Wendy Affinity Lines should have more improvement for serving the lore, the fun but not only combat.

[Steorra]

1. Shadow Abby should have an ability to teleport a randomly position once got hitted for replacing the extra planar defense effect (just like Shadow Creatures. This would cause some mess in practice I have to say. Make the Vex effect longer a bit may helping to fix the potential issue. This wouldn't be a pure buff to Shabby. But it helps a lot for fun and lore aspects.)

This also would makes the mutation of Shabby being meaningful since the Randomly Teleport would be a downside of Shabby in specific scenario - player have to choose best strategy for different scenarios.

 

2. Lunar Abby should have same ability to attack Shadow Creatures just like what Gestalts did. Even no fuel drops from this way could be acceptable (since that's how Gestalts work before). This would not be a pure buff to Lunar Abby since this would caused unexpected problem in combat. But this is fun.

(I have to point out that the current Lubby is already hard for target selecting in practice combat once you have multiple enemies nearby, and this might need some fix. AoE effect of the dashing would being a potential fixing option for this issue)

 

3. Lunar Abby should have AoE ability for her every dashing animation (both normal attack and "attack at" command). the sacrificing of AoE is unacceptable for Lunar Abby considering her current ability. She still need management now. If the management of Abby is necessary for the design, what the reason to keep AoE away from Lunar Abby? Is she too overpower now? 

[Grove]

First one doesn't sound fun or reasonable at all tbh.

[Lardee]

3 hours ago, Steorra said:

1. Shadow Abby should have an ability to teleport a randomly position once got hitted for replacing the extra planar defense effect (just like Shadow Creatures. This would cause some mess in practice I have to say. Make the Vex effect longer a bit may helping to fix the potential issue. This wouldn't be a pure buff to Shabby. But it helps a lot for fun and lore aspects.)

This also would makes the mutation of Shabby being meaningful since the Randomly Teleport would be a downside of Shabby in specific scenario - player have to choose best strategy for different scenarios.

This would make Shadow Abigail far worse since you'd have much less control over her positioning.  I can just imagine what a nightmare fighting Fuelweaver or Bee Queen would be with a teleporting Abigail.

 

3 hours ago, Steorra said:

2. Lunar Abby should have same ability to attack Shadow Creatures just like what Gestalts did. Even no fuel drops from this way could be acceptable (since that's how Gestalts work before). This would not be a pure buff to Lunar Abby since this would caused unexpected problem in combat. But this is fun.

(I have to point out that the current Lubby is already hard for target selecting in practice combat once you have multiple enemies nearby, and this might need some fix. AoE effect of the dashing would being a potential fixing option for this issue)

No, that's just removing one of Wendy's only downsides.

 

3 hours ago, Steorra said:

3. Lunar Abby should have AoE ability for her every dashing animation (both normal attack and "attack at" command). the sacrificing of AoE is unacceptable for Lunar Abby considering her current ability. She still need management now. If the management of Abby is necessary for the design, what the reason to keep AoE away from Lunar Abby? Is she too overpower now? 

This is true. Letting Lunar Abby use a weak, single hit AoE attack contingent on Wendy using Team Spirit commands adds much more depth to Gestalt Abigail's gameplay. The AoE is so weak, you need to use Team Spirit 3-7 times just to take out a spider so it's not replacing regular Abigail, but it's good enough that it can be used in niche situations like taking an enemy's aggro, dealing with FW's minions or applying vex to multiple targets so that Wendy doesn't have to be attacking the same thing Abigail is. 

AoE using attack at command takes Gestalt Abigail gameplay from a 6/10 to an 9/10.

[Steorra]

24 minutes ago, Lardee said:

This would make Shadow Abigail far worse since you'd have much less control over her positioning.  I can just imagine what a nightmare fighting Fuelweaver or Bee Queen would be with a teleporting Abigail.

Yes I knew. The thing is that some folks or even devs think Wendy should not be more strong, so a skill with "good efficiency" for combat seems is unbearable. I prefer to make the tree being more interest and suitable for lore so I gave this idea.

And you could simply not to active the shadow form of Abby for these specific scenario. Since the mutation for Shabby is achievable 7/24, not like Lubby.

24 minutes ago, Lardee said:

No, that's just removing one of Wendy's only downsides.

"some folks or even devs think Wendy should not be more strong" And the evidence comes here.

Tbh, I don't think the downside of Shadow Creature is a thing to Wendy since we already happened to many similar argument which trying to clarify that "Shadows were never a true downside of Wendy since you have sanity resistance, and you could simply ignore the Shadows in ruin." So... I personally glad to say that "If you do think this is matter and this is more important than the fun & lore aspect, go talk with those who said Shadow is not true downside to Wendy maybe." 

I'm sorry. I could give up my dissatisfaction to Wendy's daily power in combat, but I would never give up my dissatisfaction to her stories, potential fun gameplay and other interesting aspects.

24 minutes ago, Lardee said:

The AoE is so weak, you need to use Team Spirit 3-7 times just to take out a spider so it's not replacing regular Abigail

I personally think the AoE of Lubby should be strong since her style is strong attack with lower frequency. I could accept that to make her attack frequency slower for ensure her strong dash.

(There's a potential balance idea is that to make the first target she dashed at to suffer 100% damage, but the 2nd target only suffer 80%, 3rd suffer 60%, etc)

24 minutes ago, Lardee said:

but it's good enough that it can be used in niche situations like taking an enemy's aggro

I was thought there's a hidden reason to remove the dash AoE effect of Lubby is "it's hard to fix the aggro problem of Abby's dashing". If I remember correctly the "attack at" command cannot attract aggro before. Not sure if this was fixed or not these days.