When We Call for the Removal of Necromancy Elements from Wendy's Skill Tree, What Are We Advocating For? An Attempt to Reconstruct Wendy's Skill Tree Through the Lens of Mysticism and Spirit Communication: Thoughts and Suggestions

[Koomin]

3 hours ago, Wendyskill said:

... Of course, the designers who have ignored our voices for months must have always thought we were just looking for trouble. Otherwise, why would they release only nerf updates during our important New Year? My Chinese New Year was not happy. And the designers' repeated torture of Wendy's skill tree over these months has made me lose trust in this game. I think the designers might be right when they say, "Why not just turn off Great Depths Worm?" Yes, I choose to turn off my game. Thank you again for your serious reply. You are a very sincere person in this forum full of arrogance and prejudice. Klei, you are already on the road to self-destruction.

Hey maybe you misread the update patch?  There were more Wendy buffs than nerfs, and most of the buffs were things that players requested.

[Soul7k]

27 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Hey maybe you misread the update patch?  There were more Wendy buffs than nerfs, and most of the buffs were things that players requested.

its because they haven't figured out the new cheese the update brought

[Koomin]

Just now, Soul7k said:

its because they haven't figured out the new cheese the update brought

Even if the cheese was totally removed there were still more buffs than nerfs.  For example, Gestalt Abigail transformation restrictions were changed which was pretty big, and appears to be being straight up ignored.  There's a bunch of others too.  It's pretty baffling.  It seems like as soon as a single nerf is spotted people stop reading the update entirely and start writing an outrage post about their year being ruined.

[Wendyskill]

19 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Even if the cheese was totally removed there were still more buffs than nerfs.  For example, Gestalt Abigail transformation restrictions were changed which was pretty big, and appears to be being straight up ignored.  There's a bunch of others too.  It's pretty baffling.  It seems like as soon as a single nerf is spotted people stop reading the update entirely and start writing an outrage post about their year being ruined.

天哪，我该为条件放宽而感恩吗？就因为以前条件没这么便利，难道我就该感谢开发者放宽条件吗？Willlow的小熊伯尼的lunar和Shadow形态，这些需要转换条件吗？如果有人弄断了我的腿，然后给我一根拐杖，难道就因为现在给了我一根更好的拐杖，我就该感谢那些人吗？亲爱的，为什么我一定得是那个腿断的人？

当然不会明白。被资本主义剥削和洗脑的人就是这样。资本主义把你们的一切都夺走了，你们还感谢它给你们提供了高额保险来保障生活。但你们一开始为什么需要高额保险呢？去Rednote上看一眼吧，你们这被操纵的一切。

Oh my god, should I be grateful for the loosened conditions? Just because the conditions weren't as convenient before, does that mean I should thank the developers for making them easier? Willow's little bear Bernie's lunar and shadow forms, do these need transformation conditions? If someone broke my leg and then gave me a crutch, should I thank those people just because they now gave me a better crutch? Dear, why do I have to be the one with the broken leg?

Of course you won't understand. That's how people who are exploited and brainwashed by capitalism are. Capitalism takes everything from you, and you still thank it for providing you with high insurance to secure your life. But why did you need high insurance in the first place? Take a look at Rednote, everything you've been manipulated.

[Koomin]

5 minutes ago, Wendyskill said:

天哪，我该为条件放宽而感恩吗？就因为以前条件没这么便利，难道我就该感谢开发者放宽条件吗？

Oh my god, should I be grateful for the loosened conditions? Just because the conditions weren't as convenient before, does that mean I should thank the developers for making them easier?

Yes

[Soul7k]

14 minutes ago, Wendyskill said:

Willow's little bear Bernie's lunar and shadow forms, do these need transformation conditions?

yes lets compare someone who can unconditionally have her pet out all the time to someone who has to maintain a low enough sanity level, that even with skill points, causes shadows to constantly spawn and fight Burnie even though you are not low enough for them to attack you themselves which itself diminishes the value of the heal he can get from skills

[Chewabacca]

3 hours ago, Wendyskill said:

非常谢谢你认真得回复给我这些，非常感谢。我在遥远地球的另一端终于感受到了不同民族和文化的善意，而不是一直在论坛中感受到的漠视与偏见。真的非常你真诚得给我讲解因为文化差异带来的理解偏差。但是又过去了这么久，最近两次近乎全是nerf的更新已经让我丧失了对这个游戏的热情，设计师对玩家用心和诚恳建议的漠视让我觉得非常费解。我或许能理解Wendy技能树设计师这种被限制于单机版游戏的设计思路，但是明明Willow，薇诺娜，沃克托斯，伍迪他们的技能树能设计得那么强力和出彩，而温蒂还要在为设计师「too strong」的错误看法来付出代价。现在整个技能树对新玩法的质变是摇摇欲坠的，温蒂几乎与没有技能树时一样。我不清楚我们的设计师到底出了什么问题要在其他角色这么强力技能树之后还给温蒂设计这样保守甚至无用的一大堆技能。但我已经累了，我是游戏十年以上的玩家，我曾经非常热爱这个游戏，不然也不会写出这样篇幅的帖子。

Thank you very much for your detailed reply. I'm really grateful. At the other end of the earth, I finally felt the kindness of different nations and cultures, rather than the indifference and prejudice I've always felt on the forums. I'm really grateful for your sincere explanation of the understanding differences caused by cultural differences. But so much time has passed. The last two updates that were almost all nerfs have made me lose my enthusiasm for this game. The designers' indifference to players' sincere suggestions makes me very puzzled. I can perhaps understand the design thinking of the Wendy skill tree designer, who is limited by the single-player version of the game. But clearly, the skill trees of Willow, Winona, Wortox, and Woody can be designed so powerfully and outstandingly, while Wendy still has to pay the price for the designer's wrong view of "too strong". Now the entire skill tree's qualitative change for new gameplay is on the verge of collapse, and Wendy is almost as if she had no skill tree at all. I don't know what's wrong with our designers to design such a conservative and even useless bunch of skills for Wendy after the other characters' powerful skill trees. But I'm tired. I'm a player of over ten years. I used to love this game very much, otherwise I wouldn't have written such a long post.

中国有句古话叫「爱之深责之切」，意思是对一个事物有足够深的爱，就会有对这个事物的不好变化有更严重的责备。当然，漠视了我们几个月以来发声的设计师一定一直觉得我们是在找茬吧？不然为什么要在我们重要的新年前放上只有nerf的更新内容？我的中国新年并不快乐。而这几个月设计师对温蒂技能树的反复折磨已经让我不再信任这个游戏，我觉得设计师或许说得很对，「为什么不关掉Great Depths Worm呢？」，是的，我选择关掉我的游戏。再次谢谢您认真的回复，您是这个充满傲慢和偏见论坛里很真诚的人。Klei，你已经在自取灭亡了。

There is an old saying in China that goes, "The deeper the love, the harsher the criticism." It means that if you have a deep love for something, you will be more critical of its negative changes. Of course, the designers who have ignored our voices for months must have always thought we were just looking for trouble. Otherwise, why would they release only nerf updates during our important New Year? My Chinese New Year was not happy. And the designers' repeated torture of Wendy's skill tree over these months has made me lose trust in this game. I think the designers might be right when they say, "Why not just turn off Great Depths Worm?" Yes, I choose to turn off my game. Thank you again for your serious reply. You are a very sincere person in this forum full of arrogance and prejudice. Klei, you are already on the road to self-destruction.

I'm not exactly sure why you're replying right now to a comment I wrote half a month ago and four pages in this thread ago, but thanks, I guess.

To be very clear: I think the way a lot of Wendy players on here have been behaving, both towards the devs and towards other players, is horrendous. I just don't think that most of them being Chinese explains why they've behaved badly. I think it's more because people who spend a lot of time playing videogames and getting into arguments on the internet are notoriously bad at social interaction (I'm including myself here), coupled with the fact that most Chinese DST players use a different forum than this one, so pretty much the only Chinese people who are going to show up in this one are the ones with strong unhappy opinions. People who are satisfied or calm rarely make that much of an effort.

I also think that you're not helping your case by comparing Wendy's tree to others', because that turns it into an argument about how good those trees were. I would bet that if certain users hadn't frequently complained about Wortox's tree being better designed than Wendy's (which is subjective anyways), Wortox players would not feel so bitter about Wendy getting more updates. You can see this with how pretty much none of them seem angry about Walter's upcoming update, just sad that their own character isn't getting tweaked: because the number of Walter players who said on the forums that Wortox's tree was perfect with no room for improvement whereas ours was a pile of trash that needed to be completely redone was zero. At most, Walter players said that our skill tree was unfinished in comparison to Wortox's, which is objectively true because Walter's tree released with a few skills that only had the description "coming soon!", and so did not invite as much argument from Wortox players who had problems with the tree. Walter and Wortox players also did not tell each other that they were mentally ill or hated casual players for wanting their character to remain difficult, nor did they outright say that downsides shouldn't exist. I'm not extremely familiar with either Wendy or Wortox's current playstyles, so if a player says that X skill needs improvement I might go "sure, you probably know better than me". If that same player is extremely rude to others over minor disagreements and says that the devs outright hate Wendy/Wortox, then I know that this person is unreasonable and I shouldn't trust anything they say. I know that not all Wendy players have behaved in such a way, but enough have for people to hold grudges over.

It is literally incorrect to say that Wendy is "almost as if she has no skill tree at all": Wendy's skill tree gave her new tools (Wraith's Wreathe, Team Spirit, Grave Beautification) to work with and strengthened her existing ones (Pipspook Quest, the potion line). You can say that the tools it gave her aren't good or that it didn't strengthen the existing ones by much, and while I think I would disagree with you I wouldn't care enough to argue, but just saying that her skill tree does nothing is wrong.

I left my first comment on this post because I enjoy talking about lore and it was a welcome distraction from the endless Blessed Sisturn 3 arguments at the time, and I would prefer to continue not arguing about Wendy's gameplay. Have a good day.