Everyone misses the point of Wilson when suggesting Skilltree stuff

[cropo]

In what I believe is the very first video introducing Don't Starve for the first time, the very first thing we see and I mean the VERY first thing we see Wilson doing is brewing a potion and causing a mini-explosion. Letting him brew crappy potions that are made so badly that they have detrimental effects to the enemies he throws them at doesn't seem too out of character for Wilson.

People say Wilson is a good basic starter character, and that making him more unique and complex would ruin that. I disagree with the idea that he is a basic starter character for new players; he is an expert character that you should only play once you already have the game down and understand what to do and how to survive without the tedious drawbacks of Wes. He's not a "challenge" character like Wes, but he's somewhere in the middle. Recommending Wilson to a new player has always gone badly for me, to the point I just tell them to pick Wendy if they want to have any hope of not repeating a death-loop, getting bored, and quitting while they learn the basics.

Wilsons main benefit in old Don't Starve is that other character had such massively bad downsides, with terrible upsides(save for a small few that were absolutely broken.) that it made more sense to play the character that didn't have to deal with that unbalanced mess.  People continue to cite this time-period to reinforce the idea that he works as a basic character, but what no one seems to point out is that the strongest threat we had during this time was Deerclops.  Dragonfly was arguably the strongest old boss of Don't Starve, and that's because she completely broke the rules of kiting, and even Dragonfly went down easily with some gunpowder. The game isn't that basic anymore, bosses are much, much harder than they used to be and we're only going to get more of them with new updates. 

I think it's also time that we accept that the survivors in general are no longer unskilled randoms; the survivors have been living and dying in the constant for what is possibly hundreds of years...they can't be greenhorns forever, and if the plot is ever going to advance any further it needs to come to terms with the fact that the survivors in general need upgrades, endings to their personal failures in the real world, and a change to the idea that they can't figure out how to hone and use their gimmicks more effectively. 

Wilson needs to be buffed, that's my opinion. Him needing to be this default blank slate has been a curse that has prevented him from receiving any love throughout the entire run of the game and the game no longer has any place for a "default blank slate" character. If this cannot be done, he needs to stop being advertised as the default face of Don't Starve, because he's no longer a beginner character, he's a less-tedious Wes only meant for players who actually know what they're doing.

[CrimsonStrider]

14 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I kinda wish potions were a proper mechanic and not hallowed knights exclusive.

The game needs more things that feel like magic, rather than being explained by magic.

I see Warly as the alchemist. 

[Jakepeng99]

48 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

You do realize Wilson's ranking in this site has gone down further and further? Before skill trees, he's often at the 3rd place, with Wigfrid and Wendy on the other 2.

Whats your point?

He is the 4th most played character (or actually 7th if those bars in between are the other characters, this website needs layed out better i cant see who they are). Wendy, Wortox and Walter have obvious spikes because of their skilltrees as well, which is a factor which would normally hinder Wilson in terms of stats, but it didnt here.

This evidence you gave goes against you. Its clear Wilson is a popular pick, he is higher than key characters like Wickerbottom, WX 78, Wurt and Winona. I see no problems here, just because he isnt in the top 3 anymore doesnt mean there is a problem.

 

[Walrusst]

5 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

 

He is the 4th most played character (or actually 7th if those bars in between are the other characters, this website needs layed out better i cant see who they are). Wendy, Wortox and Walter have obvious spikes because of their skilltrees as well, which is a factor which would normally hinder Wilson in terms of stats, but it didnt here.

 

Its seventh. Sometimes eigth.
Wendy/wifrid/wortox/wolfgang/walter/woodie then he swaps places with willow occasionally. Wortox has positively been taking over because cheap heals, revives, and darkswords attracts a lot of people ignoring the teleports and AOE.

Warly, wx, wickerbottom need a million times more work, but its like they need whole update levels of work instead of small text as the side dish to a major patchnote.

Edited March 9, 2025 by Walrusst

[Anis5240]

13 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

He is the 4th most played character (or actually 7th if those bars in between are the other characters, this website needs layed out better i cant see who they are). Wendy, Wortox and Walter have obvious spikes because of their skilltrees as well, which is a factor which would normally hinder Wilson in terms of stats, but it didnt here.

And? Even after those skill trees were released he still remained below where he's often at.

14 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I see no problems here, just because he isnt in the top 3 anymore doesnt mean there is a problem.

Oh, so what will happen when Wendy suddenly drops to the lower rung of the ranking? Riots all over the world. So why couldn't the same be applied here too?

And wasn't you the one who kept yapping about how Wurt deserved more and more upgrades towards her merm kingdom, yet also being disappointed when Klei used said ideas? How saddening.

Just this once, if you really have nothing better to say about the improvements he need, then stop bothering. Just this once, let the players who truly love Wilson from A to Z be the ones who suggest what will suit him best.

[Jakepeng99]

3 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

And? Even after those skill trees were released he still remained below where he's often at.

 you are reaching for straws.

14 minutes ago, Walrusst said:

Its seventh. Sometimes eigth.
Wendy/wifrid/wortox/wolfgang/walter/woodie then he swaps places with willow occasionally. Wortox has positively been taking over because cheap heals, revives, and darkswords attracts a lot of people ignoring the teleports and AOE.

Warly, wx, wickerbottom need a million times more work, but its like they need whole update levels of work instead of small text as the side dish to a major patchnote.

You are reaching for straws too. Its not even like Wilson is a huge difference in numbers like with Wes, Wendy and Warly, its just a small decrease from each position. If you want him to be the 3rd most plaued character, it makes 0 sense at all. He is still high on the leaderboard, and there always has to be someone who is played less than someone else.

[Anis5240]

2 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

you are reaching for straws.

Said straws already speak volumes.

[cropo]

I don't think his placement on any leaderboards matter. He is the flagship character, even if he sucked it would be weird if he wasn't slightly higher up on the list. New players are going to pick him, too unsure of what character they actually want because they don't know the game yet.


Above all of that, Wilson is just simply a very good-looking character, with incredibly awesome skins. If I had to pick between him and Wolfgang, even though I would have a much smoother experience playing Wolfgang, I'd still pick Wilson simply because I don't like how Wolfgang looks. 

Veterans also play him a lot, because they don't need the benefits of another character to carry them through the game and he isn't intentionally crippled like Wes is so while he isn't a good character, he isn't made to be miserable to the player. 

What people should really be paying attention to is the pushback against buffing him. Particularly, they don't argue Wilson is good or strong, rather that he somehow needs to remain in the state he is in, sometimes they argue that he needs to be in this basic state to teach the player the basics of the game without extra fluff, or something along those lines. The arguments may differ slightly, but they all boil down to "Yeah you're right, but he needs to be that way.". Regardless of his play rate, the fact that this is the best argument in favor of Wilsons current state is what really shows his lacking kit.

[Anis5240]

6 minutes ago, cropo said:

rather that he somehow needs to remain in the state he is in

and said argument was so stupid to begin with. new players still would rather flock to Wigfrid and Wendy.

it just boils down to this:

Wigfrid - finally having perks related to her old career (stage actress): "Wow, finally, good lore; it suits her!"

Wilson - imagine just suggesting him to have chemistry-based skill because he liked chemistry: "EEWWEWW BASIC CHARACTER SHOULD REMAIN BASIC"

Edited March 9, 2025 by Anis5240

[Szczuku]

18 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

I also physically recoil at the 3949058th thread suggesting that wilson get an alchemy tab or the ability to brew potions like he's some sort of goofy mad scientist and not just a jobless guy in his 30s

Yeah, that'd be such a cheap, uncreative and overall a low hanging fruit-way of developping his character. Imagine if Wilson was just some guy who likes setting things on fire and people suggested that his skilltree should turn him into a fire-magic user

[CrimsonStrider]

25 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

Wilson - imagine just suggesting him to have chemistry-based skill because he liked chemistry: "EEWWEWW BASIC CHARACTER SHOULD REMAIN BASIC"

Does he like chemistry? Or just science? Are you projecting him liking chemistry because it makes more sense to you?

He could easily have different skill setup or tweaks to his current kit without making him an alchemist. 

And as I said, Warly already fulfills that role. Why give Wilson the ability to craft useful points when that's something Warly already does with food?

Edited March 9, 2025 by CrimsonStrider

[Anis5240]

12 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

Does he like chemistry?

chemistry lab incident

literally first few seconds of forbidden knowledge video was him mixing chemicals

him examining creamy potato puree: "I've heard that cooking is basically chemistry. I should try it."

him examining the Empty Flask trinket: "Hard to find a good flask around here."

17 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Imagine if Wilson was just some guy who likes setting things on fire and people suggested that his skilltree should turn him into a fire-magic user

funny you said that, just reverse the guy with willow and you have the same BS anyway

18 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

And as I said, Warly already fulfills that role.

since when warly was dabbling in chemistry? he just grinding food as 'spices'

Edited March 9, 2025 by Anis5240

[CrimsonStrider]

It's very clear that Warly loves cooking.

It's very clear that Willow loves fire.

It's very clear that Webber loves spiders. 

Ita very clear that Winona likes making things. 

Regarding Wilson It's very clear that he loves science, with science being left intent ambiguous and almost analogous to magic. But the rest is unclear. Maybe we should give him gravity skills because he's made gravity based quotes. I know, let's give him a nuclear physics tabs because he knows what an atom is, and now he can create nukes.

A chemistry tree would make more sense on him than anyone else. Sure. Is it his passion? I never felt that way. I'll take your word for the video as I can't watch it, but the quotes just feel like general science jokes rather than a hint at something deeper.

More importantly, giving him those skills only encroaches on what Warly does. I'd rather them make Warly the cool character that makes "potions" and give him a good tree in that sense. 

[NPCMaxwell]

Since every other character is basically a „cosplaying Wilson“ (SGWilson is for every player) (Wilson‘s speech being „generic“ when you add quotes for a custom item etc.)

I also think it‘s important to keep Wilson as simple as possible.

So I really like your few suggestions in the first post.

Most important thing to me would actually be the last suggestion of the second post, to have Wilson have a specific animation for the transmutations x) It would add more for me then anything special gameplay changing.

But then also a real chemistry branch as suggested would be nice and lore fitting (especially with a small chance for failure maybe?)

[Anis5240]

19 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

general science jokes

put that fault onto klei, would you. we could have in-depth science stuff, yet klei just make him more of the pun man.

[cropo]

1 hour ago, CrimsonStrider said:

More importantly, giving him those skills only encroaches on what Warly does. I'd rather them make Warly the cool character that makes "potions" and give him a good tree in that sense. 

I was thinking more that he could make, on the fly, crappy "potions" that are toxic and dangerous. Getting stronger as he runs(because he is shaking them, mixing it further.) and can throw them at his enemies, rather than making "potions" in the sense that you consume them for buffs or healing. Holding them for too long could cause it to explode and harm Wilson, etc.

Or being able to animate his beard with a concoction gone horribly wrong, letting it whip enemies or something. The effects would be more whacky in nature, definitely not something swap-character tier like Warly.

How is science not his passion? If anything, the fact that he sucks so much at it but continues to aggressively pursue it to the point that he went to College for it until he blew up the lab, and then bought a house from Wagstaff to follow in his footsteps, shows far more passion than other characters. Willow for example only has a passion for fire because it was the only thing she had, her life depended on it, Webber didn't have a choice in what they became and his aptitude for spiders is more of an extension of their friendly and kind nature rather than just liking spiders.  Wigfrid herself was shown to be a failure in her particular role, but she still tries to pursue it because it's her passion. The entire reason Wilson was dragged into the constant was because of his desire to accel in science. He's even more passionate than Wagstaff is, since Wagstaff is clearly just using his pre-existing aptitude of science for profit rather than the discovery itself.

Unless you're only keeping this related to Chemistry, and I mean it doesn't have to be chemistry specifically, most of this is just spitballing. But his default character picture is him trying to pour a liquid onto a dead chicken for dubious results, so it does make sense.

Edited March 9, 2025 by cropo

[Anis5240]

At the end of each day, ideas on making Wilson unique are getting close to nonexistent.

I suggested him to have healing perks, seeing that he had invented the telltale heart and booster shot, yet guess what happen? Both Walter and Wendy have stolen it. Revival? Wigfrid and Wortox did practically the same deal. Same with Walter's portable campfire, which just makes his torch toss even more terrible and saddening to look at.

So him getting a possible chemistry branch is one of the only hopes. After all, alchemy IS the forefather of the current chemistry, so it's pretty much given anyway.

[cropo]

You could even make it fit his theme of being a forgiving basic character.

Like for example being able to make a non-stackable potion that, when held, causes the next hit you take to cause the flask to explode instead of damaging Wilson but it ragdolls him away from whatever hit him. Maybe let the explosion do a small fixed amount of damage to him.

A mix that, depending on how much he shakes it(if we follow my idea of him mixing them on the go) can be thrown at an entity, marking it with glowing ink that causes the entity to glow and emit light for a time.

Or being able to make small temperature zones that act as a weaker ice crystaleyezer or heat-based equivalent. 

A mix that puts a goofy effect on the enemy, greatly reducing their sanity aura for a time.

There's all kinds of cool efffects you could make with these, from a lore perspective these would all be completely different from what Wilson himself intended, but ironically end up being useful in combat and survival. It would be a lot of fun imo.

 

[NoodlemanNed]

i think wilson players should just come to terms with reality. Wilson wasnt meant to be some crazy mad scientist, all youre doing here is setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Anis5240]

12 minutes ago, NoodlemanNed said:

i think wilson players should just come to terms with reality

how about no

[CrimsonStrider]

2 hours ago, Anis5240 said:

put that fault onto klei, would you. we could have in-depth science stuff, yet klei just make him more of the pun man.

What's to fault? That's one of the things I, and I'm sure others, love about his character. This post almost seems like you're being offended for Wilson and arguing on his behalf based on your expectations rather than enjoying him for what he is. 

Yes they could have done things differently with his tree and no, I don't personally agree with the idea giving him a bland tree helps give you a "base" experience because all you have to do for that is not use skill points.

I wouldn't care either way, but I do think Guille makes a really good point regarding a chemistry tab, and subsequently I think it would detract from Warly. So I'm not a fan of the idea so far. At least not with the current iteration of skill trees. 

You even make the same point I am. It's annoying when one type of skill bleeds over into a other characters toolkit. So I'd rather just something unique to him, or adjustments to what he already has.

 

[Anis5240]

2 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

This post almost seems like you're being offended for Wilson and arguing on his behalf based on your expectations rather than enjoying him for what he is. 

then I guess other Wilson players practically begging for Klei to fix his skill tree are just crickets, huh. Yes, I do expect the guy who had conquered the world once to do it again and have some actual skills to it, is that so hard to understand?

4 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

I wouldn't care either way

ok good. Let the ones who actually DO care about him suggest the perks that suit him well.

[CrimsonStrider]

The same loud and whiny posters does not a majority represent. 

How does me not caring about whether or not Klei wants to make a huge character directional change negate my opinions?

You're frustrated because you feel entitled and correct, when reality is that if you were either, changes would have already been made.  We're well over a year past his skill tree and nothing has been done. What does that say about all the suggestions of people that "do care"?

I do hope and expect something to happen at some point, but the suggestions related to Wilson are so all over the place. Make good suggestions, do it gracefully, and stop picking arguments and getting offended on Wilson's behalf.

 

[Anis5240]

7 minutes ago, CrimsonStrider said:

We're well over a year past his skill tree and nothing has been done. What does that say about all the suggestions of people that "do care"?

I will tell you what's up: Mr. JoeW himself had admitted how not great the older skill trees were, as said in this thread:

It's a small hope but it's still hope.

[Jakepeng99]

3 hours ago, CrimsonStrider said:

Regarding Wilson It's very clear that he loves science, with science being left intent ambiguous and almost analogous to magic. But the rest is unclear. Maybe we should give him gravity skills because he's made gravity based quotes. I know, let's give him a nuclear physics tabs because he knows what an atom is, and now he can create nukes.

A chemistry tree would make more sense on him than anyone else. Sure. Is it his passion? I never felt that way. I'll take your word for the video as I can't watch it, but the quotes just feel like general science jokes rather than a hint at something deeper.

More importantly, giving him those skills only encroaches on what Warly does. I'd rather them make Warly the cool character that makes "potions" and give him a good tree in that sense. 

Wilson was the one to invent all the survivor crafts, like the science machine and everything. He teaches the other survivors it (no way Wolfgang or Wurt found out how to make them by themselves). He is capable at inventing, but he is more realistic and doesn't keep them to himself. (His ego is probably inflayed by sharing his inventions with everyone, so its in character for him to share them)

I'd like Wilson to "teach" the other survivors chemistry, by having a new chemistry station for everybody to use. But he gets a few minor but appreciative benifits to them. For example, with the mad science station he could have increased change for better and multiple potions.

One of the potions would use beard hair as the limiting ingredient, indirectly buffing Wilson.