Why continue to creat imbalance?

[Lee Sy]

It's confused when I read some words that Walter was weak and Wendy was strong before, so the skill tree should be contrary. 

当我读到这些话时总是很困惑：以前的童子军太弱而温蒂太强，所以他们的技能树应该反过来。

Rediculous! If there was an imbalance before, why continue to create it? As the fix patch to character post From Beyond, skill tree should provide players more skills to cope with planar creatures and rift events. 

太荒谬了，如果以前是不平衡的，为什么还要制造这种不平衡呢？作为位面时代的角色补丁，技能树应该是让角色获得应对位面怪和裂隙事件的对策。

I can accept that, in order to highlight the distinctive differences between characters, the design of the skill tree can hardly achieve perfect balance. However, what I cannot tolerate is that, simply because Wendy is too strong 5 years ago, her skill tree should be of a quality far below the average standard.(pitiful Wigfrid)

我可以接受为了彰显不同角色的特性差异，技能树的设计很难做到完全平衡。但我不能忍受仅仅因为五年前Wendy is strong，她的技能树就应该远低于平均水平。（可怜的女武神呐）

We are not playing game with season system, A was strong in S1 or V1.0, so nerf A in S2 or V1.1. Remember that Klei won't update it so frequently, If there's an imbalance, not the style difference, they won't update it until 3 or 5 years later, who knows? Maybe forever, I don't believe Klei can sustain itself for another decade if they persist in maintaining such an arrogant and lax attitude.

我们不是在玩一个赛季制游戏，A在S1很强，所以在S2削弱A。要知道科雷更新可没那么勤快，即使游戏很不平衡（不是指风格差异），没有三年五年科雷是不会去调整的，甚至会永远不再调整。我不认为科雷还能坚持到下一个十年，如果他们继续保持如此的傲慢和懒散。

Enen if the imbalances are unavoidable, why Wendy's skill tree could be so weak. She is the most popular character, why always annoy the majority?

即使不平衡无法避免，为什么温蒂的技能树就应该是最弱的呢？作为最受欢迎的角色，为什么总是要惹怒大多数玩家呢？

[Yifei_]

I suggest that, for now, we shouldn't deliberately focus on balance. The reason Wendy's skill tree needs modification is that it's too dull, lacks originality, and has poor practicality. I've discussed this in detail in my post.

Wendy's skill tree needs to be revised, not because "Wendy is too strong or too weak" or because "Wendy is the most popular character," but because the skill tree itself has serious design issues. Gameplay and fun should be the top priorities. The current skill tree has become quite uninteresting due to the pursuit of what designers call "balance," and this is the core issue. Simply arguing that "Wendy is popular" or "Wendy is weak" is not sufficiently persuasive to justify modifying the skill tree.

我建议哈，现在先不要刻意去管平衡。温蒂技能树需要修改的原因是技能树太无聊、太缺乏新意、实用性太糟糕，这方面的具体分析我在我的帖子里有谈过。

温蒂技能树需要修改，但这不是因为“温蒂很强或者很弱“或者说”温蒂是最热门的角色“，而是技能树本身有严重的设计问题。游戏性与趣味性应当是第一位的，当前技能树为了追求设计师口中的”平衡“而导致技能树相当无趣，这才是核心的关键。仅仅只通过”温蒂很火“或者”温蒂很弱“来证明需要修改技能树是不够有说服力的。

 

[Steorra]

I already tired of "balance" topic tbh.

We almost never have a true "imbalance" thing in formal server except of ShadowPrison (Which simply invalid almost all interaction with traditional bosses). The balance topic should begin from those imbalance things already happened.

People who don't care about ShadowPrison but keep claiming that "Wortox, Wendy, Walter are too strong" is more like trying to change the "Balance" according to their own interest.

 

current issues of Wortox is some filler skill is meaningless for most players, of Wendy is many skill is a simple copy from base kit and it's boring.

Skill tree should makes a character being more fun and have more gameplay choices than before. But not a thing only focusing on "balance" only by specific people's standard.

[AliceShiki]

Walter's tree has nothing to do with balance.

Walter was the most hated character in the game, that's why he needed a Willow-tier skill tree. That's it. They needed to do too much to Walter to make people want to play him, so they did.

You're not gonna see Willow-tier skill trees on characters people already play.

[Yifei_]

26 minutes ago, Britain Khan said:

Unfortunately, interesting skill trees also tend to give strong values.

比较不幸的是，有趣味性的技能树通常也会给比较strong的数值。

No, fun and values don't have a direct relationship. A typical example is the team spirit skill. This skill doesn't involve any numbers, but it is the only outstanding part of Wendy's skill tree because it gives players more control and rewards them during the process of using it.

Another example is Wolfgang's skill tree. The numbers are very strong, but the gameplay is more boring.

不，趣味性和数值没有直接关系。一个典型的例子就是团队精神，这个技能不涉及任何数值，但它是温蒂技能树里唯一出色的地方，因为它给了玩家更多的操作权，并且让玩家在操作的过程中能得到奖励。

另一个例子就是沃尔夫冈的技能树。数值给的很strong，玩法更加无聊。

[Danila6300]

I have no idea what you want. It's a matter of taste. Some people are interested in one thing, some are interested in another. Perhaps after this beta test the developers will add or fix something for Wendy. But now, perhaps, it's time for Walter and Wortox. In my opinion, this beta version has already reached its limit. And there is a possibility that there are still those who were satisfied with Wendy's skill tree and are waiting for its speedy release. Maybe then more players will appreciate it and if everything is so bad, then I think they will speak out on the forum. I'm saying that, in general, not everyone plays the beta version and somehow tracks it. One of my friends didn't even know that the beta version hadn't ended since last year, and that it was still ongoing.

[BalkanCockroach]

2 hours ago, Lee Sy said:

Even if imbalance is inevitable, why should Wendy's skill tree be the weakest? As the most popular character, why does she always anger the majority of players?

Wilson mains:

 

[Danila6300]

Just now, BalkanCockroach said:

Wilson mains:

And honestly, I would like them to work more on Wilson than on Wendy. Wilson needs it much more overall, and he is the face of the game after all. 

[aidankocherhans]

I don't really understand the point you're trying to make, but...

If Wendy is stronger than Walter, and they get equally strong skill trees, Wendy will still be stronger than Walter. I don't see how that's better balance.

[Lee Sy]

1 hour ago, aidankocherhans said:

I don't really understand the point you're trying to make, but...

If Wendy is stronger than Walter, and they get equally strong skill trees, Wendy will still be stronger than Walter. I don't see how that's better balance.

How could you compare the sole skill tree, when one said certain skill tree is satisfied or unsatisfied, he was comparing the character with skill tree.

你怎么比较单独的技能树，当一个人说某个技能树是好是坏时，我们都是在比较有了这个技能树的角色。

I mean there's only two state: no skill tree, post skill tree. This topic is about that Wendy was strong before, which could not be the reason she should be weak or boring post skill tree.

我的意思是，只有两种状态，有技能树，没有技能树。这个帖子是在说，温蒂在来自域外版本之前或许很强，但这不是她必须在拥有技能树之后就要比其他人更弱更无趣的理由。

Hope there's no language barrier, I have tried my best to impress it.

[aidankocherhans]

45 minutes ago, Lee Sy said:

I mean there's only two state: no skill tree, post skill tree. This topic is about that Wendy was strong before, which could not be the reason she should be weak or boring post skill tree.

No one is saying she should be weaker than other characters with the skill tree, they think the tree itself shouldn't raise her power that much because she's already in a pretty good place, and giving her a max power skill tree would just make her better than other characters

[Lee Sy]

6 hours ago, aidankocherhans said:

No one is saying she should be weaker than other characters with the skill tree, they think the tree itself shouldn't raise her power that much because she's already in a pretty good place, and giving her a max power skill tree would just make her better than other characters

There're only two states: a character without skill tree before From Beyond, a character with skill tree after FB, they are indivisible. You can never rank a skill tree if you ignore the character itself.

It's not like 8(original Wendy)+2(skill tree)=10 and 5(original Walter)+5(skill tree)=10,  it's more like Wendy without skill tree got 8 before FB, and Wendy with skill tree got 2 after FB.

There's no room for character to plus, if a skill tree is powerful, which means this character with skill tree is powerful. If a skill tree is boring, we are saying this character with skill tree is boring.

没有脱离角色的技能树，没有脱离技能树的角色，在后裂隙时代，二者密不可分，不依托角色去评价技能树没有意义。

[WANZUN]

温蒂的技能树不是最弱的吧，女武神的比她弱多了我感觉

威尔逊的技能树也没比她强

威尔逊还少了一次重做

[cyjs]

9 minutes ago, WANZUN said:

温蒂的技能树不是最弱的吧，女武神的比她弱多了我感觉

威尔逊的技能树也没比她强

女武神有奔雷矛和训牛，威尔逊的炼金术和游戏的契合度很高，温蒂在月比暗比骨灰盒四暗药几轮大砍后，技能树变的非常奇怪，只能用奇怪去形容。我觉得他们三个还是别比了，女武神和温蒂和威尔逊都需要重置

[Yaorin yon]

6 minutes ago, WANZUN said:

温蒂的技能树不是最弱的吧，女武神的比她弱多了我感觉

威尔逊的技能树也没比她强

威尔逊还少了一次重做

大家都很糟糕。

比较谁更糟糕只会削弱大家都糟糕、都需要改进的观点。

[Lee Sy]

54 minutes ago, WANZUN said:

温蒂的技能树不是最弱的吧，女武神的比她弱多了我感觉

威尔逊的技能树也没比她强

威尔逊还少了一次重做

你猜怎么着，他们都出自you know who之手

[WANZUN]

我同意你们三个