Steorra Posted February 15, 2025 Share Posted February 15, 2025 Spoiler I guess the infinity range thing should be a feature of rubber bands but not of frame itself? I believe that some particular frames should only give the ability of charging shot, but with limited range. Rubber bands should give range bonus to both normal attack and charging shots. This would makes the rubber modding become more meaningful. Spoiler I hide the original message since something was wrong. But I now think the bands need extra effect for being competitive to the frames. Or people would just ignored the band modding in early game. I hide the second message here again. Since I now think whatever to increase bands' perk or decrease the range of frame special attack is all reasonable for the balance purpose. The extra range of the special attack of the frame is a bit strange when its' range is far more longer than your normal attack. I know to let "charging" attack could shoot a bit longer is reasonable. But was it beyond the line? I personally think the range of the charge shoot was a bit strong for current stage. Maybe we should nerf it a little and buff the range bonus of bands in someway? The whole idea of the bands - frames balance is: 1. Decreasing the range of charge shoot a little, buff the range bonus of all bands. 2. Adding shot-gun effect for some particular frame for creating a new playstyle of Walter, which aiming to encourage players to interact with old bosses by melee form. 3. Making the slowing effect being unstackable, but making every special effect from rounds being stackable for per shoot of the shot-gun modded slingshot. Balance the slowing effect by making it become a privilege of melee playstyle. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164099-bands-frames-rebalance-idea-nerf-the-range-of-charge-shoot-buff-the-range-bonus-of-bands-adding-shot-gun-effect-to-frame-for-encourage-a-high-reward-melee-playstyle/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyzrespect Posted February 15, 2025 Share Posted February 15, 2025 There is already very little benefit to the scrappy frame besides ammo conservation; the range and ability to aim the shot are the only benefits. It is already far from "infinite range", it barely goes a full screen and you can fail to hit targets you can see already. Lowering the range to as far as you can shoot without it makes it useless over just holding F. Making Walter less intuitive/convenient to use does not make him more balanced, removing range on charged shots does not eliminate any cheese that he cannot already do without it. Also regarding rubber bands, there could indeed be more benefit to them, perhaps introducing a spread shot or some other mechanic besides firing range, as shooting from far away more often than not just leads to more misses, but taking a feature away from frames to add to bands doesn't really solve that issue. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164099-bands-frames-rebalance-idea-nerf-the-range-of-charge-shoot-buff-the-range-bonus-of-bands-adding-shot-gun-effect-to-frame-for-encourage-a-high-reward-melee-playstyle/#findComment-1797557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steorra Posted February 15, 2025 Author Share Posted February 15, 2025 11 minutes ago, Dyzrespect said: It is already far from "infinite range", it barely goes a full screen and you can fail to hit targets you can see already. Lowering the range to as far as you can shoot without it makes it useless over just holding F. I'm sorry. I was thought it was infinity. Then maybe don't change anything to frames, but only give an extra bonus to rubbers? The current rubber is lack of competitiveness. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164099-bands-frames-rebalance-idea-nerf-the-range-of-charge-shoot-buff-the-range-bonus-of-bands-adding-shot-gun-effect-to-frame-for-encourage-a-high-reward-melee-playstyle/#findComment-1797560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyzrespect Posted February 15, 2025 Share Posted February 15, 2025 2 minutes ago, Steorra said: The current rubber is lack of competitiveness. To be honest, with Woby Here, Woby There added, you cannot take all 3 slingshot upgrade paths and still get all capstone traits, so I don't mind that bands are only useful at the end with possessed band ammo conservation. By necessity you will have to give up a capstone in one of the other lines to take advanced bands. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164099-bands-frames-rebalance-idea-nerf-the-range-of-charge-shoot-buff-the-range-bonus-of-bands-adding-shot-gun-effect-to-frame-for-encourage-a-high-reward-melee-playstyle/#findComment-1797563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steorra Posted February 15, 2025 Author Share Posted February 15, 2025 13 minutes ago, Dyzrespect said: To be honest, with Woby Here, Woby There added, you cannot take all 3 slingshot upgrade paths and still get all capstone traits, so I don't mind that bands are only useful at the end with possessed band ammo conservation. By necessity you will have to give up a capstone in one of the other lines to take advanced bands. I don't think that's a balance design tbh. I hope all 3 modding parts has their own advantage. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164099-bands-frames-rebalance-idea-nerf-the-range-of-charge-shoot-buff-the-range-bonus-of-bands-adding-shot-gun-effect-to-frame-for-encourage-a-high-reward-melee-playstyle/#findComment-1797570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyzrespect Posted February 15, 2025 Share Posted February 15, 2025 1 minute ago, Steorra said: I don't think that's a balance design tbh. I hope all 3 modding parts has their own advantage. I agree, I think specifically a pellet velocity upgrade with each band would be perfect, making the shots more likely to hit with the extended range (as even with auto aim, shots will miss far away moving targets because they travel too slowly). Otherwise a spreadshot or ricochet effect maybe, but with the beta wrapping up it seems unlikely. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164099-bands-frames-rebalance-idea-nerf-the-range-of-charge-shoot-buff-the-range-bonus-of-bands-adding-shot-gun-effect-to-frame-for-encourage-a-high-reward-melee-playstyle/#findComment-1797574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steorra Posted February 16, 2025 Author Share Posted February 16, 2025 Bump. Topic changed. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164099-bands-frames-rebalance-idea-nerf-the-range-of-charge-shoot-buff-the-range-bonus-of-bands-adding-shot-gun-effect-to-frame-for-encourage-a-high-reward-melee-playstyle/#findComment-1797982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steorra Posted February 17, 2025 Author Share Posted February 17, 2025 Bump. Topic changed again. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/164099-bands-frames-rebalance-idea-nerf-the-range-of-charge-shoot-buff-the-range-bonus-of-bands-adding-shot-gun-effect-to-frame-for-encourage-a-high-reward-melee-playstyle/#findComment-1798388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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