Do not shift responsibilty onto the player

[DVGMedia]

When something happens and there is an ongoing problem a common thing people at fault do is shift the blame to others. this is seen alot in america thanks to our pride. This is done because there are big companies that don't want to be the ones to take the blame for whats going on.
So instead they make it a personal problem for the people to solve themselves.
Do your part to save the environment! Turn off the lights Make sure to recycle.
The put tasks on people so that way they can continue their flawed design but make it seem like things are going well.

This is an argument type used to take advantage of people.

And This ties purely to sisturn three

The argument being that you can just adjust it is not one that should be had Because it shifts the responsiblity to the player to take care of something that should not be in the players hands.

I know of people that will forget to remove their sisturn petals and be affected by it.
And the sad part is that the uniqunes of it goes away The thematic nature of the skill goes away. All because of gameplay uses.

If a player wants to have abby closer to them and its through this skill it should be able to do something that the player can set and forget.
Instead of having to constantly manage.

[siullajirafa]

Totally agree

[Koomin]

When would you want to remove the petals or player tag at this point?  It turned out that almost all of the bosses that "didn't use the player tag" were just issues with the wiki, and really only like 3 have that as the case.  There's not really a real reason to swap them in and out for different boss fights.

And for everyday life, like has been mentioned a lot, Abigail just demolishes all of the mobs and hoards, and you really have to go out of your way to make her die.  She's not going to suddenly start dying to mobs with 50% healing reduction. 

I don't really know that there is a scenario where I would not just leave the petals in there. (Although I wouldn't mind if they lasted longer so I could even more successfully just leave them there)

[DVGMedia]

31 minutes ago, Koomin said:

When would you want to remove the petals or player tag at this point?  It turned out that almost all of the bosses that "didn't use the player tag" were just issues with the wiki, and really only like 3 have that as the case.  There's not really a real reason to swap them in and out for different boss fights.

And for everyday life, like has been mentioned a lot, Abigail just demolishes all of the mobs and hoards, and you really have to go out of your way to make her die.  She's not going to suddenly start dying to mobs with 50% healing reduction. 

I don't really know that there is a scenario where I would not just leave the petals in there. (Although I wouldn't mind if they lasted longer so I could even more successfully just leave them there)

Its really the consistency of game design. LIke the just the bonus for having petals in the sisturn doesn't even benefit the player tag. because players have to remove them to get back regular abby.
Wouldn't it be better if people wanted to use the perks they got to gain this abilty  and have their perks actually work to making abby stronger instead of this situational nonsense?
 

[Koomin]

1 minute ago, DVGMedia said:

Its really the consistency of game design. LIke the just the bonus for having petals in the sisturn doesn't even benefit the player tag. because players have to remove them to get back regular abby.
Wouldn't it be better if people wanted to use the perks they got to gain this abilty  and have their perks actually work to making abby stronger instead of this situational nonsense?
 

I just don't see this situation you are describing where I have blessed sisturn 3 unlocked and want to remove the petals and get back regular Abigail and swap back and forth.   I discussed in my post above why that's the case, and why I would just put the petals in and keep them there. Can you help explain why it is situational?

[Steorra]

45 minutes ago, Koomin said:

It turned out that almost all of the bosses that "didn't use the player tag" were just issues with the wiki, and really only like 3 have that as the case.

Whatever how true this is, it would be more credible if there's a list to show the exactly damage percentage to player tag of every bosses.

Or it would be hard to convince everyone to accept this conclusion.

47 minutes ago, Koomin said:

(Although I wouldn't mind if they lasted longer so I could even more successfully just leave them there)

I was started a thread to recommend similar thing just now. But it seems there's few people care about itnot sure. Maybe more waiting laterly.

49 minutes ago, Koomin said:

)

And it might be off topic, but I would like to ask some of us took a look to the interaction of multiple Sisturns when we in a multiplayer world. I guess it might have issues need to be find and point out.

[Yifei_]

  

48 minutes ago, Koomin said:

And for everyday life, like has been mentioned a lot, Abigail just demolishes all of the mobs and hoards, and you really have to go out of your way to make her die.  She's not going to suddenly start dying to mobs with 50% healing reduction. 

Saying that Abigail can demolish all mobs and hoards is a bit too absolute. A typical example is the Damaged Rook in the Ruins. This thing deals 200 damage and is immune to Scare in Team Spirits, making it quite dangerous for Abigail.

 

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

  

Saying that Abigail can demolish all mobs and hoards is a bit too absolute. A typical example is the Damaged Rook in the Ruins. This thing deals 200 damage and is immune to Scare in Team Spirits, making it quite dangerous for Abigail.

 

Yes this one of the issues need to solve. The Huant helps few when facing rooks i ruins since Huant need to activate near the rook, where the rook could hit Abi already.

[DVGMedia]

I just want there to be synergy amongst the perks.
There is so much anti synergy in wendys skill tee.

Potions lasting longer doesn't even matter because she often cycles between them.

Third teir of sisturn perk actively requires you don't have petals in there lest you nerf your sister in day to day combat.
Completely disregarding the bonus petal retention.

I would like my perks to work together

Kind of like how wigfrids durabilty bonuses help out the comander helm's healing factor

Thats just all i want. And a lvl 4 abby would do that.
Without all this gunk of reducing healing and unsummoning and petal manipulation that playertag abby provides

[Soul7k]

the tedium of having to add and remove petals is exactly what I was worried about when people were asking for the reduced healing while blessed 3 was active

[Koomin]

28 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

I just want there to be synergy amongst the perks.
There is so much anti synergy in wendys skill tee.

Potions lasting longer doesn't even matter because she often cycles between them.

Third teir of sisturn perk actively requires you don't have petals in there lest you nerf your sister in day to day combat.
Completely disregarding the bonus petal retention.

I would like my perks to work together

Kind of like how wigfrids durabilty bonuses help out the comander helm's healing factor

Thats just all i want. And a lvl 4 abby would do that.
Without all this gunk of reducing healing and unsummoning and petal manipulation that playertag abby provides

Just put the petals in there and leave them there.  Then you have synergy between the retention and Sisturn 3. 

I keep trying to get an answer on why you would want to be swapping these things in and out, but am suspicious that the question is being avoided because there is in fact no reason, beyond that you want Abigail tier 4.

(I acknowledge the rook thing, but think it is minor and would not be swapping my petals out for rooks.  I generally just have them crash into each other or the other clockworks anyway haha)

[DVGMedia]

4 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Just put the petals in there and leave them there.  Then you have synergy between the retention and Sisturn 3. 

I keep trying to get an answer on why you would want to be swapping these things in and out, but am suspicious that the question is being avoided because there is in fact no reason, beyond that you want Abigail tier 4.

(I acknowledge the rook thing, but think it is minor and would not be swapping my petals out for rooks.  I generally just have them crash into each other or the other clockworks anyway haha)

I say that because its an argument other players have given. About how to avoid dealing with the nerfed healing.

Oh well you can just remove them to remove the player tag effects when you are not fighting bosses.
But then the sisturn perks are doing nothing  because i want to avoid this detrimental thing. 

The sisturn perks only work with themselves. with the bonus sanity resistance

 

[Koomin]

1 hour ago, DVGMedia said:

I say that because its an argument other players have given. About how to avoid dealing with the nerfed healing.

Oh well you can just remove them to remove the player tag effects when you are not fighting bosses.
But then the sisturn perks are doing nothing  because i want to avoid this detrimental thing. 

The sisturn perks only work with themselves. with the bonus sanity resistance

 

I think that was being said by some when there was belief that half of the bosses didn't use the player tag.  Now that that was figured out to not be true I don't think people are really suggesting that anymore since it's not needed?

[DVGMedia]

Just now, Koomin said:

I think that was being said by some when there was belief that half of the bosses didn't use the player tag.  Now that that was figured out to not be true I don't think people are really suggesting that anymore since it's not needed?

its still needed in order to remove the nerf for default abby usage

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

its still needed in order to remove the nerf for default abby usage

Doesn't she still heal normally if unsummoned?

[DVGMedia]

Just now, Dingle said:

Doesn't she still heal normally if unsummoned?

yeah but you shouldn't have to unsummon her to heal

 

[Koomin]

6 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

its still needed in order to remove the nerf for default abby usage

 

3 hours ago, Koomin said:

 

And for everyday life, like has been mentioned a lot, Abigail just demolishes all of the mobs and hoards, and you really have to go out of your way to make her die.  She's not going to suddenly start dying to mobs with 50% healing reduction.

Yea refer to this post of mine above.  Abigail is and always has been able to demolish almost every mob in the game, and just needed boss help.  Whether she heals a bit less or not won't impact that at all, so you should be able to just ignore it and leave the petals in?  I'm not really sure what situation you are trying to avoid in everyday life where you need rapid Abigail healing - which ones are you thinking of?

[DVGMedia]

Just now, Koomin said:

 

Yea refer to this post of mine above.  Abigail is and always has been able to demolish almost every mob in the game, and just needed boss help.  Whether she heals a bit less or not won't impact that at all, so you should be able to just ignore it and leave the petals in?  I'm not really sure what situation you are trying to avoid in everyday life where you need rapid Abigail healing - which ones are you thinking of?

You just shouldn't change a base function of a character to suit something that is not consistent in gameplay

[Koomin]

27 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

You just shouldn't change a base function of a character to suit something that is not consistent in gameplay

It seems like your issues here are just conceptual stuff that you are passionate about about game design, but that the skill works perfectly fine for you and the concerns don't actually come up in the game.  

The skill does its job well and works for the relevant situations, and since there don't appear to be any that you know of otherwise, it seems like Klei did a good job. 

[SilverSpoon]

4 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

this is seen alot in america thanks to our pride.

Even Americans shouldn't say things like that to Americans.

[DVGMedia]

22 minutes ago, Koomin said:

It seems like your issues here are just conceptual stuff that you are passionate about about game design, but that the skill works perfectly fine for you and the concerns don't actually come up in the game.  

The skill does its job well and works for the relevant situations, and since there don't appear to be any that you know of otherwise, it seems like Klei did a good job. 

but ive told you the real problems they are not conceptual

 

[Koomin]

Just now, DVGMedia said:

but ive told you the real problems they are not conceptual

 

Unless I'm missing something you haven't.  The closest thing you have said is that you want to "remove the nerf", but not for any gameplay reason that I can tell.  I discussed how there is no real gameplay impact of having reduced healing elixir effectiveness versus mobs because Abigail has no problem with them anyway, and you just said this:

58 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

You just shouldn't change a base function of a character to suit something that is not consistent in gameplay

That's why I'm saying it's just conceptual.  I've asked like 4 times for any examples of how your concerns would be relevant in actual gameplay and gotten nothing.

[aidankocherhans]

1 hour ago, Koomin said:

Abigail is and always has been able to demolish almost every mob in the game, and just needed boss help.  Whether she heals a bit less or not won't impact that at all, so you should be able to just ignore it and leave the petals in?  I'm not really sure what situation you are trying to avoid in everyday life where you need rapid Abigail healing - which ones are you thinking of?

I mean she's not actually unkillable without maintenance, healing potions are a huge part of what makes her so good against hordes of enemies

4 hours ago, Koomin said:

It turned out that almost all of the bosses that "didn't use the player tag" were just issues with the wiki, and really only like 3 have that as the case.

Where is the fixed boss list?

[Koomin]

10 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

I mean she's not actually unkillable without maintenance, healing potions are a huge part of what makes her so good against hordes of enemies

Where is the fixed boss list?

It's usually fine as long as you aren't fighting like 40 enemies at once - but yes I'm not going to go remove the petals so that I can more happily fight 40 things simultaneously as a hoard since that seems a bit unnecessary.  If you really want that experience it is slightly worse I guess, but I don't think it would really affect anyone much.

Here are the ones that were wrong.  The first post of the thread was also updated.

 

[Epireum]

Maybe the petals could be bad for things like depth worms? In a sense I'd not want the petals in the sisturn if she's face tanking them,  'cause they hurt lol (although she often dies to just 3 if face tanking even with super heal potion so.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) For me personally, besides depth worms, other mobs I'd potentially use the bigger heal would be the krampi, torch pigs, 4 spider waves at once from 3 tier tents if they don't get stun locked, frog rain if they stun lock her, uhh, that's all I can remember atm.

 

Maybe they could change the nerf to only work when in close proximity of boss monsters just like how boss monsters have proximity sanity drain. (Could allow for lore wise around players and sanity since she's now a player in terms of damage or how players are affected different by potions.) Then you could utilize the escape and dash attack commands more to strat heal? That's all I got atm. 

However, in general, the whole thing does kind of feel like a little like bandaid upon bandaid. It's because the big heal potion for abigail already existed when blessed 3 was made, and they didn't notice the op synergy in them. It might be better to swap the player tag for 900 max health (no bloodthirster overheal), that way, potion is slow on her fat health, and keeping lune petals in the sisturn will be sought after. The lore of the flickering after image doesn't fit anymore though as that was part of yhr fact she is "seen as human" in the player tag to bosses. I'll see if I can figuring out something better since 900 health is really only like, another fee hits compsre to the player tag for some bosses I think. I posed an idea in my thread but not sure how it'd be now but it does nerf the dmg reduct for blessed 3 while keeping the human flicker image and then adding in a little micro extra for general hostiles.

There's also my concern with multiple Wendy's with multiple sisturns in a server and how that will work with the lune petals if several have blessed 3 enabled.