Everyone misses the point of Wilson when suggesting Skilltree stuff

[Jakepeng99]

He is meant to be simple and easy to understand. No complex mechanics. No major gameplay changes.

So much of what i see people suggest is over the top, and huge. If these were added, it would ruin the point and niche of Wilson as a character. He shouldnt have exclusive items.

I am really fond of Wilson's simpleness. The other characters nowdays are often too overwhelming or feature bloated. Wilson lets me focus on the world's tools rather than my character's tools, and the focus on the character tools nowdays is what i believe to be a big flaw with modern dst's characters.

 

I do believe Wilson's skilltree needs changed, its still bad, but mostly just:

▪Better transmutation rates. (3 rot for 1 manure, 1 manure for 2 rot ect)

▪More practical transmutations. (Most are kinda useless and rarely used, add more like the meat one)

▪Let light skills work on all light sources, condense them a little and add new abilities for Wilson to apply his light buffs to campfires and dwarf stars.

▪Condense beard skills.

▪More affinity transmutations. E.g transmute butterflies to moon moths, transmute petals to dark petals.

 

Wilson should never have any exclusive items, or over the top buffs. He should just improve existing item mechanics using his science knowledge, and have things like transmutations.

Turning the default character into another insane new character would just shrink the cast diversity and options. His current skilltree adds some extra gameplay to him to make him at least have a few new strategies and benifits to the team rather than being a burden.

Edited March 9, 2025 by Jakepeng99

[mkemal23]

10 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

He is meant to be simple and easy to understand. No complex mechanics. No major gameplay changes.

Yes.

11 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

So much of what i see people suggest is over the top, and huge. If these were added, it would ruin the point and niche of Wilson as a character. He shouldnt have exclusive items.

This is mostly because of the newer skill trees. Characters have no middle ground anymore. Everybody needs to have some kind of flashy ability.

13 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I do believe Wilson's skilltree needs changed, its still bad, but mostly just:

▪Better transmutation rates. (3 rot for 1 manure, 1 maure for 2 rot ect)

▪More practical transmutations. (Most are kinda useless and rarely used, add more like the meat one)

▪Let light skills work on all light sources, condense them a little and add new abilities for Wilson to apply his light buffs to campfires and dwarf stars.

▪Condense beard skills.

▪More affinity transmutations. E.g transmute butterflies to moon moths, transmute petals to dark petals.

Here's some more quick suggestions:

-Change torch tree to "Light" tree and make the buffs work on every body equipment like lanterns, mining helms etc. 

-Remove torch toss and replace it with someting like "%25 efficient refueling" 

-Remove Beefalo wool to beard hair crafting and replace it with something else.

-Better transmutation ratios, especially for the gem tree.

-Faster crafting speed for transmutation skills.

-Also an animation for the transmutation crafting would be nice.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, mkemal23 said:

This is mostly because of the newer skill trees. Characters have no middle ground anymore. Everybody needs to have some kind of flashy ability

Wes and Wilson are the ones that should be left out from that i believe.

1 hour ago, mkemal23 said:

Remove Beefalo wool to beard hair crafting and replace it with something else.

It would be fine if beard hair had more than one practical use.

[Anis5240]

1 hour ago, mkemal23 said:

Remove Beefalo wool to beard hair crafting

no, I like using it for early meat effigy

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

He is meant to be simple and easy to understand. No complex mechanics. No major gameplay changes.

he by himself did just that. others' skill trees give more exposition to their stories and lore, why couldn't Wilson have that too?

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

transmute butterflies to moon moths, transmute petals to dark petals.

this feels more like Wendy's hur hur

Edited March 8, 2025 by Anis5240

[RexySeven]

Wilson maybe should have skill tree buffed slightly with numbers but not anything significant (reworked). But tbh I can't see issues with him currenty.
Him being character with no abilities is kinda the entire gimmick of him and it probably how devs sees Wilson as too.
I wish he didn't have anything in his skill tree except lunar and shadow alignment.

[kikia]

On 2/9/2025 at 11:09 AM, kikia said:

it's completely reasonable for everyone to want their favorite characters to become more engaging. However, it's saddening and perplexing that some people are actively trying to prevent this. I've heard many arguments like "Wilson should remain a blank slate", but why? To those who think this way, I just want to say: You can simply choose not to engage with the skill tree. The existence of options shouldn't limit others' ability to enjoy deeper customization.

 

[hyoton123]

I think he should become the gunpowder guy.

[WilsonHiggs]

Idk he cant have molotov cocktails (like Wolfgang’s red gem dumbbell), a alchemist table instead of transmutating gold from plumb out of his @$$, some wagstaff toy like the thermal googles or the ones that shot and some stuff like the mad science machine from Halloween nights

He cwn be simple but have goofy and fun mad science stuff

[Guille6785]

I also physically recoil at the 3949058th thread suggesting that wilson get an alchemy tab or the ability to brew potions like he's some sort of goofy mad scientist and not just a jobless guy in his 30s

[Walrusst]

4 hours ago, Anis5240 said:

he by himself did just that. others' skill trees give more exposition to their stories and lore, why couldn't Wilson have that too?

To top this off, he is the canonical survivor for pretty much all the trailers/the inventor of pretty much everything that looks like rivited sheetmetal thats made out of the stone.

I just feel what would be good for Wilson given his current abilities (Ignoring resource bottlenecks with resource substitutions) what makes him fun to play is momentum without pushing the power spectrum. So my idea the other day came from combining his semi-canonical survivor of everything quirks with midgame momentum items from the prequel that are largely kept alive in the modern day by modders porting kleis earlier work.

6 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

He is meant to be simple and easy to understand. No complex mechanics. No major gameplay changes.

I've seen people play practically wereformless woodie, there are a lot of characters who are able to just be the naked simple character + because their abilities aren't forced on you. (Well, aside from the full moons.)
Hell, I've seen better player retention from stuff like willow simply because the intuitive nature of fire good, simply put, having something you clearly do is whats easy to understand, not "Hey with all the colors of gems you can clear the game without a full moon if you read the wiki and know where every color of gem is." The willow didn't encounter the shadow creatures first because fire sanity kept them well even before they learned the combat and realized what insight was, so they lived long enough to see other people deal with the shadows first and knew what to do.

The characters with clear focuses are easier to understand from having watched 3 waves of newbies simply because puzzling the core game mechanics takes a lot of time, effort, and repeatedly dying (+Community engagement.) There is a reason why the majority of players are split between wigfrid and wendy (An AOE minion character, and a tank who can do all resource management just fighting) AFAIK. The strong core gimmick is life support that makes people actually take time to learn the game, after they learn the hugely simplified subset of the game that is their character. This is sort of true for most slim characters these days.

Something on his plate (Even like, steel wool, using niter to change feather colors, fixing shells into otherwise uncraftable shell items, etc etc) would do a lot for him. I don't feel like he really fits the bar of whats an easy to pick up slim character anymore, since well, you have to know what the vital resources are as prior knowledge for his quirks to be useful, but this means he could be a great grim character is he got early access to more resources which are ultimately minor, yet also require bizarre quests to gather in significant quantities that can be useful.

Its just, this isn't single player, the 2-4 player designed enemy health pools scare people who are sitting at normal DS power levels, and pretty much every casual individual I saw pick up a character without strange new powers sort of vanished in two days to two weeks. (I'm saying like, they quit the first weekend or the second usually, not that I actually kept them grinding for weeks.)

Edited March 8, 2025 by Walrusst

[Jakepeng99]

45 minutes ago, Guille6785 said:

I also physically recoil at the 3949058th thread suggesting that wilson get an alchemy tab or the ability to brew potions like he's some sort of goofy mad scientist and not just a jobless guy in his 30s

I kinda wish potions were a proper mechanic and not hallowed knights exclusive.

The game needs more things that feel like magic, rather than being explained by magic.

[Anis5240]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

wilson get an alchemy tab or the ability to brew potions

oh wow how shocking to see the guy who enjoyed chemistry (even though he ain't good at it) and having people to suggest about said chemistry skill

truly unthinkable /s

[Walrusst]

1 hour ago, Guille6785 said:

I also physically recoil at the 3949058th thread suggesting that wilson get an alchemy tab or the ability to brew potions like he's some sort of goofy mad scientist and not just a jobless guy in his 30s

Honestly the easily manipulated unemployed guy who is gaslighting himselfs a hard area to get skills out of.

This is sort of why I've found what he has done (In the previous game,) the most interesting aspect we can draw on.
Since his ability to almost die hallucinating tropical landscapes while strapped to a chair is sort of half of all his screentime thus far.

Hey wait idea time, what if he prototyped random stuff and had panic attacks when he sat in chairs because you know, his reign.

Edited March 8, 2025 by Walrusst

[Jakepeng99]

4 hours ago, kikia said:

 

I aint trying to prevent him from becoming more interesting, i am trying ti prevent him from basically being turned into another character.

[Sunset_Liddel]

7 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

I also physically recoil at the 3949058th thread suggesting that wilson get an alchemy tab or the ability to brew potions like he's some sort of goofy mad scientist and not just a jobless guy in his 30s

i mean for a jobless guy in his 30s wilson is quite capable considering he created most of the stuff the survivors use and he is a excellent alchemist it seems so being able to do more wouldt be that crazy

Edited March 9, 2025 by Sunset_Liddel
i put excellent wrong

[Masked Koopa]

8 hours ago, Guille6785 said:

I also physically recoil at the 3949058th thread suggesting that wilson get an alchemy tab or the ability to brew potions like he's some sort of goofy mad scientist and not just a jobless guy in his 30s

That's applicable to a huge chunk of the cast of though. Washed up actress, a Fraud of a strongman, an untalented stage performer, a broke street mime, a lady with mental problems that grew up on the street, Some kid whos sister is dead, waltuh, and a chef who quit his job to look after his dementia ridden mother.

The common throughline with them is that they were granted something via the shadows, and their skill trees and/or reworks generally had them lean into these gifts in some form. The only survivors that seem genuinely exceptionally talented are Wanda, Wicker and Wagstaff, as unlike the other Human survivors they weren't just handed their powers and weren't just given a guidebook on how to do super magic definitely no downsides I swear.

Hell if anything Wilson is pretty resourceful, considering he invented most of the boating gear and was the one to be able to survive adventure mode and free Maxwell.

[Echsrick]

7 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I aint trying to prevent him from becoming more interesting, i am trying ti prevent him from basically being turned into another character.

so you hate wilson?

[GamePlayer42]

2 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

so you hate wilson?

you are REACHING cuh

[Jakepeng99]

12 hours ago, Anis5240 said:

oh wow how shocking to see the guy who enjoyed chemistry (even though he ain't good at it) and having people to suggest about said chemistry skill

truly unthinkable /s

Add chemistry stuff for all survivors, and make Wilson slightly better at it.

3 hours ago, Echsrick said:

so you hate wilson?

You Missed the part that I play and enjoy Wilson.

[Walrusst]

I mean in that case nothing in the game really could take him away from you unless he lost torch toss, his beard fridge, or klei did something truely insane with the base kit if you like him now.
I haven't seen anyone saying his base kit could change, and a lot of the wilsonalikes still are stuck with base kits that are pretty dry with optional side activities and skill points that make them stronger in the long run.

All the plain base means is you can make the optional side activities with the character have the potential for sauce.
Nothing will ever stop you from eating spaghetti plain, even if other people are cooking Pasta Al Assasinia for some spice. There isn't anything wrong with it. Hell, if we gave Wilson some spice I hope we would structure the skill tree in a way where he can't take ALL of the spice, and has to make a choice on his flavor, in addition to just being able to not pick a spice if he so chooses.

You don't have to fight people getting what they want if you are still able to keep what you want.

[Anis5240]

21 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

You Missed the part that I play and enjoy Wilson.

ok if you do enjoy Wilson then just play the basekit, no skill trees whatsoever. People who are invested in his skill tree want to see him grow as a character (hey, why else other characters are allowed to do such while Wilson can't to you?), not just a blank slate.

[Jakepeng99]

35 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

ok if you do enjoy Wilson then just play the basekit, no skill trees whatsoever. People who are invested in his skill tree want to see him grow as a character (hey, why else other characters are allowed to do such while Wilson can't to you?), not just a blank slate.

But i like his current skilltree direction? Why am i now being forced to have no skills all of the sudden? I like using his skilltree. (Still needs tweaks)

Removing Wilsons purpouse of being the default basic character removes an essential aspect from the game.

Some people might not want to do what the other characters do. Only reason Wilson is underpowered compared to the rest of the cast is because everyone gets op stuff while their downsides matter less and less. (Back then, Wilsons's main upside was that he had no downsides)

 

But, if balance "doesn't matter", then it is good to have an "underpowered" character like Wilson who serves his purpouse well as a default character without any major distractions from a massive kit. Every other character changes the game somewhat drastically nowadays, we need a "default" character. The upsides from his skilltree make him feel less like a slightly better Wes.

It would be like turning Wes from a challenge character to a normal strong character like everyone else. It would ruin his purpouse, and just shrink the diversity of playstyles the cast has to offer (in the case of doing this to Wilson too).

 

 

 

15 hours ago, hyoton123 said:

I think he should become the gunpowder guy.

Also this is funny referance, he should be able to transmute eggs into rotten eggs. (4 eggs and 1 rot for 4 rotten eggs)

Edited March 9, 2025 by Jakepeng99

[Anis5240]

13 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Still needs tweaks

The second you said this, you practically agreeing with others who want him to be better.

14 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

But, if balance "doesn't matter"

Klei literally throwing balance under the bus the second they made Wigfrid being able to eat goodies.

14 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Some people might not want to do what the other characters do.

And that's literally what the base original DS Wilson is. Which you know, still can be accessed via not dabbling in the skill points whatsoever.

15 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Removing Wilsons purpouse of being the default basic character removes an essential aspect from the game.

???????? The second Klei made him have a skill tree, he no longer counts as a default character.

[Walrusst]

19 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

But, if balance "doesn't matter", then it is good to have an "underpowered" character like Wilson who serves his purpouse well as a default character without any major distractions from a massive kit. Every other character changes the game somewhat drastically nowadays, we need a "default" character. The upsides from his skilltree make him feel less like a slightly better Wes.

I mean it sounds like you want a set of perks that smooth out progression without pushing on the power levels of the game up at all.
I really wonder where we saw heavy experimentation with those sorts of ideas.

Edited March 9, 2025 by Walrusst

[Anis5240]

17 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

It would be like turning Wes from a challenge character to a normal strong character like everyone else. It would ruin his purpouse, and just shrink the diversity of playstyles the cast has to offer (in the case of doing this to Wilson too).

You do realize Wilson's ranking in this site has gone down further and further? Before skill trees, he's often at the 3rd place, with Wigfrid and Wendy on the other 2.