Epireum Posted January 23, 2025 Share Posted January 23, 2025 PREFACE Hello everyone. Thanks for coming to read my thoughts. I appreciate the effort of it and I put a TLDR at the bottom of every paragraph for those of you that want to skim. Hope it helps. Honestly, this post is probably useless. Devs might be set on what they want, don't want to change things, or it's too late, but I put a lot of effort into this so I thought I should post it. At worst, I just wasted time writing and thinking all this, at best, maybe my ideas help somewhere. First off, I want to thank Klei for working hard on the game and giving us the chance to voice our opinions with actual consideration. Half of this will be my thoughts on my experience playing the beta, and the other half will be ideas and suggestions based upon that, Wendy's lore, and all the comments I've read by other people in the forums. I hope the information can be useful for idea spurring or at least be an interesting read. I don't necessarily want any of the suggestions I made to happen, I just tried my best to give ideas based upon the lore and idea of Wendy which I describe more below. TLDR: Ty Klei; Just my thoughts and ideas. Stuff might be janky 'cause I wrote it while sick with covid & also had to rewrite it because the browser crashed and I lost some of it ------ BACKGROUND I think Wendy's lack of lore is something that makes it difficult to give proper cohesion in theme so I will be following a few points to base my ideas off that. I've been playing DST for over 11 years maining Wendy the entire time with 13 years of mmorpgs, and 10 years of other games like minecraft, league, idv, etc. The reason I chose her in the beginning was her description sounded like Minion Master class, which was my favorite class in MMOs when I could find it, (followed by healer). The moment the skill trees were revealed, it heavily felt like an MMO tree branch. Think Diablo 1 and 2. I remember reading some discussion on here on what Wendy's class would be without it interfering with others that have or haven't arrived. While Wendy felt like a Necromancer, with Wortox being "blood magic", I felt unsure of going that route with Wendy anymore since Blood Magic is often used for MMs healing of their summons. For the others, Willow is a glass canon mage with a 'golem' summon, maxwell will probably be a shadowmancer with weak 'skeleton' army, and Webber feels more like starcraft micromanaging to me (someone mentioned pikman but I haven't played it). I also avoided alchemy classification since Wilson is it with his transmutation of items. So after thinking on it like that, looking at her aesthetic with the ouija board, her comments, etc, I'll be basing my ideas off her being a Witch, as it seems inbetween and witch's can be any alignment. They are just for themselves basically, and that's what Wendy does. She also deals with spirits more than she does undead, so, a Spirit Witch. The other things I will be basing it off is her love for her sister Abigail (obvious), and her interest in flowers (the botany book from the lore video, her idle pose, hair accessories, also that one image of the pressed flowers in her diary and the 'talk to the dead' medium circle, etc.) TLDR: Wendy seems similar to MM & others so I went by "Spirit Witch" classification, her love for Abigail, and flower motif as themes for her skill tree ------ EXPERIENCE Overall, I didn't really use much of her new skill tree, which was a bit saddening. As a basic summary before going into individual ones, the skill I utilized the most was the Fear command. I'd steal eggs and fear the tallbirds, and it was fun, and I liked not having to kill stuff. I disliked the casket and potions line the most maybe, (I found graves somewhat useless). I never found a use for the casket, and the potions I felt could just be better in general. I also hated the crown; too clunky and I got a lantern on like week one vs finding a pipspook, which took a lot longer. I felt a little burdened by the skill of Sisturn 3; I barely fight bosses with her so taking it doesn't aid me much but not taking it makes me feel like I'm losing out, sort of like not playing your League of Legends main's META build because you hate that playstyle but it's the only viable way for that champ currently or you'll have to OTP something else. It felt a little forced in that way. I feel there is also a lack of diverse strategies for her skilltree as it feels like everything is *necessary* while simultaneously can go without. TLDR: I didn't enjoy the tree much as an 11 year Wendy main. Fave was Fear command; most conflicted by Sisturn 3. ------ SKILLS This is my idea of the skills individually if I had thoughts on them and any alterations I'd make to them or otherwise, and in not particular order. Picnic Casket I will probably never make or utilize the basket, nor the whole branch in its current form, which is saddening. I saw videos of people doing boss runs with the beta tree and none of them had the basket either. I think maybe if we were allowed to at least put the mourning glories in there, it would be better, but even then, that's one more click to do when dealing with emergency issues. I personally would much prefer if we could put the potions on her flower again, as, besides the learning curve and retraining muscle memory, it is also annoying accidentally clicking a potion mid fight and giving her baby heals when you just gave her a big heal because you misclicked your weapon or other item. My personal preference would be to allow the materials of flowers to be placed in there without them expiring along with the potions. This way, we can gather materials and not need 5 million bundling wraps which don't stack. Or even slowing its degrading, but by a large amount, as putting them in the fridge even with constant new petals being added, they expire pretty fast. This is, however, probably too op though. As for its use, I can only ever see myself using it if the potions were altered, aka no crown, so that way, I can drink them more and give them out more to teammates, like somewhat Barmaid form Identity V. The crown requirement currently, makes me uninterested in the branch. TLDR: Would never use unless Mourning Glories can go in it or Crown req is removed or altered. Maybe allow for flowers/petals to be stored with less or no expiratory, but worried it might be op. Vengeful Ghost I think I read on the forums that this was for new players as an extra assist, so going by that, I think this skill would be better in this way: Become trapped between life and death where you are untargetable for 3-5 seconds (or whatever's fair), giving you the chance to die somewhere safe so your stuff doesn't burn or your food doesn't get eaten. You can swap stuff in your inventory but not use it, so store food in backpack but can't use life giving amulet, or maybe you can, allowing you to put the amulet on and ress when you die. But no weapon use was my intention with the above. You could still in theory keep the aoe damage with this either during spectral phase but preferably after upon death but I think keeping your items from being eaten by slurtles or spiders or fire to be more useful and eye catching to newer players. (I had asked some of my friends who play more for the farming than fighting and they liked this idea and gave me the idea of transferring items to the backpack so it doesn't get eaten.) TLDR: Idea to change skill to a delay death skill where you become intangible for some seconds and can go die somewhere safer so your items don't burn/eaten Blessed Sisturn III I initially found this skill to be the best skill in her tree, and while I still think it is, the Lune Blossoms in the Sisturn make this more tedious than I'd like. We do plan a lot of boss fights, but there are other times when it just happens, so there aren't always petals chilling in the Sisturn for that. It also feels a little wasteful to only use them for that one day. I could rebundle them or let them expire since I have a Lune farm but it's just, the tediousness of it. I gotta prep potions, I gotta get mourning glories, I gotta chop trees and bug net, etc. The Casket Idea would make me feel a lot better about this but even so, I feel like if the skill takes a lot of points to get, it shouldn't only be active when the Sisturn has Lune petals in it. If anything, make it a secondary potion. Still use Lune Petals, but now I can make it whenever at least, especially in tandem with my Casket Idea changes. Beyond this, I do also feel the skill could be adjusted. I've read through the forums of many Wendy players and many think it's too OP while many others say it's not enough. I don't know if it should be removed completely or adjusted, but I had a small idea that might be good: Give the made up "Spectral" tag instead. It takes a damage reduction between player and mob from Bosses. So if player takes 50 and mob takes 200, Abigail now takes 125. Then add a second passive of Hostile mob damage reduced by 5-10%, something small and not op. Programming: checks for Boss classification first, then if boss damage is reduced by 0 when comparing mob and player (I think some people said this happens with certain bosses like Celestial Champion or something?) and if 0, apply Hostile reduction, and then if not that it then checks for hostile and applies hostile reduction. This way, its less op on the end, and gives a slight edge to non boss fighting players against hostile everyday mobs without affecting the neutral pig/bunny farms nor passive mobs. Biggest benefit, albeit small, would probably be against mid-level mobs like depth worms and frog rain. There's also the option of changing it or adding to it health upgrade lvl 4 with Blessed 3or4. Blessed 1-3 or 2-4 could add 50, 100, then 150, giving a total of 900 on her lvl 4 timed upgrading. Some suggest 1200, but I think it's too much in the lower levels, which is also why I staggered the health upgrades as such. This seems a bit much but for players that don't get lune blossoms because it is not their playstyle, this might be a better alternative without adding a whole other branch. TLDR: It's okay but hate needing petals in Sisturn. Would be more tolerable if in a secondary potion form, or in tandem with my casket idea. Alt idea: change tag to take damage between player and mob for said boss, then add hostile dmg red for hostiles that is a small % like 5. Other idea: add in tandem or change to health increments to total per skill level of +50, 100, then 150, totaling 900 at end. PS: I like the idea of Sisturn II but not as an upgrade to being near the Sisturn. If it's just more or easier sanity aura but have to be around the Sisturn to do it, I'm out. Top hats are cheap and easy. Lunar Shadow Affinity I don't really have much to say here since I never tested this out and have never bothered to kill Celestial Champion, and I don't know anything about planar damage or post rift stuff, but I have read many people's complaints ont eh forums so if this helps, I tried to come up with *something*: Gestalt Abigail is glass canon - no dodge during atk, a higher damage than base Abi, regular Abigail health, and single targeting attacks (no aoe) that are slow (I remember reading someone saying devs thought of her as a sniper? so I based this off that), Shadow Abigail could then be tankier health wise (so damage reducution modifiers don't op stack with current Blessed 3), while keeping her regular damage and aoe. I also had the idea of giving each of them a unique passive on a last upgrade. I saw someone mention Gestalt Abi causing sleep which I thought was a cute idea and is in theme with gestalts. Ex: Gestalt Abi causes sleep to targets she attacks every ## secodns (make it fair; it'll be like a skill passive. Works like Ice Staff stacking and how it varies on different mobs.) Has regular gestalt sleep rules so if you touch it, it wakes up. Either way, this could give way for some strategies in fights for variety. Shadow's unique could be being able to fight nightmare creatures. It's not as fancy as the sleep, but I think this is maybe more than the other. Also, maybe some kind of potion crafted at the moon table on full moon to change Abigail back to normal without waiting for the dial to turn or an expensive one that makes her temporarily a gestalt for like half a day or something short for emergency fights. I actually don't know how to get Shadow Abigail but if the wiki is right... I hate it? I do know that I absolutely do not like the murdering gimmick at all, absolutely hate. Also, in a lore sense, it's kind of, inefficient? Lots of murders for just this amount. Maybe it could vary by mob size or difficulty or just be something completely different. Probably just easier to ham bat stuff with her instead, however. TLDR: Idk anything about post rifts. I hate murdering in my inventory. It's sad, I cry. ------ Notice: from this point onward, I rewrote everything in a rush at 3am and was very tired and I'm still kind of ill. Sorry for tone shift. ------ PIPSPOOKS I personally didn't care much for the pipspook shortening skills. They do the job but it feels like a lot of points for small efforts that I feel like I'm wasting points when I could put it on other potentially more interesting skills. That said, I have read people's opinions of the pipspook quest here on the forums and I noticed some people were interested in something less mind-numbing, so, instead of shortening it, I tried to make it more lively. It could still come with shortening aspects in tandem or just be removed altogether. Example line: lvl1 - shorter distance & more MG rewarded. lvl2 - chance to find an unmarked pipspook grave (during pipspook quest) that gives random simple materials (maybe stuff you find in graves or stuff for potions). You can ignore them like trials and they'll disappear. Put a memorial on it (decorate it or smth) to send off the metaphorical ghost and it'll reward with stuff. [potential here to include further faster pipspook stuff from current beta or have the tree split] lvl3 - chance to spawn a bound bigspook from the unmarked graves. Free it (give it a specific item, use abigail cc, a potion might be best since Wendy specific quest) to get a buff. Idk, maybe it provides a shield of certain amount for Wendy or gives Abigail extra damage on her next 5 seconds of attack, free mini CC, additional slow to the slow skill, gives a free 3 second abigail attack spin, light, idk, something. Can't stack ghost "buffs". [Also, maybe using a specific potion during the quest or Abigail haunting it or idk, causes it to guarantee the unmarked grave is a Bigspook vs a Pipspook.] This isn't very polished since this is where I lost my post and had to revert to scraggly notes but yeah. This is the gist I remember. TLDR: something more engaging maybe? Less brain-off and more thought provoking options? Idk, it's 5am and I'm dying. ------ POTIONS I'd change the potions to not use the hat. It was clunky and I instead would have done upgrades. You get the skill, and are then allowed to upgrade potions to be drinkable by wendy through crafting. So you craft regular potion, then add certain petal combos wahtever to make it drinkable by Wendy. Then you get a different upgrade, more different and probably more expensive materials, to be drinkable by other players. The potions would stack down in use, as in basic potion only used by Abigail, enhanced potion by Wendy and Abigail, all potion by all and wendy and abigail. so you don't have to carry multiple stacks if you lazy. I'd also just change the butterfly thing into petals and vice versa or something and just allow us to turn regular petals into dark petals. It seems to synergize with the murder skill as you could revive the butterflies and murder them again but it seems kind of expensive. Here's some random potion ideas: >Spectral Shroud - This is mostly for Wendy and others drinking the potions. I would either make a new one or swap out one of the shield ones or add it to the night vision one, for a potion idea I have called "Spectral Shroud". Drinking it makes it so you are somewhere between life and death and I imagine the screen changing to a pale blue for aesthetics. It allows you to become intangible and untargetable while using it but you can't do any actions either or it'll end. It has a short duration. This way, you and abigail can both escape danger together. This potion I also use for other ideas I have as a prerequisate. >Indure Potion - Any attack that kills you while under the potions effects instead transfers the damage to Abigail, leaving you at 10 health, or something low. Think Indure skill in pokemon. >Second life - A potion, if you die while under its affects, you don't. Basically a life giving amulet. Must be drunk prior. >Life steal potion - When Wendy drinks potion, every auto steals life from enemy in proportion to the damage you do. (it should be small, like less than the bat bat for bat bat damage) only lasts 30 seconds or something short. TLDR: upgrade potions to be drunk vs using the flower hat; spectral potion idea to become intangible ------ GRAVES I just found it not that enjoyable. The farms people make are cute and using them for bosses is interesting, but it seems like a lot and I found other methods to be easier. I don't really have much to say about it, but if I were to adjust it: Wendy can make a witch's garden graveyard whatever you wanna call it for lore, with the alotted 4 required ghosts (i'd turn it into 6 but I'm using what people said was the max ghosts that could spawn in a graveyard area but this isn't a graveyard so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) within a certain proximity utilizing memorials or altars (this way they aren't graves spawning random ghosts around your friends). A quick mock of this: This is part of the garden line or graves or whatever lvl1 allows for altar crafting and decorating headstones. lvl2 is placing 4/6 altars clsoe together creating a "garden" and can move and create headstones. You can decorate the altars with certain stuff to get a pipspook or a bigspook then haunt it with Abigail to summon said ghost. Each pipspook spawns 1 flower every idk day (something fair and slow), with a max of 4/6 that'll sit in the garden (twiggy tree rules of vacinity). You can use these pipspooks for quest minigames for mourning glories, this way, if you don't wanna do the other quest, you got this option. Quest minigames will depend on how many pipspooks you have, and will be randomized. With just 1, maybe fetch quest where you present 3 items it asks for (like sticks, rocks, easy stuff) within the time limit, you win a bunch of mourning glories (and get your items back). If there's 4, maybe you play like simon says up to 5 colors. Each ghost will be a color and you gotta click on them or stand near them, something. They glow or dance to show which one is next. Gives more because there are more ghosts. Can make the quests based on participationg despite losing so you get something as long as you try, so you can't afk farm them. If you have 4/6 (whatever max is) Pipspooks in your garden, you can summon one anywhere. It'll remove it from your garden and you can do a regular quest. This is only if you got max pipspook and there's a cooldown on it. (Use sleeping in the tent near christmas trees for gifts mechanics for ref or something but make it long like half a season. The idea is for emergencies if away from base or if you have pipspooks that are super far away and you don't move graves) If you have 4/6 (max) Bigspooks adds more durations or amounts to CC skills seen below. Some are: higher slow duration to the made up Slow CC skill wendy does. More Bigspooks, the more the slow. Make it small though so it's fair. Same goes for the Life Steal DoT channeling spell in terms of how much your target gets from the amount of damage done which is still small like smaller than jellybean at max or something, and all other potential spells that I list in the spell section (They are just random skills that Wendy can do so she can provide more assist to Abigail) Altars can be placed anywhere and if you don't haunt them, you can decorate them accordingly for Ressurection/fast travel. Fast travel requires you drink a made up Spectral Potion so that you are half dead half alive lore wise and allows you to travel through pre-established Altars. However, it uses altar you come out of and destroys it. Make and higher tier skill that allows Wendy to be seen by ghosts as part ghost so they allow fast travel without the potion but it should require a lot of points or cause health/sanity consequences upon exit. It also wont destroy the altar, maybe. (idk, maybe it's too op and just always need a potion, but I mostly did this so the altars aren't just exact 1:1 to meat effigies.) This also lets you use the casket more if the casket can store petals and stuff to make altars so you can bring your friends through by spam crafting with horded materials. A full garden of any assortment of ghosts also maybe spawns flowers/petals of any type randomized based on percentage either on the floor to be picked or picked up from an altar. Or, the moon phases change what types of flowers smawn in it. Alternative ideas for the ressurection stone would be using flowers TLDR: Didn't find use. Idea: Garden to summon pipspooks and bigspooks to twiggy tree spawn mourning glories if pipspooks and quickie quests or bigspooks to enhance cc durations and battle skills. ------ ABILITIES I had some ideas for Wendy having potential skills added to the wheel menu in order to assist Abigail with CC versus damage. It would be on the same CD timer as the Abigail Skills. The skills would be affected by how many Bigspooks you have in your designated graveyard. >Grasping Hands - It's a slow. You channel and summon an aoe area that slows mobs down but not ghosts or players. I imagine it like spectral hands reaching out and slowing them down, like the ghost pool in Hercules. The area is a decent size (didn't plan on it being size adjustable but maybe?) but the slow duration is affected by the Bigspooks amount. 5-15% slow or something. Those are just random percentages since I don't have a concept of them, but basically whatever is fair and not op. >Spirit life transfer -Life steal spell, basically. It's channeling so you cannot move, and you obviously need a target to take life from and a target to give it to. It is slow, and it doesn't give op amounts, just small, similar to jelly beans, but worse maybe. Basically so you can give Abigail extra healing if need be, or another player. You can only take health from mobs, maybe even only hostile ones, and maybe yourself. Skill blocked from use if you're below a certain health number. The more Bigspooks you have, the more health that's taken or given, something, but still small in general. I didn't come up with too many as using other characters as an example, when they got new skills, it wasn't very many, like 1-4. >Life transferal - Channeling spell but you walk as slow as carrying a statue or through the ruptured grounds. 2-3 second channeling spell and whatever is inside at the end, you life steal from them all a little bit causing damage and healing you (and maybe abigail). Like Vlad E from league. life steal potion. >Pulled back -Abigail high CD skill in action tandem with Wendy so it's a channeling spell where you can revive someone on the spot, together. Lore would be pulling them back from the grave TLDR: ability CC skill ideas on the Abigail menu, but for Wendy. ------ SCRAPPED IDEAS Ideas I had that I thought were too op or didn't fit for one reason or another: >Storage - Summon one of the bigspooks/pipspooks from your garden to give them items to take home for you. They act as a bundling wrap so stuff doesn't spoil because they are ghosts and they hold your items in limbo land. You cannot retrieve stuff from them, it is just a 1 way thing, and doing so uses a ghost from your designated garden. >Reverse marking - Like Abigail gives you a damage buff on stuff she hits for a certain amount of time, you give Abigail a life steal buff on her hit on stuff you hit for a certain amount of time. Like Font of Life in League. > Alternatively, in reverse, so everything Abigail hits, you get life steal on which I thought for the Shadow Affinity but eh- > Alternative to the Second life potion - Wendy Abigail channel skill in a casted radius circle where it stops all damage and cc done to everyone within it for so many seconds that it lasts up. League kindred ult. Gives you time to heal up. >AOE range increase - self explanitory >Splash potions - throw them on your friends or abi or both yall for buffs, not that they'll give you and abi the same buff but yeah. TLDR: They're scrapped ideas, probably not good ------ CLOSING My goal of this post wasn't to say I want things this way or that way, it was just a way to bring about more ideas. I really want a tree that all of us can both use and majoritively enjoy while also making it customizable as players have many different playstyles. I know I'm not very knowledgable so if I got any of the facts wrong, lmk so I can edit it. TLDR: Thank you for reading my thoughts. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163288-its-late-but-my-thoughts-experience-on-wendy-beta-tree/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steorra Posted January 23, 2025 Share Posted January 23, 2025 I would agree with most of your opinions, and for others, I may have some different opinions but I would like to accept yours if Klei think yours are better. It could see through from this post that you're a genuine Wendy player. You have pointed out many issues for the current tree precisely. And I believe that the work of this post need much efforts and enthusiastism. Good job. Hoping Klei would take your feedback carefully for more future potential adjustments. Additionally, It's very glad to see your ideas about the vengeful ghost. Yours seems more suitable for the original design intention of this skill, which may designed for newcomers. To change it as yours would helps a lot to newcomers than the current strange one. The current one only have flavour but completely useless... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163288-its-late-but-my-thoughts-experience-on-wendy-beta-tree/#findComment-1787581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yifei_ Posted January 23, 2025 Share Posted January 23, 2025 I really appreciate your detailed analysis and feedback! Regarding the Picnic Casket, I feel it's quite good. One of the reasons I didn't like the potions before was the hassle of managing the inventory, but this skill addresses that pain point. However, I strongly support your idea of allowing Mourning Glory to be placed in the Picnic Casket. I think your feedback on Vengeful Ghost is quite good. In terms of practicality, there are just too many ways to die in DST, and for a significant portion of those deaths, this skill is useless. When it comes to Affinity, my perspective is slightly different. In my tests against bosses, Shadow Abigail deals higher damage, so it might be more appropriate to make Shadow Abigail a glass cannon. I feel that the design intention for Lunar Abigail should be to enhance her survival ability in one-on-one combat, even if her damage is lower. But like you, I also think that the transformation conditions for Lunar are too complicated, and the trigger conditions for Shadow are a bit uncomfortable. I really like your analysis and ideas about Pipspook. My experience with the Mourning Glory II skill tree is basically the same as yours. Spoiler 很喜欢你细致的分析和反馈！ 对于花篮我感觉还好，我之前不喜欢药水的原因之一就是物品栏管理麻烦，但这个技能解决了这个痛点。不过我非常支持你的让哀悼荣耀可以放在花篮中的想法。 我认为你提的关于Vengeful Ghost的反馈很不错。从实用性上来讲，饥荒里的死法太多了，面对相当一部分的死法这个技能都没有任何用处。 对于阵营的方面，我的观点稍微有些不同。因为在面对boss时，我的测试中影阿比的伤害更高，可能让影阿比成为玻璃大炮更合适。我感觉月阿比的设计思路应该是让她在面对单体作战时有更好的生存能力，她的伤害低一些都行。不过和你一样，我也认为月阿比的转化条件过于繁琐、影阿比的触发条件有些让人不舒服。 我很喜欢你关于小惊吓的分析和想法。关于哀悼荣耀II技能分支我的体验与你基本一致。 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163288-its-late-but-my-thoughts-experience-on-wendy-beta-tree/#findComment-1787587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaorin yon Posted January 23, 2025 Share Posted January 23, 2025 Your article is really, really wonderful and thoughtful. Although I have translated it for a long time, it is quite worth it! My favorite part is about "cemetery", and I have seen this design in other articles before (I don't know if you have seen it or if you mind me sharing it here). This kind of growth oriented design is very attractive to me, and building a cemetery and creating a quiet ghost settlement is even more atmospheric. Compared to simply moving tombstones and writing epitaphs like wooden plaques, summoning ghost followers, it is obviously much better. And through your help, allowing the helped ghost to enhance your other abilities is even more meaningful, while closely linking skills together. Overall, I really hope that the content in your article is something I can actually play with. (I have also experienced browser crashes, which was the most painful time for me. Thank you for your hard work.) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163288-its-late-but-my-thoughts-experience-on-wendy-beta-tree/#findComment-1787613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmAFurrz Posted January 23, 2025 Share Posted January 23, 2025 9 hours ago, Epireum said: Overall, I didn't really use much of her new skill tree, which was a bit saddening. As a basic summary before going into individual ones, the skill I utilized the most was the Fear command. I'd steal eggs and fear the tallbirds, and it was fun, and I liked not having to kill stuff. I disliked the casket and potions line the most maybe, (I found graves somewhat useless). I never found a use for the casket, and the potions I felt could just be better in general. I also hated the crown; too clunky and I got a lantern on like week one vs finding a pipspook, which took a lot longer. I felt a little burdened by the skill of Sisturn 3; I barely fight bosses with her so taking it doesn't aid me much but not taking it makes me feel like I'm losing out, sort of like not playing your League of Legends main's META build because you hate that playstyle but it's the only viable way for that champ currently or you'll have to OTP something else. It felt a little forced in that way. I feel there is also a lack of diverse strategies for her skilltree as it feels like everything is *necessary* while simultaneously can go without. TLDR: I didn't enjoy the tree much as an 11 year Wendy main. Fave was Fear command; most conflicted by Sisturn 3. this sounds like you didnt play wendy at all, and neither did you interact with the coolest part of it being teamspirit ??? and 'lack of diverse strategies' i find is the most baffling as i have seen others, as well as myself, fiund a comfy combination, as well as abi being able to do whatever i want (aside from some bugs) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163288-its-late-but-my-thoughts-experience-on-wendy-beta-tree/#findComment-1787735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epireum Posted January 23, 2025 Author Share Posted January 23, 2025 44 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said: this sounds like you didnt play wendy at all, and neither did you interact with the coolest part of it being teamspirit ??? and 'lack of diverse strategies' i find is the most baffling as i have seen others, as well as myself, fiund a comfy combination, as well as abi being able to do whatever i want (aside from some bugs) Hi! Thank you for commenting. I played several days until I tested out all branches but the affinity ones. I'm glad you and others found a comfy combination though! I, however, just didn't find most branches that useful and I've seen others mention also feeling the tree is lacking at best. I also don't know if you didn't read everything, but I mentioned my favorite was the fear command xD (I might've got the name wrong) which I think is team spirit, no? It's okay though, I know it's long and maybe could've been skimmed too quickly or misunderstood with my writing style but I'll try to be more clear about it with proper terminology if I edit it ^^ and you can always refer to the TLDRs at the bottom if they are too long! But yes, to answer you directly, team spirit was my favorite branch which I mentioned I actually enjoyed it ^^ @Steorra Thank y'all for commenting and sharing y'alls perspectives and personal experiences with the beta <3 I really like to to know others opinions as I think it's helpful in gathering data for a more rounded character creation. @Yifei_ Ah! You just reminded me, since the post deleted, I forgot to rewrite my playstyle to compare with the current casket, ty for remind me xD I usually just carry MG, Glands, & Living Logs at all times to make the potions on an as needed basis. I will add this in later when I return to PC xD @Yaorin yon And yes, you can share whatever links here! I'd love to take a look at others more carefully EDIT: ah, the forums automatically initiated replies merged? Sorry about that! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163288-its-late-but-my-thoughts-experience-on-wendy-beta-tree/#findComment-1787756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaorin yon Posted January 24, 2025 Share Posted January 24, 2025 thank you! Although the latest update has caused me a lot of pain and discomfort. But I still want to continue sharing these great posts with you. Hope you're interested! Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163288-its-late-but-my-thoughts-experience-on-wendy-beta-tree/#findComment-1787837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epireum Posted January 28, 2025 Author Share Posted January 28, 2025 UPDATE This is just a clarification update post to my original with some additional information and more details. EXPERIENCE - Teamspirit So, I did want to explain clearly that yes, Teamspirit branch was actually my favorite part of the entire Wendy Skill Tree with the "Fear" command, named 'Scare' according to the wiki, being my favorite part of it. I previously described my use with it in the Experience section with the Tallbird reference. To further elaborate, I tried the fear command with several groupings and singles, such as spiders, frogs, moosegoose, tallbirds, pigs, etc., and found it very fun to use, the most use in the test world being against Tallbirds as I would fear them and then steal their eggs xD. I used the haunt feature often as well to change the flowers to dark petals several times for recipes. I also mention it in other parts of my topic post that I use the Haunt command as a precursor for some of my example ideas of possible skill tree options such as with haunting graves to finish the summoning ritual for your personalized garden to bring in either a Bigspook or Pipspook for said garden. The dash/attack-here command I also quite liked but found it a bit buggy. Abigail would not auto attack sometimes after doing it and I noticed her actually dying more when I used it than without. My longest average test with it being with Mactusk as it was easy to chase him down but she ended up nearly dying since she wouldn't auto him after the dash, even on aggro-mode. It was very strange but I just assumed it was a bug and would be fixed during the final, but I might be assuming too much. It could also be done on purpose. I do like the idea of it though and find it useful for several situations. I also tried it on Deerclops but it felt like for bosses like that, it took too long and I ended up kiting Deerclops myself in the end as it was faster when I was timing it, but it could be a learning curve. The escape, I tried a few times, but I didn't find it doing what I needed it to do when I needed it. I play in a style where my quick reaction is important and even a second can make a difference (think League combos, sidestepping, skillshots, etc.), so I found that unsummoning her, even at the cost of my sanity, saved her more often than the casting time of her whisper animation to go intangible. Also, not necessary, and it was just an idea I had from other games, but for maximizing clicks and speed efficiency, the wheel could be a list above wherever the flower is, like an extra hotbar, and you can click there. So it's less distance and not in the middle of the screen. There's also the option to make all the skills bindable to like alt+1 or ctrl+2, etc. I don't use the number keys so if possible, I might just unbind them from my backpack and instead put the abigail skills on them. That way, we get faster access to them and, if the skill wheel fills up with more skills in the future, it won't be that packed in the middle of the screen. I also recently saw someone mentioning about how the game for non-pc devices is difficult and the pop up actions menu for Abigail's skills was too bulky and difficult along with commanding her in general. I don't have any references off the top of my head of other games that had MMs with controllers, but maybe something like Pikmin? Never played it, but it might cycle through the skills then you can select them or bind commonly used ones to some of the front buttons. CASKET and POTION Mechanics - experience | specifically, how I make and use potions I normally carry around Glands, Living logs, and Mourning Glories to craft my 3 used potions on the go. I do this for several reasons: my partner uses the glands sometimes too and I use the living logs both on the surface and in the caves for my mushroom planters. I usually carry these because I can continuously stack materials on the go (such as killing spiders which are everywhere, or doing pipspook quests) and if my inventory is full, (which, I'll be honest, is somewhat often when I go adventuring lol) crafting the potion I need at the time I need it, allows it to go into my hand if I am over-encumbered and then I can just directly apply it to Abigail's flower. During the Beta, when I had a full inventory, the potion was in my hand but I could not utilize it since it is now a right click option versus applying it to the flower. This was one of the reason why I wished applying potions to Abigail could be returned to the pre-beta status. This would also allow us to right click the potions for ourselves instead, just like every other character does, as I feel, besides retraining muscle memory, it would be better when giving it to your friends if they could just right click it, without needing to make a Crown for every person in your group so you can all get night vision or healing. I think the Basket in general is a nice idea, and I see a lot of people like it too, but I do think they should let us at least put Mourning Glories in it. If they did, for me personally, I could excuse using it as it would not take up the slot in my inventory that had Mourning Glories, thus, not adding another slot taken. Spoiler @IAmAFurrz Hope this is more clear for you to understand since you said you didn't have a lot of time before ~! It's just so much longer xD Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163288-its-late-but-my-thoughts-experience-on-wendy-beta-tree/#findComment-1790387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Civecilim Posted January 28, 2025 Share Posted January 28, 2025 On 1/23/2025 at 6:43 AM, Epireum said: Become trapped between life and death where you are untargetable for 3-5 seconds (or whatever's fair), giving you the chance to die somewhere safe so your stuff doesn't burn or your food doesn't get eaten I think this is also pretty worthless of a skill but I very much prefer it to what currently exists. Nice idea. 3-5 seconds seems pathetically little. I think closer to 30 seconds would be appropriate (I'm imagining that during these 30 seconds, you can't attack or haunt or do anything other than move, the only purpose of the skill is to reposition the items that you're about to spew everywhere) Maybe you got shanked on the edge of a cave land mass. Rather than risk losing some of your stuff to the void, you have to opportunity to fly to the middle of a land mass. Maybe you should be allowed to manipulate your inventory during this time? You can drop items, maybe put some food into the backpack that you're wearing so that it isn't eaten? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163288-its-late-but-my-thoughts-experience-on-wendy-beta-tree/#findComment-1790392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steorra Posted January 28, 2025 Share Posted January 28, 2025 On 1/24/2025 at 6:14 AM, IAmAFurrz said: this sounds like you didnt play wendy at all Ignoring almost the whole thread with a randomly accusation based on selective facts (or selective sentences from OP), to give every "friendly" response to those who you think they are outsiders or a member from a mysterious group - that's the first reason why we have such mess here. I have no idea where the OP offended or triggered you. But you r friendly reply is impressive. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163288-its-late-but-my-thoughts-experience-on-wendy-beta-tree/#findComment-1790441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmAFurrz Posted January 28, 2025 Share Posted January 28, 2025 3 hours ago, Epireum said: My longest average test with it being with Mactusk as it was easy to chase him down but she ended up nearly dying since she wouldn't auto him after the dash, even on aggro-mode you should make it so walrus runs towards you (running from abigail), so you can just attack it. its the most convenient thing about the attack command, its much more versatile than just scaring things (also if you have trouble with making abi stay alive after doing the command, youre likely using her at low health so thats just lack of situational awareness) 3 hours ago, Epireum said: I also tried it on Deerclops but it felt like for bosses like that, it took too long and I ended up kiting Deerclops myself in the end as it was faster when I was timing it, but it could be a learning curve it is a learning curve. if you want an easy answer, tanking weak bosses with armor and healing (now very convenient with wreath) is the fastest and easiest way to do them. if you want to use attack command to make abi dodge, you must keep in mind that you ALWAYS have to do it early so you can dodge + abi dodge, so simple step away, abi stops attacking, make her leave deerclops' range (if you use this method you should use vigor mortis so abi will go into deerclops faster) a lot of the attack command using experience is just needing to rethink how you do the fight a bit, as it is a very fun tool (it is not low-skill floor as wendy's abigail, its medium skill level requirement that requires some testing and thinkin). some bosses are a lot simpler in terms of using abi than you think and i love attack command for diversifying how you can play with abigail 3 hours ago, Epireum said: if my inventory is full, (which, I'll be honest, is somewhat often when I go adventuring lol) its a common issue i had before, which is why i nowadays only carry little on my character (lantern, pigskin + grass if i need football helms, which i dont need often as wendy, marble suit and weapon if there is any boss like spiderqueen/moosegoose in spring/deerclops/bearger). cleaning inventory is what i never see people discussing, as they often gloss over the basics. i have been learning more and more to negate that issue and now i see myself doing it often to utilize using magiluminescence to walk around faster without a beefalo 3 hours ago, Epireum said: This would also allow us to right click the potions for ourselves instead i agree, right clicking on wreath is so weird (but its not detrimental to gameplay or anything so i can work with either) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163288-its-late-but-my-thoughts-experience-on-wendy-beta-tree/#findComment-1790487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epireum Posted January 29, 2025 Author Share Posted January 29, 2025 12 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said: you should make it so walrus runs towards you (running from abigail), so you can just attack it Oh, you mean like pinching? Ah yeah, I did that a bunch with the skill. It was simple enough with such a long dash distance but I don't know if I like it more than the usually kiting method just yet. Need more time with it. I do know I like the Fear skill. It's really fun. I do like that the Attack At helps her get out of harms way though while still getting closer and doing damage (I remember it being quite big in comparison to her normal attacks. I don't use many mods though so I was just eyeballing it with a health mod on hover). With the MacTusk reference, I was more so testing to see if she could hunt him down with that skill. It seems she could catch up to him quickly, BUT I think the issue was, I as Wendy was slightly too far out of range, and she would stop aggroing anything until she came back quite close to me all the while getting darted on her way back even though her range to auto attack things is farther out. Sort of like a reset. I usually just chase Mactusks into a corner or I have them aggro me then pinch him between me and Abigail, and this was before the skill. I was really hoping she could chase down other creatures so I tested it with Mactusk but it seems perhaps not. If the skills were fast enough CD, I could do it like Orianna from league, with Q + E combo in relation to "Attack At" and "Escape" respectively. This isn't including the cast time of the Team Spirit skills either but it's okay either way. The skill is a good one, as is the whole branch I feel and gives some much more desired control over many Abigail in unique fun ways. 12 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said: i nowadays only carry little on my character (lantern, pigskin + grass if i need football helms, which i dont need often as wendy, marble suit and weapon if there is any boss like spiderqueen/moosegoose in spring/deerclops/bearger). This isn't anything in particular but I do think its unique what you carry in your inventory compared to mine haha. I usually carry 2 football helmets but no pigskin, and no body armor either. Any boss or mini-boss I fight I usually just try dodging rather than tanking. I do however carry a BatBat along with my Spike, so I can just heal myself if need be. Wendy has the sanity to spare xD Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163288-its-late-but-my-thoughts-experience-on-wendy-beta-tree/#findComment-1790777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmAFurrz Posted January 29, 2025 Share Posted January 29, 2025 7 hours ago, Epireum said: see if she could hunt him down with that skill. you can use vigor mortis for this 7 hours ago, Epireum said: I as Wendy was slightly too far out of range you just gotta chase walrus a bit if that ever happens (use escape on abi, walrus doesn't detect her and will walk towards you for a bit, then abi can get hits on him) 7 hours ago, Epireum said: I usually carry 2 football helmets but no pigskin, and no body armor either marble suit is broken and decently cheap, early game wendy only need wreath + nightshade (and healing potions too) and just wear armor whenever she needs to fight. mobs that swarm can not deal with abi, and for bosses like AG and nightmare WP are simple enough in a ruins rush so you can just keep the wreath on anyway (throw on vigor mortis for AG, position well for WP since if done right werepig will land right between the 2 of you) 7 hours ago, Epireum said: Any boss or mini-boss I fight I usually just try dodging rather than tanking thats a good mindset, tho sometimes i need to test someone on a boss since i still haven't figured out all bosses with abi yet. recently i had trouble with eye of terror but then realized i can just keep abi riled up and dodge the eye away from her lol (side note: god i hate many wendy players on here that complain the skill tree doesnt just make her better in every way without learning anything so this discussion is a good breath of fresh air compared to the piles of horse manure that got flung at me by the other ones on this forum) 7 hours ago, Epireum said: I do however carry a BatBat along with my Spike batbat is good if you dont want wreath+heal potion, spike could be replaced with hambat since you dont need over 50 dmg for day-to-day combat and it lasts forever til the next hambat, and hambats are the go-to weapon for bosses as well Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/163288-its-late-but-my-thoughts-experience-on-wendy-beta-tree/#findComment-1790868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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