VERY annoying and the only way to counter them is to wear "hard" armor pieces which all except 1 have planar defense (which is like only 5 planar defense) which sucks because WARBOT has 30 planar damage and can easily chain hits leaving little room to heal.

Warbler - I hate these things. I only hate these things because when warbot jumps it's easier to just go underneath it (and sometimes you have to) but these things can stun you making you get hit (terramites can also do this)

Lunar beam - the only thing I like, it's easy to avoid very punishing if you don't avoid it and can catch you off guard. It's also pretty cool

For me, it would be the opposite; The only thing I find a bit absurd is the lunar beam cause it is hard to see and appears near instantly, especially when fighting the boss with other players. If you're lagging you could not dodge lunar beams from reaction, while the terramites and warblers for instance are more telegraphed. And other players could make you end up walking into their lunar beam. It's a mess.

Terrarmites are easy to dodge if you recognize the pattern theyre moving in. I didn't think they were that hard to avoid, even while fighting WARBOT for the first time..

Warblers are one of the easier bots to avoid, even if you're lagging. Just be more careful about going to attack WARBOT, especially if warblers haven't zapped in a while and it will be fine.

A lot of this is more fair than FW, considering they're all dodgable, whilst dodging bonecage or making FW dodge minions is significantly more difficult (of course you can use aoe to make fw easier or use other means to make the fight easier but let's not talk about it.) It's harder to optimize FW than WARBOT. You can brute force WOBOT by spamming healing foods whenever you get slightly hurt and get a ton of armor, whereas FW is not that simple.

On 8/25/2025 at 11:32 PM, Hi. said:

FW is overwhelming but still pretty simple enough, there are also ways to counter FW's healing and shield.

At the end of the day if you really hate a boss and you're forced to fight it alone, I'd say gunpowder if your best friend. Most bosses in DST are designed with multiple players in mind, WARBOT included. It's a lot harder for multiple people to wipe during the WARBOT fight; They probably didn't account for people playing it alone as much.

I really dont think FW is the best comparison for WARBOT. Not because they are similar in difficulty, but because CC is the supposed counterpart to FW, those bosses are ideally supposed to be compared instead difficultywise, Whereas CC is painfully more forgiving than FW (mainly because you can leave the fight anytime and all you have to do in the fight is dodge, just like WARBOT. Maybe CC can hit harder than FW, but I say both WARBOT and CC are easier to learn and understand than FW) More likely than not, DST is going to have a counterpart to WARBOT as well. I guess we'll just have to see what that looks like.

Edited August 27, 2025 by oregu

[oregu]

40 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

Brightshade Bomb is the best item against Scion. Ice Crystaleyezer Kit is one of the best strategies against Warbot. Brightshade Helm has many more functions than Void Cowl. Although Brightshade Husk is not used, Polar Bearger Bin is the best item on both sides (every player should carry it in their inventory at all times). I would like to understand more about your concept of balancing. 

Not only that, but brightsmithy items are more easier to mass-produce or economical than shadow armor I'd say, mainly cause of character-specific abilities (though I guess the only ability that can "produce" shadow armor is Winona's, and only then, she can only make nightmare fuel.)

Thanks to the "wonderful" inicmal gestalts, you're supposed to wear brightshade armor on the surface always (at least unless they changed something.) The smasher doubles as a pickaxe and hammer, saving an inventory slot. The shovel doubles as a hoe and shovel, saving another inventory slot. Brightshade armor can be upgraded to brambleshade armor, which has a lot more uses than void armor. 

Edited August 27, 2025 by oregu

[Cruvimaster]

1 minute ago, oregu said:

Thanks to the "wonderful" inicmal gestalts, you're supposed to wear brightshade armor on the surface always (at least unless they changed something.) 

They changed that.

[oregu]

2 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

They changed that.

Oh, that's nice to hear.

[Cruvimaster]

Just now, oregu said:

Oh, that's nice to hear.

 

[Hungry French]

2 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Brightshade Bomb is the best item against Scion. Ice Crystaleyezer Kit is one of the best strategies against Warbot. Brightshade Helm has many more functions than Void Cowl. Although Brightshade Husk is not used, Polar Bearger Bin is the best item on both sides (every player should carry it in their inventory at all times). I would like to understand more about your concept of balancing.

Brightshade Bomb has all the problems that consumables have. Expensive and disposable.

Ice Crystaleyezer Kit ?) I've hardly seen it used, and it's not profitable.

Polar Bearger Bin -  An item that you can do without. Bundle Wrap exist.

And I was talking about the armor and the helmet and the sword. Which are useless after the shadow rift. 
Scythe + AFW armor + Void Cowl is better. 
Brightshade Helm is only effective with a staff.

The balance? Brightshade - against moonlight. 
Voidcloth - against shadows. 
AFW ARMOR - nerf or delete xd ?

 

[Cruvimaster]

1 minute ago, Hungry French said:

Brightshade Bomb has all the problems that consumables have. Expensive and disposable.

It is a powerful item and therefore cannot be trivialized. Simply using Construction Amulet makes the sufficient amount for Scion cheaply. And if you want enormous quantities, just have a Wickerbottom and a Wilson on the map.
 

5 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Ice Crystaleyezer Kit ?) I've hardly seen it used, and it's not profitable.

It's just one of four options, and I've seen it used a lot, including by Klei ambassadors in streams. And of course, there are others besides the ones I mentioned (for example, setting items on the ground on fire with the Fire Staff). 

 

9 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

Polar Bearger Bin -  An item that you can do without. Bundle Wrap exist.

It is one of the most wanted and used items in the game. You know that and just don't want to admit it publicly.

 

13 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

And I was talking about the armor and the helmet and the sword. Which are useless after the shadow rift. 
Scythe + AFW armor + Void Cowl is better. 
Brightshade Helm is only effective with a staff.

There is no magic formula for this. It is much easier to maintain surface resources. Brightshade Husk simply comes to the location that the player wants. It can even generate passively in the Magma. Meanwhile, Pure Brilliance can be obtained by various means (including farming Wicker + Wilson). If playing together, it is certainly better to use surface items. Specifically regarding the helmet, I remember that the Brightshade Helm is excellent for those who base in the desert in summer, go to the moon island, or keep the Mysterious Energy event activated in the world.

 

24 minutes ago, Hungry French said:

AFW ARMOR - nerf or delete xd ?

The AFW loot existed before all of this. You can’t compare something from 9 years ago with the current content. There’s no parallelism in that reasoning. And how many players do you think can defeat the AFW solo and without using cheese? It’s precisely because so few can that Klei allowed enabling rifts in the world settings.

I know you’re smart. So make smart comparisons.

There are 11 items on each side for a reason. Parallelism. Warbis, Dreadstone, and boss loot aren't part of this debate.