Team Spirit Commands: Remove the Cooldowns.

[DegenerateFurry]

The cooldowns on the Team Spirit commands are unnecessary and only serve to limit player creativity and lower Wendy's skill ceiling. Through a mod (which no longer works as of today's patch), I was able to experience Team Spirit without cooldowns and let me tell you, it's a lot better. Being able to have Abigail zoom into a group, then spook them? That's fun, and it's also not much different than just having her float over and then spook them.

None of the commands really make Wendy too powerful by having their cooldowns removed, but it is a massive increase to quality-of-life, especially since some commands still go on cooldown after being interrupted (her scare command being a notable example). I don't see why our ability to reposition Abigail and have her use tactics needs a cooldown when it doesn't noticeably increase DPS and requires sufficient player skill to be used to increase her survivability. 

Failing that, does anyone know how to mod the cooldowns back out? I've been trying to figure it out, but I don't have a good understanding of modding.

[Debruh]

They just removed the ability of scare to get interrupted instead of even removing the shared cd.

I get why CDs need to exist, for escape for example ig. But at the very least remove them being shared.

[DegenerateFurry]

3 minutes ago, Debruh said:

They just removed the ability of scare to get interrupted instead of even removing the shared cd.

I get why CDs need to exist, for escape for example ig. But at the very least remove them being shared.

Yeah, that's a good compromise. Them being shared is really a problem. I personally don't think they even need to exist, but if they're gonna exist, each command should have a separate one. 

[Lardee]

If they remove the cooldowns, nothing is stopping the player from making Abigail unkillable by spamming 'escape' over and over. The cooldowns function so the player actually experiences consequences if they time the commands wrong or misposition Abigail.

Just give scare a separate timer. 

 

[Civecilim]

No cooldowns seems a little too good. If you endlessly scare, many things never attack back. I think this is still doable even with the cooldown, but it's a little harder. If you endlessly escape, Abigail is immune. If you endlessly "attack at," you get bullet Abigail, and you can be a lousy Walter as necessary and attack whatever you want remotely. Attack at also seems to provide short immunity so if you spam attack at Abigail seems to survive longer.

 

It would seem as though everything shares a cooldown? Maybe a reasonable compromise would be having each ability have its own separate cooldown? I would enjoy "haunt" not having a cooldown, or the chance for special effects to be increased. It would probably be too good if you had a 100% chance for cool effects to happen (mostly turning pigs into werepigs or spider dens into queens for extra dens), but maybe some kind of buff is warranted.

[DegenerateFurry]

1 hour ago, Civecilim said:

No cooldowns seems a little too good. If you endlessly scare, many things never attack back.

Doable with the cooldown and also doable by Maxwell by spamming Shadow Sneak, and he's a way stronger character than Wendy. This is why I think it's unnecessary to have cooldowns.

1 hour ago, Civecilim said:

It would seem as though everything shares a cooldown? Maybe a reasonable compromise would be having each ability have its own separate cooldown? I would enjoy "haunt" not having a cooldown, or the chance for special effects to be increased. It would probably be too good if you had a 100% chance for cool effects to happen (mostly turning pigs into werepigs or spider dens into queens for extra dens), but maybe some kind of buff is warranted.

I do agree, separate cooldowns the way to go if we're keeping cooldowns, and haunt's effect chance definitely needs to be doubled or so.

[cyjs]

I think we can cool it down separately

[DegenerateFurry]

2 hours ago, Lardee said:

If they remove the cooldowns, nothing is stopping the player from making Abigail unkillable by spamming 'escape' over and over.

Yeah, and she doesn't do anything when she's in escape mode. Spamming it would be literally no different in terms of what you're accomplishing from unsummoning her, which also makes her unkillable, but for no effort past the first button press. Do you also have a problem with unsummoning her?

2 hours ago, Lardee said:

The cooldowns function so the player actually experiences consequences if they time the commands wrong or misposition Abigail.

Maybe that'd be the case if they had separate cooldowns, but all of them sharing the same cooldown just means you can't chain commands, which limits player creativity and skill expression. Also, having shorter cooldowns would still accomplish that idea of consequences while still allowing them to be used more frequently.

[Lardee]

1 hour ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Yeah, and she doesn't do anything when she's in escape mode. Spamming it would be literally no different in terms of what you're accomplishing from unsummoning her, which also makes her unkillable, but for no effort past the first button press. Do you also have a problem with unsummoning her?

...if you unsummon her, you're going to have to go through the lengthy resummoning animation before you can use her again.  With spamming the 'escape' button, she stays intangible indefinitely, never exposing her to danger at all. When you have an opening to attack, you just stop spamming and Abigail will be right there attacking with you.

 

1 hour ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Maybe that'd be the case if they had separate cooldowns, but all of them sharing the same cooldown just means you can't chain commands, which limits player creativity and skill expression. Also, having shorter cooldowns would still accomplish that idea of consequences while still allowing them to be used more frequently.

I can see a case for separating 'scare' from 'attack here' because one relies on positioning. I don't see the case for separating 'escape' and 'attack here'. 

There's much more skill expression in working around the limitations of these abilities than there are spamming them nonstop. One punishes you for mistakes, the other allows unlimited mistakes.

[Debruh]

7 minutes ago, Lardee said:

...if you unsummon her, you're going to have to go through the lengthy resummoning animation before you can use her again.  With spamming the 'escape' button, she stays intangible indefinitely, never exposing her to danger at all. When you have an opening to attack, you just stop spamming and Abigail will be right there attacking with you.

 

I can see a case for separating 'scare' from 'attack here' because one relies on positioning. I don't see the case for separating 'escape' and 'attack here'. 

There's much more skill expression in working around the limitations of these abilities than there are spamming them nonstop. One punishes you for mistakes, the other allows unlimited mistakes.

Movement ones sharing a cd makes sense. But scare and haunt should probably have their own. Especially haunt. Even if they do make it so that Abby can get hit while haunting or something.

[Yaorin yon]

Woodie’s Moose Dash has no cooldown, allowing it to completely ignore the threat of shadow creatures. I don’t understand why Abigail can’t reach that level, yet her ability needs a cooldown to balance it.

[renamoe]

I believe Klei added the cooldowns for balancing reasons, though I can see how removing them would improve the fluidity of Wendy's gameplay.

As for modding, you might be able to achieve this by

1. Simply commenting out the cooldown-related lines in the code.
2. Or, if you want to preserve the underlying logic, you could modify the cooldown values to something extremely small (like 0.05 seconds) instead.

That way, the system still technically registers a cooldown, but it's negligible in practice.

It looks like there's been a major update regarding mods due to the spread of a malicious mod. From what I've read, a user named kipperok attempted to get Klei to modify an interface, but after the developers declined, they updated their client mod "Say About Your Ping" (mod ID: 2847661374) on January 19 with encrypted malicious code. Klei has since removed this mod.

Additionally, on February 5, Klei released an update that appears to restrict certain mod functionalities as a security measure. As a result, some mods may no longer work properly.

[DegenerateFurry]

11 hours ago, renamoe said:

I believe Klei added the cooldowns for balancing reasons, though I can see how removing them would improve the fluidity of Wendy's gameplay.

As for modding, you might be able to achieve this by

1. Simply commenting out the cooldown-related lines in the code.
2. Or, if you want to preserve the underlying logic, you could modify the cooldown values to something extremely small (like 0.05 seconds) instead.

That way, the system still technically registers a cooldown, but it's negligible in practice.

It looks like there's been a major update regarding mods due to the spread of a malicious mod. From what I've read, a user named kipperok attempted to get Klei to modify an interface, but after the developers declined, they updated their client mod "Say About Your Ping" (mod ID: 2847661374) on January 19 with encrypted malicious code. Klei has since removed this mod.

Additionally, on February 5, Klei released an update that appears to restrict certain mod functionalities as a security measure. As a result, some mods may no longer work properly.

I was hoping to change the cooldown values, but I couldn't find them. I looked in the Abigail files, the ghostcommand_defs file, and the spellbookcooldowns file. I tried removing the cooldown-related lines in the ghostcommand_defs file and it made my game crash when I tried commanding Abigail.