Walter's Tree feels like it has a bit too many requirements to unlock certain skills

[Cvmoote]

The New Woby Courier skill is great, but it is disproportionate to the other skills needing 2 skills to unlock, while Courier needs 3. I think if the requirement was 2 it would be a lot better.

The slingshot skill tree feels basically essential since close combat is heavily discouraged with Walter's sanity mechanic, and these add ons to the sling shot make it a lot more viable. It feels too many of our points are used up on this because of that and I feel the first skill point that simply unlocks the kit could just be added into the other skills or made as a base kit craft.

It also is kind of dissapointing that the actual Sling Upgrade of the slingshot only has the pig skin and the Cattail sling, which don't really add that much range, when there could be a late game variant to offer in to match the other two upgrades (Scrappy Frame, Void Grip/Royal Jelly Grip).

 

[Radicaljoe]

21 minutes ago, Cvmoote said:

It also is kind of dissapointing that the actual Sling Upgrade of the slingshot only has the pig skin and the Cattail sling, which don't really add that much range, when there could be a late game variant to offer in to match the other two upgrades (Scrappy Frame, Void Grip/Royal Jelly Grip).

 

There is, feed the cattail band to a shadow rift mimic and kill it.

[YouKnowWho142]

Just now, Radicaljoe said:

There is, feed the cattail band to a shadow rift mimic and kill it.

to be fair, the average player would never know this and not even think to do this, even just the method to get possessed shadow atriums is pretty obscure

kind of one of the big gripes I've always had with DST in general

[_mylilsunshine_]

if you want everything, then you're asking walter to be and do everything, which is not exactly fair.

- ammo and slingshot branch is very much combat-oriented

- scouting branch is for utility that helps with walter's survival

- woby branch is for utility that helps with walter's task and exploration

let's see what it means to have most if not all perks:

Spoiler

- walter gets 30 ammo/craft, while having endgame ammo like horror and icky round (assuming you are shadow-aligned)

- walter gets all upgrades for his slingshot, including jelly/void grip, possessed cat band, and two frames. putting his dps on par with endgame melee, and amazing utility from thulecite frame

=

- walter gets a 36hp/10sanity healing item, better efficiency on all other healing items (glands, salves, poultices)

- walter gets 3 free, mobile drying rack

- walter gets a non-perishable, 28 hunger point food item for woby (stacks up to 40), at a 1:2 rate from monster jerky, that you can make with your free racks

- walter has rope crafting efficiency (2 grass/1)

- walter gets a mobile campfire for cooking and storytelling, with enhanced sanity gain

- walter gets to send woby to deposit items anywhere, anytime

=

- walter gets a rider beefalo

- walter gets a helper (mining/chopping, gathering)

- walter gets a dash with woby, that can either gives you an invincibility frame and skip spaces, or turbo boost you

it's kinda like in pokemon where you have 4-move syndrome, you want more than 5 for your pokemon, but limited to 4.

i see walter's kit as combat - utility - survival. you can have 2, but not all 3. and i saw someone not taking the ammo branch and advanced slingshot upgrade (just the basic perk), allowing them to take all of the scouting and woby branch perks. that's a completely valid playstyle. asking for combat perks as well would be too ambitious, if not greedy

[Radicaljoe]

27 minutes ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

to be fair, the average player would never know this and not even think to do this, even just the method to get possessed shadow atriums is pretty obscure

kind of one of the big gripes I've always had with DST in general

Oh yeah definitely, klei had to tell us about it on stream because noone knew it was even a thing about a week into the beta.

But, at the same time That's just kinda how dst is. It's a knowledge game, and a lot of that knowledge is found by watching guides or interacting with the community.

Though, I wonder what the average player is able to do. Because not saying they won't, but I'm unsure if they'd even make it to afw to start rifts.

[Walrusst]

2 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

Oh yeah definitely, klei had to tell us about it on stream because noone knew it was even a thing about a week into the beta.

But, at the same time That's just kinda how dst is. It's a knowledge game, and a lot of that knowledge is found by watching guides or interacting with the community.

Though, I wonder what the average player is able to do. Because not saying they won't, but I'm unsure if they'd even make it to afw to start rifts.

one of my newbies was possessed to do nothing but try shoving the suspicious marble into everything they could they were on the road like a bloodhound despite clearly having no clue what they were trying to do.

Sure half the time they would deposit a piece at the feet of dragonfly, but they were like a bloodhound looking for bad ideas that will turn a unarmored wendy into long pork.

[Gashzer]

1 hour ago, Cvmoote said:

The New Woby Courier skill is great, but it is disproportionate to the other skills needing 2 skills to unlock, while Courier needs 3. I think if the requirement was 2 it would be a lot better.

The slingshot skill tree feels basically essential since close combat is heavily discouraged with Walter's sanity mechanic, and these add ons to the sling shot make it a lot more viable. It feels too many of our points are used up on this because of that and I feel the first skill point that simply unlocks the kit could just be added into the other skills or made as a base kit craft.

It also is kind of dissapointing that the actual Sling Upgrade of the slingshot only has the pig skin and the Cattail sling, which don't really add that much range, when there could be a late game variant to offer in to match the other two upgrades (Scrappy Frame, Void Grip/Royal Jelly Grip).

 

The entire slingshot tree isn't essential, basic mods and grip are the only 2 you need to max dps for slingshot. That saves you 2 skill points to use elsewhere.

Pioneer panache and first aid skills makes Walter have a pretty high survivability in melee, beyond Wilson atleast so he's definitely not just a ranged character now if you don't want him to be.

[Walrusst]

57 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

The entire slingshot tree isn't essential, basic mods and grip are the only 2 you need to max dps for slingshot. That saves you 2 skill points to use elsewhere.

Pioneer panache and first aid skills makes Walter have a pretty high survivability in melee, beyond Wilson atleast so he's definitely not just a ranged character now if you don't want him to be.

Its really sort of weird, because the right clicks do have a synergy with the windup slingshots, but because there is only the pre-royal jelly silk grip and the basically post game void grip, it makes it so only in extreme lategame and extreme early game do the frames affect the big ticket numbers.

Since the scrap shot charged attacks will spool up the silk/void frames last I checked, letting you get slightly more damage early on and later on, but for almost the whole middle of the game that synergy is irrelevant since there are easier to use and/or stronger grips than the silk grip.

But, if you don't rush bee queen technically the only silk grip + fancy frame actually outdamages the glommer grip at least.

So there is a bit of choice for super early game (Non raid boss compliant) and super late game (Post rifts) here, but things are messy if you just want to speed run or are pre-rift cause then you are funneled into the easiest to use choices because of for how long of the game the jelly grip stays optimal.

[Dyzrespect]

2 hours ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

i see walter's kit as combat - utility - survival. you can have 2, but not all 3. and i saw someone not taking the ammo branch and advanced slingshot upgrade (just the basic perk), allowing them to take all of the scouting and woby branch perks. that's a completely valid playstyle. asking for combat perks as well would be too ambitious, if not greedy

When the reality is you will just be using the celestial portal to swap the ammo efficiency trait and Woby Here, Woby There every time you need to craft ammo, this becomes a lot less compelling of an argument.

[_mylilsunshine_]

16 minutes ago, Dyzrespect said:

When the reality is you will just be using the celestial portal to swap the ammo efficiency trait and Woby Here, Woby There every time you need to craft ammo, this becomes a lot less compelling of an argument.

when you bring character/tree swapping into the argument, none of the survivors are compelling. warly isn't even a real character.

you choose how you want to play, and if you intend to tree swap, then the original argument (less point requirement) is moot anyway.

if you don't want tree swap as a bandage to the point "problem", then you'll have to make peace with the fact that you can't have everything at once, none of the other survivors do.

i love wurt and her skill tree, if i could take every single perk i would have, but i can't. so i adapt my playstyle and pick what i need, not what i want. and i have a lot of fun with her.

[Crimson Hollow]

26 minutes ago, Dyzrespect said:

When the reality is you will just be using the celestial portal to swap the ammo efficiency trait and Woby Here, Woby There every time you need to craft ammo, this becomes a lot less compelling of an argument.

This is a totally valid playstyle yes, but I don't think a lot of ppl would go through this hassle... just to save some ammo materials.

These materials are quite abundant in single player, and in multiplayer I guess moon rock and purple gems are probably already on high demand....

[Steorra]

8 hours ago, YouKnowWho142 said:

to be fair, the average player would never know this and not even think to do this, even just the method to get possessed shadow atriums is pretty obscure

kind of one of the big gripes I've always had with DST in general

This is another reason why I think the low level bands need to be adjusted for having competitiveness with the frames. Or most people would just ignore the bands modding skill.

[Dyzrespect]

7 hours ago, Crimson Hollow said:

This is a totally valid playstyle yes, but I don't think a lot of ppl would go through this hassle... just to save some ammo materials.

These materials are quite abundant in single player, and in multiplayer I guess moon rock and purple gems are probably already on high demand....

I mean are you really gonna spend 3x the dreadstone/icker/pure horror/pure brilliance doing that, or are you going to spend 1 purple gem and 1 moonrock (or 2 purple gem and 2 moonrock).
You can anecdotally say "a lot of ppl" will do something but A. it doesn't mean it's true and B. doesn't change the reality of the situation

[Crimson Hollow]

9 minutes ago, Dyzrespect said:

I mean are you really gonna spend 3x the dreadstone/icker/pure horror/pure brilliance doing that, or are you going to spend 1 purple gem and 1 moonrock (or 2 purple gem and 2 moonrock).
You can anecdotally say "a lot of ppl" will do something but A. it doesn't mean it's true and B. doesn't change the reality of the situation

Right, cause neither of these was my intention. Just sharing what i have seen in some multiplayer servers.

Also for icker and pure horror... I believe once you open to the rifts there will be an endless supply of them, and they are not really hard to get. Cant say the same for lunar, though.

[Chewabacca]

8 hours ago, Dyzrespect said:

When the reality is you will just be using the celestial portal to swap the ammo efficiency trait and Woby Here, Woby There every time you need to craft ammo, this becomes a lot less compelling of an argument.

It's a stretch to assume that most people will be doing this. I doubt they'll be making an idol and walking up to the portal every single time they want to craft more ammo. Beyond that, most people don't metagame like that naturally. You might see a few people doing this but it's so inconvenient that I can't imagine it will be anywhere close to the majority of Walters.

[Dyzrespect]

1 minute ago, Chewabacca said:

It's a stretch to assume that most people will be doing this. I doubt they'll be making an idol and walking up to the portal every single time they want to craft more ammo. Beyond that, most people don't metagame like that naturally. You might see a few people doing this but it's so inconvenient that I can't imagine it will be anywhere close to the majority of Walters.

In the situation where you want to use Woby here, Woby there, this is the path of least resistance endgame. Your other options are to A. be unable to use your slingshot because it has a band on it by getting rid of advanced bands. B. lose the ability to use the enhanced dash on Woby. or C. give up and don't use Woby Here, Woby There.

Swapping off one trait quickly is the least inconvenient way overall.
Sure, do most people not make it to endgame, yea, does it mean the tree should be designed in a way to inconvenience people who do? Up to you ig.

[Chewabacca]

8 minutes ago, Dyzrespect said:

In the situation where you want to use Woby here, Woby there, this is the path of least resistance endgame. Your other options are to A. be unable to use your slingshot because it has a band on it by getting rid of advanced bands. B. lose the ability to use the enhanced dash on Woby. or C. give up and don't use Woby Here, Woby There.

Swapping off one trait quickly is the least inconvenient way overall.
Sure, do most people not make it to endgame, yea, does it mean the tree should be designed in a way to inconvenience people who do? Up to you ig.

Why is getting rid of advanced bands or not taking it at all not the path of least resistance, especially compared to the tedious process of using the Celestial Portal over and over again?

[Y0sH]

Extremely unpopular opinion seemingly: I think the skill requirements in his Skilltree is fine as is. Like stated earlier Walter has a sort of Combat, Survival and Utility aspect to his Skilltree. Having to be able to take the most impactful skills from all three of these aspects seems fairly strong. For some of his more stronger skills a bigger "commitment" to said skill is good to have.

[Dyzrespect]

Just now, Chewabacca said:

Why is getting rid of advanced bands or not taking it at all not the path of least resistance, especially compared to the tedious process of using the Celestial Portal over and over again?

You're saying yourself that it is tedious so I don't see what you're arguing. Plus it's not even that hard to stockpile like 50,000 of each ammo then swap off, so it's not horribly tedious, it's just pointlessly tedious.

You already don't take bands till the endgame, there is no reason to take bands until you get the literal final band because increased range does almost nothing (esp since you can already make the pigskin one for free), and the final band conserves your ammo. So the literal ONLY thing requiring 3 points for WH,WT does, is make you do tedious crap endgame if you want to use it.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Dyzrespect said:

You're saying yourself that it is tedious so I don't see what you're arguing. Plus it's not even that hard to stockpile like 50,000 of each ammo then swap off, so it's not horribly tedious, it's just pointlessly tedious.

You already don't take bands till the endgame, there is no reason to take bands until you get the literal final band because increased range does almost nothing (esp since you can already make the pigskin one for free), and the final band conserves your ammo. So the literal ONLY thing requiring 3 points for WH,WT does, is make you do tedious crap endgame if you want to use it.

Yeah I've swung back and forth on this one but more I think about it the more okay with it I am. The only truly required branch is the custom branch as the slingshot is bad without it. While the left branch is also good it's mostly focused on quality of life skills rather than skills you desperately need.

[Chewabacca]

Just now, Dyzrespect said:

You're saying yourself that it is tedious so I don't see what you're arguing. Plus it's not even that hard to stockpile like 50,000 of each ammo then swap off, so it's not horribly tedious, it's just pointlessly tedious.

You already don't take bands till the endgame, there is no reason to take bands until you get the literal final band because increased range does almost nothing (esp since you can already make the pigskin one for free), and the final band conserves your ammo. So the literal ONLY thing requiring 3 points for WH,WT does, is make you do tedious crap endgame if you want to use it.

I'm saying that it's tedious to the point of it being not even worth considering re:how his tree is designed, not that we will inevitably have to do this. I still don't understand how bands not being useful until endgame means that it's too punishing to drop them and take a survival skill instead.

[Dyzrespect]

1 minute ago, Chewabacca said:

I'm saying that it's tedious to the point of it being not even worth considering re:how his tree is designed, not that we will inevitably have to do this. I still don't understand how bands not being useful until endgame means that it's too punishing to drop them and take a survival skill instead.

Yo DO drop them and take a survival skill instead... until you go through the trouble of getting the possessed band, then you now have unlocked the dilemma of

a. Don't use the band I just spent hours crafting and going to the labyrinth for or

b. give up WH,WT or Woby's Dash

c. bulk craft ammo then use celestial portal

That's it, that's all I'm saying.