Final Set of Skill Tree Tweaks

[WenericMember]

With this patch, I think I can confidentially say this skill tree is my favorite in the game. The amount of details, synergy and strength in the tree without being outlandishly broken is amazing. The nerfs in this patch are all fair without being overkill, and makes the tree ultimately feel pretty balance. However, there are still a few tweaks that I think could make the tree feel so much better overall.

Nerfs

• Ghastly Experience makes hp maintain # not %. Pretty simple, make it so that at least 30s is needed to get Abby full up to form. Ghastly experience is already incredibly powerful, but being to heal 450 hp instantly in effect is too strong
• Terrorise needs an increased cool down. It's far too easy to stunlock non-boss mobs as is.

QOL

• Haunt RNG. Been Discussed to death. Ghosts have nothing else to do, Wendy does. the current implementation just wastes time.
• Skill Wheel QOL. It needs to be easier to use in combat, probably beyond the scope of the beta.
• Give Picnic Casket a slot for MG. It's a useful item as is, but MG storage would be nice.
• Decorated Graves should produce MG not Dark Petals. Restores the lines original synergy with flower crafts, adds a non pipspook method of gathering MG for those uninterested, albeit slower, etc.

Buffs

• Wraith's Wreath. Shield perks need utility. Personally i suggest wetness protection and Warmth, but alternatives would also work.
• Perrenial Altar, It's the coolest new craft of Wendy, but is indistinct from meat effigy. Either make it reusable in some form, or have keep inventory.
• Wendy shouldn't be the worst beneficiary of Vengeful Ghost. Maybe make her Vengeful ghost deal planar damage? Just something so she isn't worse than anyone else when using the skill.

[Koomin]

These are all great - I'd also add changing Shadow Abigail vex to not be weirdly super strong against non-planar enemies and weak against planar enemies.  Especially considering it is made from pure horror it seems like it has met the exact opposite of the design intent.

[Ridepod]

Yep yep yep. Agree with all of these. Personally, my only other issue is catching 20 butterflies of literally anything to murder at once to proc shadow abby at times is absolutely tedious and is basically making me always go lunar by default. But I like gestalt abby as is so w/e

[Debruh]

Also, if Shadow Abby having 30 planar defense is still a thing, then that too

4 minutes ago, Ridepod said:

Yep yep yep. Agree with all of these. Personally, my only other issue is catching 20 butterflies to murder at once to proc shadow abby at times is absolutely tedious and is basically making me always go lunar by default. But I like gestalt abby as is so w/e

Bees and killer bees.

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, Ridepod said:

Yep yep yep. Agree with all of these. Personally, my only other issue is catching 20 butterflies of literally anything to murder at once to proc shadow abby at times is absolutely tedious and is basically making me always go lunar by default. But I like gestalt abby as is so w/e

When Wendy does effort to killa boss with 20 butterflies, Wortox already kill the boss instantly with 20 souls by kill those 20 butterflies with soul piercing.

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

3分钟前，Steorra说：

当Wendy努力用20只蝴蝶杀死老板时，Wortox已经用灵魂刺穿杀死了那20只蝴蝶，立即用20个灵魂杀死了老板。

Wendy's skill tree is becoming more and more a joke.

[Koomin]

10 minutes ago, Steorra said:

When Wendy does effort to killa boss with 20 butterflies, Wortox already kill the boss instantly with 20 souls by kill those 20 butterflies with soul piercing.

He can't do this anymore- this was one of the first changes in the beta where the bosses get gunpowder resistance against it.  Mostly everyone was ok with the change because it was pretty questionable gameplay.  But yea this isn't a thing.

[Steorra]

8 minutes ago, Koomin said:

He can't do this anymore- this was one of the first changes in the beta where the bosses get gunpowder resistance against it.  Mostly everyone was ok with the change because it was pretty questionable gameplay.  But yea this isn't a thing.

No, Wortox has still a method to do same thing. You might to test it yourself.

The explosion resistance is nothing to soul piercing.

[Koomin]

Just now, Steorra said:

No, Wortox has still a method to do same thing. You might to test it yourself.

I would love to - can you tell me the method though so I can test it since I clearly am not aware of it?

[yuntunhemudu]

1 hour ago, WenericMember said:

Ghastly Experience makes hp maintain # not %. Pretty simple, make it so that at least 30s is needed to get Abby full up to form. Ghastly experience is already incredibly powerful, but being to heal 450 hp instantly in effect is too strong

The current effect of Ghastly Experience is: normal Abby immediately recovers to 600 hp, Gestalt Abby、 Used Vex's Abby and Shadow Abby to restore 0/600 hp. I don't see any significant issues with this. Could you confirm if Abby in Sisturn 3 state can also immediately recover to 600 hp? If so, I understand why Klei let Abby elixirs heal at half rate in Sisturn 3 state.

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, yuntunhemudu said:

The current effect of Ghastly Experience is: normal Abby immediately recovers to 600 hp, Gestalt Abby、 Used Vex's Abby and Shadow Abby to restore 0/600 hp. I don't see any significant issues with this. Could you confirm if Abby in Sisturn 3 state can also immediately recover to 600 hp? If so, I understand why Klei let Abby elixirs heal at half rate in Sisturn 3 state.

Blessed Sisturn Abigali can recover to max HP in less than 10 seconds.

Abigail on 0hp -> use Cure-All -> Once 150hp, use Ghastly Experience -> Abigail is back to 600hp

[yuntunhemudu]

11 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Blessed Sisturn Abigali can recover to max HP in less than 10 seconds.

Abigail on 0hp -> use Cure-All -> Once 150hp, use Ghastly Experience -> Abigail is back to 600hp

Wow, that's well. I noticed that Gestalt Abby and Shadow Abby are not necessary when playing DST with friends. I can save 3 skill points to use on other branches, and I can have Sisturn 3 and MG 3 at the same time. On the contrary, Ghastly Experience is necessary for me, so I will cultivate a piece of land early in the game to obtain Forget-Me-Lots.

1 minute ago, yuntunhemudu said:

Blessed Sisturn Abigali can recover to max HP in less than 10 seconds.

Abigail on 0hp -> use Cure-All -> Once 150hp, use Ghastly Experience -> Abigail is back to 600hp

If you choose Gestalt Abby and Shadow Abby, Ghastly Experience may not be as user-friendly.

[WenericMember]

2 minutes ago, yuntunhemudu said:

Wow, that's well. I noticed that Gestalt Abby and Shadow Abby are not necessary when playing DST with friends. I can save 3 skill points to use on other branches, and I can have Sisturn 3 and MG 3 at the same time. On the contrary, Ghastly Experience is necessary for me, so I will cultivate a piece of land early in the game to obtain Forget-Me-Lots.

Yeah.

Personally I think it just needs to make it so that an Abigail with 150hp will remain at 150hp after Ghastly experience is used, as that would mean at least 30 seconds is needed to fully recover Abigail's HP, which IMO is a balanced state.

[yuntunhemudu]

10 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Personally I think it just needs to make it so that an Abigail with 150hp will remain at 150hp after Ghastly experience is used, as that would mean at least 30 seconds is needed to fully recover Abigail's HP, which IMO is a balanced state.

There's no need to set it up like this. The potential users of Ghastly Experience are casual players/beginners, and Wendy, who they controlled, must have been seriously injured when Abby died. Ghastly Experience immediately cured Abby, but Wendy, who was severely injured, has not yet been dealt with and still loses the ability to continue fighting.

14 minutes ago, yuntunhemudu said:

There's no need to set it up like this. The potential users of Ghastly Experience are casual players/beginners, and Wendy, who they controlled, must have been seriously injured when Abby died. Ghastly Experience immediately cured Abby, but Wendy, who was severely injured, has not yet been dealt with and still loses the ability to continue fighting.

The healing effect of Ghastly Experience exceeds that of Spectral Cure All only when other characters are taking damage in multiplayer games, Wendy is intact, but Abby dies due to excessive AOE damage.

This is quite reasonable, isn't it. When playing alone, even with Ghastly Experience, one still loses the ability to continue fighting. In multiplayer games, there is no way kiting, so give Abby the ability to heal faster.

[WenericMember]

Bump :3

[Steorra]

5 hours ago, yuntunhemudu said:

There's no need to set it up like this. The potential users of Ghastly Experience are casual players/beginners, and Wendy, who they controlled, must have been seriously injured when Abby died. Ghastly Experience immediately cured Abby, but Wendy, who was severely injured, has not yet been dealt with and still loses the ability to continue fighting.

Sounds logical, makes me more to believe that even beginers would feel inconvenient for Ghastly Elixir.

I believe that to completely remove this elixir for potential improvement of Abi's base survivability would be better. 

Many Veterans think "we already have Ghastly Elixir so we can't have a better survivability Abi or the elixir means nothing".

[WenericMember]

9 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Sounds logical, makes me more to believe that even beginers would feel inconvenient for Ghastly Elixir.

I believe that to completely remove this elixir for potential improvement of Abi's base survivability would be better. 

Many Veterans think "we already have Ghastly Elixir so we can't have a better survivability Abi or the elixir means nothing".

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "inconvenience?"

Is it just material cost?

[Steorra]

9 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "inconvenience?"

Is it just material cost?

To have a better base survivability of Abi makes newcomers have more spare for learning how to manage Abi before Abi dead. Ghastly elixir can't give same effect.

By same logic, to have a better base survivability of Abi would makes Abi lesser to die. If Abi could hold on in the fight, then you need not to flee from the fight or have to restart it.

Ghastly Elixir is just like a simple supply to does its effect by once click and boring waiting (or more inconvenient fleeing and restarting)

 

The most "inconvenient" part is to flee from the fight or restart it. It's bad game play and I don't think majority would enjoy it.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

To have a better base survivability of Abi makes newcomers have more spare for learning how to manage Abi before Abi dead. Ghastly elixir can't give same effect.

By same logic, to have a better base survivability of Abi would makes Abi lesser to die. If Abi could hold on in the fight, then you need not to flee from the fight or have to restart it.

Ghastly Elixir is just like a simple supply to does its effect by once click and boring waiting (or more inconvenient fleeing and restarting)

 

The most "inconvenient" part is to flee from the fight or restart it. It's bad game play and I don't think majority would enjoy it.

Oh you mean having to find an opening to apply potions & resummon Abigail?  Yeah I can see how that would be annoying.

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Oh you mean having to find an opening to apply potions & resummon Abigail?  Yeah I can see how that would be annoying.

Yes, especially for the ghastly elixir it need 2 potions combo to give the intential effect than regular elixirs. More longer animation.

[Siren11]

I have some reservations about Wendy’s skill tree, but ultimately it does what I wanted it to do (though not necessarily in what I would consider the best or most intuitive way). It’s also amazing from an aesthetic perspective. At this point, I would just like the skill tree to go live more than anything else.

These last few changes would really elevate it, especially the QoL suggestions. I would be happy if even the changes to Haunt RNG made it into Wendy’s skill tree, though making the skill wheel a bit easier to use would really be the cherry on top. The devs have done a fantastic job so far, and I hope they take these last few ideas into consideration!

[Y0sH]

On 1/23/2025 at 11:05 PM, Koomin said:

He can't do this anymore- this was one of the first changes in the beta where the bosses get gunpowder resistance against it.  Mostly everyone was ok with the change because it was pretty questionable gameplay.  But yea this isn't a thing.

I've tested it several times, it doesn't work as it did when the Beta first dropped in fact it's less efficient than just attacking normally. A waste of time and souls just to kill a Boss way slower than normal.

[Debruh]

1 hour ago, Y0sH said:

I've tested it several times, it doesn't work as it did when the Beta first dropped in fact it's less efficient than just attacking normally. A waste of time and souls just to kill a Boss way slower than normal.

Pretty sure that this was stated before. But people just ignored and acted as if Wortox could still do this to justify buffing Wendy

[WenericMember]

6 hours ago, Siren11 said:

I have some reservations about Wendy’s skill tree, but ultimately it does what I wanted it to do (though not necessarily in what I would consider the best or most intuitive way). It’s also amazing from an aesthetic perspective. At this point, I would just like the skill tree to go live more than anything else.

These last few changes would really elevate it, especially the QoL suggestions. I would be happy if even the changes to Haunt RNG made it into Wendy’s skill tree, though making the skill wheel a bit easier to use would really be the cherry on top. The devs have done a fantastic job so far, and I hope they take these last few ideas into consideration!

Yeah, thats how i feel too.

[Steorra]

On 1/24/2025 at 10:48 AM, WenericMember said:

Give Picnic Casket a slot for MG. It's a useful item as is, but MG storage would be nice.

This is strange. Picnic basket is served for picnic, but foods and snacks could not be put into the basket slot. I could understand no reason to make MG being available for the basket. 

I mean, maybe butterfly wings and lune blossoms first? (All of them are eatable)

On 1/24/2025 at 10:48 AM, WenericMember said:

Decorated Graves should produce MG not Dark Petals

Many people being stubborn to against the auto production of MG (even in few efficiency way). I'm doubt that if this would happen or not.

Though, the main factor of no changes to MG production might because of dev's stubbornness.