Collating Direct Implementation of suggestions from the forum in Wendy's skill tree

[Steorra]

29 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Firstly player tag (which was a community suggestion)

The advice was of me but the intention was for double survivability of Abi for rooks and bosses. But it work nothing to rooks and some bosses but brings current punishment here.

More like a wish be realized by demons lol.

[WenericMember]

5 minutes ago, Yaorin yon said:

In evaluating the attitude towards handling something, I believe we should lean towards the outcome rather than the process. Because the outcome is what we pursue. When you come to a restaurant to eat, what you definitely want is delicious food to fill your stomach. And the restaurant's salesperson chose to tell you stories and tell you how much effort they put into cooking, only to end up with a wet and burnt dish. Do you think we should express our praise for this restaurant?

On one hand, I kinda get what you're saying. On the other hand, the key mistake you're making with this analogy, is your examples are purely for your own condition.

The funeral and resteraunt, you are the only one the service is being performed for. So you should expect it to be done to your standards. The salesperson and executioner are obliged to give you a service tailored to your needs.

This is a public beta, and Klei is trying to form one path to satisfy thousands of people. Something that would make me happy, would alienate significant portions of the crowd, so it's unreasonable to expect 1:1 implementation of ideas.

[Grove]

Just now, Steorra said:

The advice was of me but the intention was for double survivability of Abi for rooks and bosses. But it work nothing to rooks and some bosses but brings current punishment here.

More like a wish be realized by demons lol.

Or it just wasn't thought though.

That plus the fact that everybody was complaining about bosses, made Klei make it purely for bosses

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, Dingle said:

8 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Expand  

I have a feeling Klei doesn't trust the polls much in this update.

That's good to continuously keeping it.

[aidankocherhans]

27 minutes ago, Debruh said:

A lot of the people who are complaining about it now did suggest it back then. 

I don't think anyone knew about the inconsistency of boss/player tag interactions, no one brought it up before afaik

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

The potion nerf... isn't an option on that poll.

Since many were disagreed to nerfing a base kit.

You know I'm glad to see if there's a nerf to Cure-All. Though I would still say sorry for forgotten of this method.

[Grove]

1 minute ago, aidankocherhans said:

I don't think anyone knew about the inconsistency of boss/player tag interactions, no one brought it up before afaik

That's the thing.

A lot of these suggestions didn't have any kind of 'Not sure about this' or even an 'I think' or 'In my opinion', or any thing. It was just thrown in with complete confidence. Which, maybe you shouldn't do if you're not sure of your idea??

Klei did claim that they were gonna work on aesthetic changes. They probably did only look at the early suggestions then had their break then began working on them

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Yaorin yon said:

I don't mind if you tell me this story, I hope it is relevant to my ideas, and you can elaborate on what you think is the problem in my expression.

There was once a king who made a beautiful palace. It was full of Golden Birds, singing the most beautiful songs. When they laid eggs, the eggs were of pure gold.

Everyone who visited loved this palace.

But one day, a haughty guest visited that was blind in one eye, and deaf in one ear.

He turned his blind eye to the Golden Birds, and said "What is this, a chicken coop?"

He turned his deaf ear to the Golden Birds, and said, "These chickens quack too much! Too much noise!"

He smelled the Golden Birds with his nose (his nose also didn't function) and said "These chickens smell like egg!" (the Golden Birds had a very pleasant smell also)

Only years later, on his deathbed, did the haughty guest realize that he was in the beautiful palace of Golden Birds.

You are like the guest, not realizing the beauty of his surroundings.

The Wendy Skilltree is the beautiful palace, and every branch in the skill tree is a Golden Bird. Every individual perk is like the golden eggs that they laid.

Meanwhile, I am enjoying the full beauty of the skill tree. I am listening to the song of the Golden Birds. I am taking their Golden Eggs, and I am eating their Golden Eggs. They taste so good.

I use part of one Golden Egg, and my positive attitude, to cultivate a potion of Eternal Youth so I can enjoy the skill tree forever.

I hope this helps you understand the power of a positive attitude and that the Wendy skill tree is great.

[Grove]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

Since many were disagreed to nerfing a base kit.

You know I'm glad to see if there's a nerf to Cure-All. Though I would still say sorry for forgotten of this method.

The base kit thing brought up when people suggested increasing the cost of cure-all, not nerfing it when player tag is active.

[Steorra]

17 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Abigail already borderline broken when dealing with hordes,

I hope everyone could consider weremoose and catapult first when discuss about this topic.

Abi was designed to erase hordes easily as intended. Buffing it more wouldn't brings more issues. 

If you insist it's an issue to buffing horde control ability of Abi, considering to nerf weremoose, catapult and Huant command first before ask other balance concerns pleast.

[Grove]

26 minutes ago, Debruh said:

A lot of the buff campaigns also just completely devolve into even worse.

Player tag quickly devolves into Planar entity protection. Which for something like bearger, is actually stronger than just 50% damage protection.

Then that becomes what people are campaigning for.

Supporting something that isn't really needed simply so it doesn't snowball feels weird but here we are

 

23 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I know a lot of this is disingenuous, though I'm not allowed to say why, I think.

Idk what I was talking about in the last bit of the comment tbh. Since I do support the 50% damage thing.

[aidankocherhans]

4 minutes ago, Debruh said:

That's the thing.

A lot of these suggestions didn't have any kind of 'Not sure about this' or even an 'I think' or 'In my opinion', or any thing. It was just thrown in with complete confidence. Which, maybe you shouldn't do if you're not sure of your idea??

They were only suggestions, even if they weren't phrased that way. It's on klei to determine if an idea works with all the internal information they have, they don't need to take our ideas at face value.

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

I hope everyone could consider weremoose and catapult first when discuss about this topic.

Abi was designed to erase hordes easily as intended. Buffing it more wouldn't brings more issues. 

If you insist it's an issue to buffing horde control ability of Abi, considering to nerf weremoose, catapult and Huant command first before ask other balance concerns pleast.

"Oh Woodie, you're so strong".
"Oh catapult, you're so strong".

[WenericMember]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I hope everyone could consider weremoose and catapult first when discuss about this topic.

Abi was designed to erase hordes easily as intended. Buffing it more wouldn't brings more issues. 

If you insist it's an issue to buffing horde control ability of Abi, considering to nerf weremoose, catapult and Huant command first before ask other balance concerns pleast.

Catapults are INCREDIBLY resource intensive. Abigail V hordes is not.

Woodie's more dubious but people have been becoming more negative on his tree because it does too much. Even then, it's still incredibly slow compared to Abigail, and prevents you from multitasking.

[Dingle]

Just now, WenericMember said:

Catapults are INCREDIBLY resource intensive. Abigail V hordes is not.

Woodie's more dubious but people have been becoming more negative on his tree because it does too much. Even then, it's still incredibly slow compared to Abigail, and prevents you from multitasking.

Catapults can also get destroyed by hordes haha.

[Siren11]

22 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

That's fair enough. The issue with increasing Abby's HP is that Abigail already borderline broken when dealing with hordes, so doubling her HP would be overkill. The goal was to increase her survivability purely against bosses.

Yeah, but if she’s already too strong, then it doesn’t really matter if she’s stronger. She’ll probably never die against a horde with or without the skill, as long as the player knows what they’re doing. If 1200 HP is too strong, then maybe just 900 (though possibly with another skill to bring it up to 1200).

20 minutes ago, Debruh said:

The increase Abby's health was after the reduced healing thing. At the start of the player tag thing, which is probably when Klei looked at suggestions, it was just reduce healing.

Obviously not a well though suggestion, it was just made because when people pointed out player tag's problems, supporters of it just didn't think about it and said 'reduce healing' until the fact that player tag isn't consistent and doesn't apply to rooks came out

Yeah, that’s when I said I thought it was a bad idea. It was because of Fuelweaver specifically, but then I started second guessing myself because the wiki is a liar. It wasn’t until I looked over some old footage recently that I realized I was remembering correctly and he does do different damage to mobs and players (but not double, which is interesting). Maybe I should’ve kept pushing. It really didn’t take that long for some people to start to pivot though…

I’m kinda surprised it took people so long to realize the player tag isn’t consistent. I think Arcwell mentioned it in a thread very early on.

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Catapults are INCREDIBLY resource intensive

They were moveable after trees which means you could simply carry 3 catapults for daily use.

6 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Woodie's more dubious but people have been becoming more negative on his tree because it does too much.

Due to a poll of General Discussion, Woodie's tree is belongs to the most favourite trees of current DST.

[Grove]

1 minute ago, aidankocherhans said:

They were only suggestions, even if they weren't phrased that way. It's on klei to determine if an idea works with all the internal information they have, they don't need to take our ideas at face value.

Yea.. thing is, a lot of people who wanted it proceeded to act like Klei isn't listening to suggestions. And multiple posts were made just flinging insults.

If a suggestion is made, the whole community agrees on it, then is implemented, then discovered to jave problems acting like it was the devs are monsters for implementing it is just weird.

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Catapults can also get destroyed by hordes haha.

I'm glad to see Abi has an alternative mode like Lunar Abi, which has effect as "Abi could not move after summoned but deal extremely high AoE DPS far from the target area" with only 300 HP.

[Yaorin yon]

14 minutes ago, Dingle said:

There was once a king who made a beautiful palace. It was full of Golden Birds, singing the most beautiful songs. When they laid eggs, the eggs were of pure gold.

Everyone who visited loved this palace.

But one day, a haughty guest visited that was blind in one eye, and deaf in one ear.

He turned his blind eye to the Golden Birds, and said "What is this, a chicken coop?"

He turned his deaf ear to the Golden Birds, and said, "These chickens quack too much! Too much noise!"

He smelled the Golden Birds with his nose (his nose also didn't function) and said "These chickens smell like egg!"(the Golden Birds had a very pleasant smell also)

Only years later, on his deathbed, did the haughty guest realize that he was in the beautiful palace of Golden Birds.

You are like the guest, not realizing the beauty of his surroundings.

The Wendy Skilltree is the beautiful palace, and every branch in the skill tree is a Golden Bird. Every individual perk is like the golden eggs that they laid.

Meanwhile, I am enjoying the full beauty of the skill tree. I am listening to the song of the Golden Birds. I am taking their Golden Eggs, and I am eating their Golden Eggs. They taste so good.

I use part of one Golden Egg, and my positive attitude, to cultivate a potion of Eternal Youth so I can enjoy the skill tree forever.

I hope this helps you understand the power of a positive attitude and that the Wendy skill tree is great.

If it weren't for the skills trees of Watox, Woody, Winona, and Willow, I might have had to agree with you. Unfortunately, the real palace is right next door, and what we visited was a chicken coop. It was like eating a hallucinogenic mushroom, but when the palace was next door, we thought the chicken coop was also a palace, which is a new kind of fable. If you are willing to enjoy it, I also wish you well, but I want to strive for some more beautiful palaces, and I hope you don't think that palaces are chicken coops.

[WenericMember]

Just now, Steorra said:

They were moveable after trees which means you could simply carry 3 catapults for daily use.

Due to a poll of General Discussion, Woodie's tree is belongs to the most favourite trees of current DST.

That's still 45 stone iirc. Maybe I don't enjoy winona's playstyle, but 45 stone in addition to the amount needed for basic startup isn't free imo.

 

Pretty sure that polls decently old, there was some discussion on skill trees recently that had Woodie commonly considered a bit lower.

[DVGMedia]

24 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

That's fair enough. The issue with increasing Abby's HP is that Abigail already borderline broken when dealing with hordes, so doubling her HP would be overkill. The goal was to increase her survivability purely against bosses.

Its just making abby do something better that she was already good at.
Like willow with fire stun or wolf with more damage.

But in abbys case it gives her more utilty in places she struggled  without needing to have strange inconsistances and nerfs

[WenericMember]

Just now, DVGMedia said:

Its just making abby do something better that she was already good at.
Like willow with fire or wolf with more damage.

I disagree because... they weren't good at that at the time.

Wolfgang had just been obliterated by the addition of planar damage normalizing output, and needed more DPS to regain his throne in a post rift environment.

Willow's fire perks... were incredibly situational. I wouldn't have called them especially "good" at either of those capacities at the time the tree was added.

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

45 stone

45 stone for permanent using, it's cheap tbh. And even 30 is enough for overwhelm the power of Abi.

 

7 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Pretty sure that polls decently old, there was some discussion on skill trees recently that had Woodie commonly considered a bit lower.

I don't think so. But I'm glad to see another poll in GD later after the mess of the current beta ended.

[DVGMedia]

1 minute ago, WenericMember said:

I disagree because... they weren't good at that at the time.

Wolfgang had just been obliterated by the addition of planar damage normalizing output, and needed more DPS to regain his throne in a post rift environment.

Willow's fire perks... were incredibly situational. I wouldn't have called them especially "good" at either of those capacities at the time the tree was added.

you telling me that 30 seconds of stun is not overkill?