Suggested Numerical Changes for Inimical Gestalt

[Lisgen]

I wanted to initiate a discussion regarding potential numerical adjustments for the Inimical Gestalt. As many of you have probably noticed, this neutral hostile creature feels significantly overpowered in the current environment. While its role as a balance for positive effects is clear, its current health and attack power are excessively high, making it less of a balanced threat and more of an unreasonable obstacle.

Specifically, by comparing it to the Bone Helm and other Shadow Creatures, I suggest the following key changes to align it better with the intended difficulty and resource investment:

• Drastically Reduce Attack Power: This is the most critical change. As a potential threat in close proximity, its attack power is simply too high. Referencing the Terrorbeak, I suggest reducing its attack power from the current 165 + 15 down to 40 + 10, with a maximum not exceeding 45 + 15. Based on my understanding of DST game mechanics, a non-giant creature's single attack damage should absolutely not exceed 75, to prevent characters from facing instant death due to a single mistake. This current 165 + 15 attack power is quite puzzling.

• Reduce Base Health: Given that a maximum of 4 can spawn, comparing it to the Terrorbeak is reasonable. Adjusting its health from 2000 down to a range of 400~600 would be a much more appropriate numerical value.

My reasoning behind these suggestions is to ensure the Inimical Gestalt becomes a fair impediment and aligns with the overall style of the game, without disrupting the core gameplay experience. Currently, it forces players to actively avoid it, which is not ideal for a creature intended to be the negative consequence of a powerful buff. The current values create an unnecessarily punishing experience that hinders players from experiencing new items.

[Cruvimaster]

1 hour ago, Lisgen said:

I wanted to initiate a discussion regarding potential numerical adjustments for the Inimical Gestalt. As many of you have probably noticed, this neutral hostile creature feels significantly overpowered in the current environment. While its role as a balance for positive effects is clear, its current health and attack power are excessively high, making it less of a balanced threat and more of an unreasonable obstacle.

Specifically, by comparing it to the Bone Helm and other Shadow Creatures, I suggest the following key changes to align it better with the intended difficulty and resource investment:

• Drastically Reduce Attack Power: This is the most critical change. As a potential threat in close proximity, its attack power is simply too high. Referencing the Terrorbeak, I suggest reducing its attack power from the current 165 + 15 down to 40 + 10, with a maximum not exceeding 45 + 15. Based on my understanding of DST game mechanics, a non-giant creature's single attack damage should absolutely not exceed 75, to prevent characters from facing instant death due to a single mistake. This current 165 + 15 attack power is quite puzzling.

• Reduce Base Health: Given that a maximum of 4 can spawn, comparing it to the Terrorbeak is reasonable. Adjusting its health from 2000 down to a range of 400~600 would be a much more appropriate numerical value.

My reasoning behind these suggestions is to ensure the Inimical Gestalt becomes a fair impediment and aligns with the overall style of the game, without disrupting the core gameplay experience. Currently, it forces players to actively avoid it, which is not ideal for a creature intended to be the negative consequence of a powerful buff. The current values create an unnecessarily punishing experience that hinders players from experiencing new items.

The only advantage of this mob is that you can use it to fight other monsters. If it has low health or weak attack, you'll just have one monster left to get in the way of your gameplay.

For me, this monster doesn't need any nerfs.

 

Now imagine using them against the misery toadstool.

Edited June 19, 2025 by Cruvimaster

[Edible Coal]

48 minutes ago, milsonmeow said:

Y'know, 'funniest' thing was brightshades also doing big damage despite being the regular mobs you gotta smack often: 100 regular + 30 planar damage, to unarmored players. So yeah; in conclusion it's either Klei not thinking what's the best damage compromise or they legit just 'forgot'.

last time i check, brightshade does not grow legs and start following you around the world

[konijnenmoed]

17 minutes ago, Cruvimaster said:

The only advantage of this mob is that you can use it to fight other monsters. If it has low health or weak attack, you'll just have one monster left to get in the way of your gameplay.

For me, this monster doesn't need any nerfs.

 

Now imagine using them against the misery toadstool.

Until you aren't fighting solo, but in multiplayer, and one of the spawned gestalts will hit your friends. Happened to me, and seen multiple reports on this happening to others. It could be because of AoE, but one time my Brightshade Staff bounced off to one gestalt that got spawned by another player, and it started attacking me mid-fight against Bee Queen.

[Cruvimaster]

2 minutes ago, konijnenmoed said:

Until you aren't fighting solo, but in multiplayer, and one of the spawned gestalts will hit your friends. Happened to me, and seen multiple reports on this happening to others. It could be because of AoE, but one time my Brightshade Staff bounced off to one gestalt that got spawned by another player, and it started attacking me mid-fight against Bee Queen.

The nerf will not solve your problem. The only solution would be to remove the mob. So, either remove it or leave it as it is.

[konijnenmoed]

1 minute ago, Cruvimaster said:

The nerf will not solve your problem. The only solution would be to remove the mob. So, either remove it or leave it as it is.

Maybe they can look into a solution how they are coded when they spawn as "allies". Reduced damage, or no AoE towards players when spawned by wearing the crown. I don't know, I'm not a dev.

I don't think the mob should be removed, but they do need to tweak some of its behaviour. I've seen players on my server die 3 times in a row because the gestalts even aggro against players when they are still in the reviving animation. 

 

[Cruvimaster]

1 minute ago, konijnenmoed said:

Maybe they can look into a solution how they are coded when they spawn as "allies". Reduced damage, or no AoE towards players when spawned by wearing the crown. I don't know, I'm not a dev.

I don't think the mob should be removed, but they do need to tweak some of its behaviour. I've seen players on my server die 3 times in a row because the gestalts even aggro against players when they are still in the reviving animation. 

 

If I use the crown with 5 jewels against AFW, it won't make a substantial difference, because I'll have 4 mobs giving me a total of 160 + 40. And that damage is already enough to destroy the fight completely.

That's why I say that the nerf is the worst solution, because it loses any benefit and only has the disadvantages.

[konijnenmoed]

Just now, Cruvimaster said:

If I use the crown with 5 jewels against AFW, it won't make a substantial difference, because I'll have 4 mobs giving me a total of 160 + 40. And that damage is already enough to destroy the fight completely.

That's why I say that the nerf is the worst solution, because it loses any benefit and only has the disadvantages.

I'm not talking about a nerf towards a boss, I'm talking about reduced damage or no AoE against (other) players when the Inimical Gestalts are spawned as an ally. 

The "organically" spawned Inimical Gestalts during Lunar Rifts can be fixed by some behaviour changes. As far as I know they were designed to be neutral and only fight back when attacked? Correct me if I'm wrong. But in that case, no need to nerf them imo.

[Lisgen]

1 hour ago, Cruvimaster said:

If I use the crown with 5 jewels against AFW, it won't make a substantial difference, because I'll have 4 mobs giving me a total of 160 + 40. And that damage is already enough to destroy the fight completely.

That's why I say that the nerf is the worst solution, because it loses any benefit and only has the disadvantages.

The core issue is that if players accidentally attack Inimical Gestalt while wearing a backpack, its counter-attack is fatal. Players need to be allowed time to take off their hat to reset aggro after receiving 1-2 attacks.

Regarding the boss fights you mentioned, players will be wearing armor, but an attack power of 165 + 15 still seems a bit harsh even with protection. In everyday exploration, a single hit dealing as much as 75 damage completely deviates from Don't Starve Together's balance design. This damage value should in no way exceed 75, as even aggressive Tunneling Vines only deal 65 + 10 damage.

Inimical Gestalt should be a fair challenge in the game, not a design that leads to instant death. As for using them as a means to deal with bosses, I remain neutral, as infinite damage amplification and light are already quite powerful.

[Cassielu]

It not only requires numerical balance, but their spawn mechanisms must also change.

It is absolutely absurd to punish all players on the entire enlightenment strategy for defeating the final boss to balance the new item just obtained by one of them. Then what's the difference between defeating Scion and burning down the base?

[SilverSpoon]

6 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

The nerf will not solve your problem. The only solution would be to remove the mob. So, either remove it or leave it as it is.

Agreed. Just changing the numbers would only turn it from a “F*CKing disgusting” into a “disgusting”. What really needs to be addressed is the underlying design that kicks player's ass with unreasonable things, like becoming hostile due to a misclick.

That said, if this is meant to be a "Punishment with high sanity in an enlightened environment: Hard mode”, then I think there are players who might actually enjoy that kind of challenge. So simply removing this might not be the right either.

@Evelo, I know that you’ve expected survival something, so I'll ask this: Do you think this is Survival or not? Sorry to get personal.

Edited June 19, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[JazzyGames]

7 hours ago, Cruvimaster said:

Now imagine using them against the misery toadstool.

No inimical gestalts currently spawning in the caves, unfortunately. Hope it's not a bug.

[Cruvimaster]

Just now, JazzyGames said:

No inimical gestalts currently spawning in the caves, unfortunately. Hope it's not a bug.

Wow!

I was thinking of using them when Misery did the explosive attack. 

BUT I'd rather they didn't show up as I'd like to wear the crown against AFW.

[Evelo]

39 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

@Evelo, I know that you’ve expected survival something, so I'll ask this: Do you think this is Survival or not? Sorry to get personal.

I hath been summoned! Uh. to answer your question. I don't know; cause I haven't experienced them first hand. Based on what I've seen, they are really passive so if someone chooses to fight them, that's on them. I could be wrong though as, like I said, I haven't experienced it in game.

I have seen people report that those without enlightenment get attacked by them which I find to be BS from a design point. I see these guys as the sane version of Terror Beaks (though with too much HP and probably spawning too many) which I think is cool. In theory, have to experience it for myself to have a concrete opinion rather than a speculative opinion.

[SilverSpoon]

20 minutes ago, Evelo said:

I hath been summoned! Uh. to answer your question. I don't know; cause I haven't experienced them first hand. Based on what I've seen, they are really passive so if someone chooses to fight them, that's on them. I could be wrong though as, like I said, I haven't experienced it in game.

I have seen people report that those without enlightenment get attacked by them which I find to be BS from a design point. I see these guys as the sane version of Terror Beaks (though with too much HP and probably spawning too many) which I think is cool. In theory, have to experience it for myself to have a concrete opinion rather than a speculative opinion.

Thank you for answering my call and for your response.

Before you begin your experience, please be aware that Inimical Gestalt have been reported to have some bugs.

Edited June 19, 2025 by SilverSpoon

[Cassielu]

4 hours ago, JazzyGames said:

No inimical gestalts currently spawning in the caves, unfortunately. Hope it's not a bug.

It is most likely to be. It seems that there are some issues with cross-shard communication, causing the Cave world to be unaware that Scion has been killed.

[hoxi]

4 hours ago, Cassielu said:

It is most likely to be. It seems that there are some issues with cross-shard communication, causing the Cave world to be unaware that Scion has been killed.

It's not a shard communication issue. Other shards (assuming forest is the master one, which is the usual vanilla case) will get the info just fine. The problem is the brightmarespawner component (which handles Gestalt and Inimical Gestalt spawning) for the cave world (or other worlds) not receiving it.

It feels like an oversight because the component itself checks using the networked version of the component that tracks if the Celestial Scion was defeated, but the event it listens for to enable the spawns never fires in other shards. That one only triggers in the forest world and it's the same event that triggers the syncing to the other shards in the first place.

[AliceShiki]

On 6/19/2025 at 9:34 AM, Cruvimaster said:

The only advantage of this mob is that you can use it to fight other monsters. If it has low health or weak attack, you'll just have one monster left to get in the way of your gameplay.

For me, this monster doesn't need any nerfs.

 

Now imagine using them against the misery toadstool.

Oh, that looks way better than the other video showing them against Crystal Deerclops. This was like... 10k dmg in some 100ish seconds? They look like a pretty viable option for cheesing bosses now... Nice! I like it!

As for the thread's suggestions... I don't think nerfing an endgame mob to match a Terrorbeak would make any sense whatsoever. Feels like their only problem rn are issues in their AI, and maybe the fact that they can be hit by Brightshade Staff specifically while they're neutral.

[thonkster]

5 hours ago, AliceShiki said:

Feels like their only problem rn are issues in their AI, and maybe the fact that they can be hit by Brightshade Staff specifically while they're neutral.

Imagine playing Wormwood, who is lunar-aligned and benefits a lot from fully charged Enlightened Crown, with potential to deal lots of damage with Crown and Brambleshade Armor. With this set up you can easily get in a situation, when a single burst of spikes can aggro Inimical Gestalts. Yes, nightmare creatures are also aggroed by the spikes, but these gestalts are causing grogginess on hit, which might be fatal in a boss fight. It is much easier to deal with nightmare creatures mid-fight, with gestalts, well, not that easy though...
Feels like their attack/HP values are a bit high for the current combat-oriented gameplay, AI is just another thing. 

[AliceShiki]

4 hours ago, thonkster said:

Imagine playing Wormwood, who is lunar-aligned and benefits a lot from fully charged Enlightened Crown, with potential to deal lots of damage with Crown and Brambleshade Armor. With this set up you can easily get in a situation, when a single burst of spikes can aggro Inimical Gestalts. Yes, nightmare creatures are also aggroed by the spikes, but these gestalts are causing grogginess on hit, which might be fatal in a boss fight. It is much easier to deal with nightmare creatures mid-fight, with gestalts, well, not that easy though...
Feels like their attack/HP values are a bit high for the current combat-oriented gameplay, AI is just another thing. 

That's not a numbers problem, that's just a request to make Inimical Gestalts immune to player AoE when they're not hostile to the player... Which is mostly a Brightshade Staff issue, but I guess it can also be an issue with certain specific character perks.