Were Wendy's Nerfs appropriate?

[Peasant]

20 minutes ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Strawman. Never said it was OP. It's just fair. Counterpoint use potions.

Yeah, so fair, when Abigail dies you only need to spam a potion made of telltale heart which needs 40 hp to craft, wait for 7 seconds and she's in roughly full hp again, and can take about 1 hit by most bosses before geting back inside her little flower, while Maxwell needs to consume 1/5 of a nightmare fuel and 30 sanity limit which recovers when the duelist dies to resummon one of his duelists. How's that being fair for Maxwell?

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, BalkanCockroach said:

Which also removes his core aspect: transformation

It won't.

By using Panflute, weremoose portrait, dumplings.

[Echsrick]

if people think wendy is like wes, lets nerf wendy some more, make her have 75 health, faster hunger drain, slower works, cant talk to plants, cant talk in general, overheads and freezes faster...and all the other wes stuff

[SilverSpoon]

1 minute ago, Echsrick said:

if people think wendy is like wes, lets nerf wendy some more, make her have 75 health, faster hunger drain, slower works, cant talk to plants, cant talk in general, overheads and freezes faster...and all the other wes stuff

Damage multiplier x0.75 Wilson can be even more boring than Wes.

[WilsonHiggs]

22 hours ago, Steorra said:

Klei and Forumites here:

Victory by spending resources for Walter or other characters - Okay.

Victory by spending resources for Wendy with aAbby - How dare you? 

Victory by spending resources for Wendy (Wes) without Abby - Okay.

 

Such simple flexible standard.

Forumiters:

Characters having impactful downsides - how dare you?

[SilverSpoon]

14 hours ago, Koomin said:

And for your Walter point- neutralizing bosses is bad.  Saying that Wendy should be able to do it because you think another character can is not a good argument.  I didn't like the slow stacking, and surprise surprise it is stated to be getting a change by the developers because they also don't like characters neutralizing things.  So there goes the weird Walter comparison argument.

Heh… if the Slow-Down Round Spam Cheese goes away, that’s fair ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[Steorra]

43 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Forumiters:

Characters having impactful downsides - how dare you?

Yes, I agree. See reference: stackable slowing effect of Walter - once you disabled all your enemies by slowing their speed 70%+ then you have no downside of getting hits.

48 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

if people think wendy is like wes, lets nerf wendy some more, make her have 75 health, faster hunger drain, slower works, cant talk to plants, cant talk in general, overheads and freezes faster...and all the other wes stuff

Let nerf Wortox first, they never was a character means to have AoE. Adding AoE ability to who welas never mean to have AoE only erode Wendy's character identity.

[Soul7k]

On 2/24/2025 at 12:52 AM, Cheggf said:

If Wolfgang did 10x damage would nerfing it to only 5x be too big of a nerf? Blanket statements like that don't really work. If something is super overtuned then lowering it by half if not even more is completely necessary. 

yes it would, but go ahead and answer your own question i guess. breaking something in half isn't tweaking its gutting there is a difference and I don't think it needs to be explained. also Wolfgang is not the best example to use here since he is commonly the metric used for balance and adjusting the metric would open up a whole other can of worms

[WereBruhver]

1 hour ago, Soul7k said:

yes it would, but go ahead and answer your own question i guess. breaking something in half isn't tweaking its gutting there is a difference and I don't think it needs to be explained.

Weremoose self regeneration got cut in half during Woodie's skill tree beta. 

[Soul7k]

1 hour ago, WereBruhver said:

Weremoose self regeneration got cut in half during Woodie's skill tree beta. 

and I wasn't happy about that either and posted my opinion then

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, Soul7k said:

and I wasn't happy about that either and posted my opinion then

But it's not broken. Weremoose is still the most better skill of the game.

I have to say I could understand the original argument, but weremoose is not a suitable example for it.

Yes, weremoose is still strong after the half nerfing.

[WereBruhver]

So is sisturn III. The only thing they should do is make it so the reduce healing only happens when abigail is being hit by a boss. 

[Catuna_]

On 2/23/2025 at 11:32 AM, SilverSpoon said:

Walter can slow down many bosses to a point where they are slower than a spider by Slow-Down Round Spam. This seems to about neutralize boss for Walter. Slow-Down Rounds would slow down enemy for 30 seconds with one hit so not difficult to use. Furthermore, Sticky Rounds and Icky Rounds can slow them down even further.

I think that this post was mainly built up from misleading information, and I want to clarify this by going over the cases that OP mentions for the sake of avoiding misinformation.

Ancient guardian:

• It's faster and cheaper to ram Ancient guardian into pillars as expected, because he will stop moving meaning that you can also stop moving to attack, and that he's a perfect target for cursed rounds which are Walter's highest DPS ammo.
• You're in a rather small arena, where pillars will fall out of the sky and light goes out a lot. Outrunning AG becomes less and less appealing as a result.
• Phase 2 Ancient guardian will still jump at the player, and summon shadow tentacles. Both are unaffected by slowing effects, the post fails to mention this.

(Armored) Bearger:

• Any character can use Bearger and his armored variant to chop trees, which means that you will get the benefits of killing bearger, treeguards and chopping wood all at once for the cheap cheap cost of literally nothing vs wasting ammo on him.
• Armored bearger can be used to fight bosses like Bee Queen and Dragonfly (he will win lol) which means that the player can get much more benefits from him without needing to waste ammo. You can pit him up against bosses for no cost.

Klaus:
I'm genuinely not sure what you're trying to showcase here, Klaus' fight in general breaks from the player having ranged attacks whether or not you use slow-down rounds. You can boat cheese him, or attack him in and out of his aggro range all without needing to fire a single slowing pellet. In the video, Klaus is literally catching up to Walter since his bite attack is unaffected by slows which also kind of defeats the whole purpose.

Nightmare Werepig:

It is literally faster to not apply slowing effects to Werepig because you get more attacks off that way, causing him to get knocked down and stunned means the fight goes by much faster. You are, once again, spending more resources in exchange for a similarly long/longer fight. With literally the same level of effort, if not more.

Dragonfly and Bee Queen:

These are bosses that are otherwise always in your face, and it's hard to keep distance off of them otherwise. I think that this slowing effect is very intended and was probably made with the intent of remedying boss fights like these for Walter.

 

I really don't understand this section of the post, because it genuinely just feels like "Oh! Look guys, the ammo that slows enemies down by 70% is slowing enemies down by 70%!" rather than actually demonstrating how/if Walter's slingshot is ACTUALLY breaking these bosses to become effortless/remove the need for kiting completely. 

I could go on and on about the way that Wendy trivializes any form of non-boss combat, I could point at a video of Abigail's scare command allowing you to kill a bishop before it can attack, I could point at a video of Abigail killing a horde of 50 beefalo without Wendy having to click the attack button at all, I could point at a video of Abigail being used to pacify mobs like Bearger literally allowing you to kill them without a melee weapon or without them ever dealing damage to you or Abigail (see this video:  https://medal.tv/games/dont-starve-together/clips/jM2A3wQ9R093jMI_E?invite=cr-MSw4MTYsMTYyMDg4ODY3LA) I could go on and on about the way some characters if not all of them trivialize some part of the game, and I feel like bickering over this really just causes characters to become a lot less unique and fun just out of fear that there's some new cheese ignoring that there's already established ways of cheesing a boss for cheaper, or in this case, for literally no cost.

[Steorra]

2 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

Ancient guardian:

• It's faster and cheaper to ram Ancient guardian into pillars as expected, because he will stop moving meaning that you can also stop moving to attack, and that he's a perfect target for cursed rounds which are Walter's highest DPS ammo.
• You're in a rather small arena, where pillars will fall out of the sky and light goes out a lot. Outrunning AG becomes less and less appealing as a result.
• Phase 2 Ancient guardian will still jump at the player, and summon shadow tentacles. Both are unaffected by slowing effects, the post fails to mention this

Your argument here was lacking a point - Slowing effect makes AG stuns faaaar more longer since AG's stun is decided by its' dashing time before it stunned. 

4 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

Dragonfly and Bee Queen:

These are bosses that are otherwise always in your face, and it's hard to keep distance off of them otherwise.

Not exactly. Dfly is completely different than beequeen, since dfly has faster speed and has ability to attack you while moving. BQ has slower speed and has no ability attacking while moving.

In short - BQ is easier to handle for Walter than dfly when you using the slowing effect. Though, how the difference of the "easier" depends on the player.

8 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

I could point at a video of Abigail killing a horde of 50 beefalo

The most difficult thing is the problem of your CPU of your computer. (Joking. But I hope Klei would fix these latency)

[Catuna_]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

Your argument here was lacking a point - Slowing effect makes AG stuns faaaar more longer since AG's stun is decided by its' dashing time before it stunned. 

Meaning you're still ramming it into pillars as intended, further solidifying that there's literally nothing wrong. You're fighting the boss like intended.
I was comparing fighting it how the post showcases it vs just ramming it into pillars.

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Not exactly. Dfly is completely different than beequeen, since dfly has faster speed and has ability to attack you while moving. BQ has slower speed and has no ability attacking while moving.

In short - BQ is easier to handle for Walter than dfly when you using the slowing effect. Though, how the difference of the "easier" depends on the player.

Bee Queen will actively pursue the target in her first and second phase. For pre-skill tree Walter (and even Skill tree Walter without slows) this makes the fight take a lot of time because you can't get many attacks off. You could try to kite her, but then her grumbles would catch up to you and you'd have to stop moving pretty soon.
Phase 3/4, she won't attack you; but at that point there's genuinely no need for slow-down rounds unless you really want to as grumble bees give you many more openings to attack her regardless of their speed. Plus, you can just kill them with AoE without needing to use up purple gems or anything of the sort.

[somethin]

Honestly I think the slow rounds are kind of a trap lol

You're wasting resources on boss so they are easier to fight, but since you're already ranged it's kind of a redundant thing 

[Dingle]

Having talk about Walter take over a Wendy thread is a pretty crazy role reversal.

[Catuna_]

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Having talk about Walter take over a Wendy thread is a pretty crazy role reversal.

I just don't really want false or misleading misinformation spread about Walter considering that people are suddenly very demanding of nerfs, with a lot of points being made in bad faith

[Dingle]

2 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

I just don't really want false or misleading misinformation spread about Walter considering that people are suddenly very demanding of nerfs, with a lot of points being made in bad faith

Yeah, I wonder why. Very mysterious.

Lol.

"Nerf Walter, Buff Wendy!" is an even more crazy role reversal.

[Mysterious box]

1 hour ago, Catuna_ said:

I just don't really want false or misleading misinformation spread about Walter considering that people are suddenly very demanding of nerfs, with a lot of points being made in bad faith

Most of the people making these threads have outright come out and said they were doing it because they were upset about Wendy getting nerfs some even multiple times so I imagine the devs aren't taking most of these seriously.

Still this beta has impressed me as it's the first time I've used the block function on these forums and I've definitely had some heated debates here in the past.

[SilverSpoon]

3 hours ago, Catuna_ said:

I just don't really want false or misleading misinformation spread about Walter considering that people are suddenly very demanding of nerfs, with a lot of points being made in bad faith

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Most of the people making these threads have outright come out and said they were doing it because they were upset about Wendy getting nerfs some even multiple times so I imagine the devs aren't taking most of these seriously.

To be clear, it is completely wrong to assume that people are asking for a Walter nerf from "bad faith" - they are simply frustrated to unfairly what something allowed for one character is not allowed for the other.

To quote again from my other post:

Quote

Also, I'm a big believer in "just don't use it" so I think it's Okay to keep both. However if we discard one it must discard the other too by same reason, it is unfair to leave only one.

 

[Crimson Hollow]

23 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

To be clear, it is completely wrong to assume that people are asking for a Walter nerf from "bad faith" - they are simply frustrated to unfairly what something allowed for one character is not allowed for the other.

 

So you basically admitted that you are asking for walter nerfs because you guys are "frustrated by the unfairness", something that doesn't even concern walter like at all. ty for honesty.

[Mysterious box]

51 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

To be clear, it is completely wrong to assume that people are asking for a Walter nerf from "bad faith" - they are simply frustrated to unfairly what something allowed for one character is not allowed for the other.

To quote again from my other post:

I didn't assume anything it was speficially said in the past multiple times across multiple threads that it was infact the reason if that has changed that's another matter I'm simply stating facts.