When We Call for the Removal of Necromancy Elements from Wendy's Skill Tree, What Are We Advocating For? An Attempt to Reconstruct Wendy's Skill Tree Through the Lens of Mysticism and Spirit Communication: Thoughts and Suggestions

[Wendyskill]

First of all, a Happy New Year to everyone who has clicked on this post!

I’m thrilled that in this new year, during the 11th remarkable year of Don’t Starve Together (DST), we are witnessing the skill tree updates for Wendy, Wortox, and Walter. Seven years ago, when I first started playing DST, I could never have imagined how far this game would come, evolving in such an extraordinary and excellent way since its Steam Early Access launch on December 5, 2014. Many thanks to the team at Klei Entertainment for their hard work and countless brilliant ideas that have enriched the game over the years.

Over the past month, Wendy's skill tree update has sparked a significant amount of controversy. However, the test branch has already undergone three major revisions and one minor adjustment, showcasing Klei's dedication to listening to the player community and their earnest efforts in response. I noticed that Klei’s latest thoughts on Wendy's skill tree addressed the out-of-character (OOC) concerns related to mechanisms like grave relocation, the Perennial Altar, and the theme of murder. With this in mind, I decided to reconstruct Wendy's character based on the information available from the game and attempt to interpret the source of these controversies.

Here’s a video about Wendy’s backstory that I found on a Chinese video-sharing platform. I translated and dubbed it after contacting the original creator. I believe it will help players who come across this post better understand Klei’s depiction of Wendy.

• YouTube link:
• Chinese version (Bilibili): 【饥荒人物传】温蒂篇：独活于世的双生子，追忆延绵成亏欠_哔哩哔哩bilibili_饥荒联机版_游戏杂谈

Now that the video has ended, do you feel like you’ve gained a deeper understanding of Wendy? Next, let’s begin by defining and differentiating “necromancy” and “spirit communication.”

Does This Answer Help You Better Distinguish Between the Two?

I'm not sure if this answer helps you better differentiate between the two. In my view, overall, "spirit communication" emphasizes the interaction between the living and the dead, establishing an equal relationship between them. In contrast, "necromancy" focuses more on the living's exploitation of the dead or even ghosts, treating the deceased as tools to be manipulated, enslaved, or commanded, which creates an unequal relationship between the two. Additionally, in another post discussing "necromancy" and "spirit communication," I received three arguments suggesting that Wendy should possess "necromantic" elements. I will address each of these points individually below.

Post Link:

Argument 1: Selecting all of Wendy's lines related to "kill" in an attempt to prove that Wendy is cruel, thereby justifying the design of necromantic elements that disregard life.

Rebuttal: Based on the character background stories released by Klei so far, there is no evidence that Wendy exhibits any cruel behavior. This is markedly different from Willow, whose story clearly depicts her unfortunate experiences in an orphanage and acts of arson. As a young girl who lost her twin sister, I believe these cold and cruel lines are Wendy's way of emotionally shielding herself by appearing indifferent. If she were truly cruel, like Willow, I would expect her to directly kill those responsible for Abigail's death, which she does not.

Argument 2: Claiming that Wendy is not on Earth but on The Constant, where everything can be continuously resurrected. In The Constant, death itself is a minor issue because one can resurrect using items like the Amulet, making the casual use of necromantic elements that disregard life acceptable.

Rebuttal: Of course, conflating gameplay mechanics with character design is unwise. While players can certainly use the Life Giving Amulet to resurrect countless times when playing as Wendy, this does not imply that Wendy's character is designed to allow for infinite resurrection. These are two entirely separate matters.

Argument 3: Mentioning an early redesign of Wendy that involved the murder of creatures to summon Abigail.

Rebuttal: Regarding the early design, it's important to note that it wasn't truly about "murder." In the initial design of DST, Wendy couldn't summon Abigail’s Flower by killing small animals in her backpack. Instead, Abigail’s Flower had to be placed underground, and the death of nearby creatures would correctly summon Abigail. The death of these creatures did not necessarily have to be caused by Wendy; any death could trigger the summoning. Allowing active killing within the backpack to summon Abigail was a later compromise for gameplay purposes. This design was more akin to a life-for-a-life concept found in witchcraft and supernatural phenomena, emphasizing the cycle of life and death rather than "murder." As depicted in the aforementioned Wendy background video, this is a common design in witchcraft, and Wendy's use of this element does not serve as evidence of a cruel personality.

Conclusion:

I believe that necromancy, akin to the Necromancer in World of Warcraft, is more suitable for Maxwell. Maxwell's character is portrayed as someone who is arrogant and seeks control, willing to disrespect the dead to achieve his goals. His puppets are designed similarly to a Necromancer's minions. In contrast, Wendy, who has lost her loved ones, would naturally hold greater respect for the deceased. This aligns more logically with her character.

Having addressed the arguments suggesting that necromancy is suitable for Wendy, let’s move on to the main topic of this post. I have reconstructed Wendy's skill tree, completely removing all elements of "necromancy." I eliminated the aspects that felt confusing and out-of-character (OOC) and expanded the design based on Wendy’s established traits, focusing on her study of "supernatural forces," "mysticism," and "spirit communication." (Note: The following design concepts and mechanisms are entirely my own. Of course, Klei developers are welcome to take inspiration from this—it would be my honor. I trust that Klei values the thoughtful feedback from dedicated players.)

 

First, you can see that I replaced the original sun in the top-left corner and moon in the top-right corner of the spirit board with symbols representing the Shadow and Lunar factions. Did I merely switch to new symbols and orbs? Not quite. I used these symbols and orbs to depict the "new moon" and "full moon." When the Shadow faction is highlighted, the left Shadow new moon displays Shadow effects. Conversely, when the Lunar faction is highlighted, the right full moon displays Lunar effects.

As is well-known in Don’t Starve Together, the Lunar and Shadow factions are evenly matched, their power waxing and waning in opposition. During the "new moon night," Shadow forces are at their peak (for example, summoning the Shadow Pieces must occur on a new moon night). Meanwhile, during the "full moon night," Lunar forces are at their strongest. Therefore, I used the left "Shadow" to represent the "new moon" and the right "Lunar" to represent the "full moon."

The changing phases of the moon are a critical element in "mysticism" and "witchcraft." The current skill tree design already incorporates the Moon Dial, which alters Abigail’s form. I genuinely love this design, though it might not be flexible enough for unrestricted use. I believe tying Wendy to the moon aligns perfectly with her focus on "mysticism." (Honestly, I’m quite envious of Wortox’s skill tree background design featuring a balance scale. So, I mimicked this concept somewhat in Wendy’s skill tree. I think Klei could include more skill tree visuals tailored to each character’s traits in future updates.)

In my design, I heavily utilized the concept of moon phase changes. Let’s first recognize the differences between the moon phases:

 

• New Moon: The peak of Shadow power.
• Waxing Crescent to Waxing Gibbous: A period of decreasing Shadow power and growing Lunar power.
• Full Moon: The peak of Lunar power.
• Waning Gibbous to Waning Crescent: A period of decreasing Lunar power and increasing Shadow power.

Now, Abigail can gain different effects based on the moon phase:

• New Moon: Shadow power at its strongest.
• Full Moon: Lunar power at its strongest.
• Waning Moon: Moderately strong Shadow power.
• Waxing Moon: Moderately strong Lunar power.

Here are my changes to the skill tree:

 

Sisturn 1: Now, petals placed in the Sisturn will rot into Mourning Glory. Additionally, when the Sisturn is filled with petals, the time required for Abigail to fully restore her maximum health cap is reduced to half a day.
Summary: I don't understand why this concept—petals in the Sisturn rotting into Mourning Glory—seen in a mod hasn’t been officially adopted. Mourning Glory is fundamentally designed as a flower, and its in-game code even directly references it as "ghostflower."

Placing petals in the Sisturn is inherently an act of Wendy mourning her sister, aligning perfectly with her character. This design enhances the Sisturn’s significance as a tool of remembrance.

 

Sisturn 2: Now, two Lune Tree Blossoms or two Dark Petals can grant Abigail unique power boosts depending on the moon phase. During full moon and waxing phases, Lune Tree Blossoms allow Abigail to issue an "attack" command, granting her significant damage increases. During new moon and waning phases, Dark Petals enhance Abigail's "attack" command with a higher vulnerability multiplier (a modified version of the current Cursed Vexation effect, with the multiplier slightly reduced).

Additionally, placing two or more regular petals in the Sisturn will double Abigail’s health at each stage (300 → 600 → 1200). Regular petals will prioritize appearing as ground visuals around the Sisturn, while Lune Tree Blossoms and Dark Petals will appear as overlays on top of the Sisturn.
Summary: I noticed that the previous design of Lune Tree Blossoms granting Abigail a 50% damage reduction against player-tagged attacks sparked some controversy in the forums. While I agree with some criticisms that doubling Abigail's survivability is too strong—effectively doubling the impact of healing potions—the 50% player-tag reduction doesn’t always apply, such as against Rook-type monsters whose charges bypass player tags. In these cases, the survivability boost is irrelevant.

I believe directly increasing Abigail’s maximum health to 1200 is a better solution. To balance this strength, I suggest requiring two regular petals. Additionally, the Lunar Abigail and Shadow Abigail forms will each require four Lune Tree Blossoms and four Dark Petals, respectively. This ensures that transformed Abigail forms do not have overly strong survivability, preventing imbalances.

Sisturn 3: Now, when the Sisturn is filled with any type of petal, Wendy's nearby allies can benefit from Wendy’s Sanity Aura, which resists insanity. When Abigail is present, filling the Sisturn with four regular petals will cause shadow creatures spawned by Wendy’s low sanity to stop attacking her.
Summary: I moved the current Sisturn 2 effect to Sisturn 3 and added the feature of resisting shadow creatures at low sanity. This effect requires four regular petals, meaning it cannot be activated when Abigail is empowered by Lunar or Shadow energy. This gives Wendy players a small but meaningful option for dealing with shadow creatures and provides a transformative effect as the final skill in this branch.

Elixir 2: The effect of instantly restoring Abigail’s health stage has been removed. Now, the Forget-Me-Lots elixir increases Abigail’s maximum health by one stage but does not restore her current health.
Summary: The current design of the Forget-Me-Lots elixir has issues. Directly boosting Abigail’s health stage conflicts with Sisturn 1’s accelerated recovery mechanic, as these two effects can

overwrite each other. Additionally, this elixir makes Abigail’s sacrifices feel cheap. Instead of reducing the consequences of Abigail’s death, we should focus on enhancing her survivability—a fundamentally different design approach.

When Abigail disappears, Wendy loses sanity. If this sacrifice can be mitigated with an elixir at any time, it undermines the intended weight of Abigail’s death. I suggest changing the elixir to increase Abigail’s maximum health cap by one stage without restoring her health. If Abigail’s health drops below the threshold for this new stage, she would lose the extra health cap. This is similar to an earlier version of Wendy’s skill tree, where Abigail gained temporary health boosts tied to the Sisturn. The Forget-Me-Lots elixir should also stop removing the effects of other elixirs.

The new progression would be as follows:
150 → 300 → 600 → 1200 (with the Sisturn 1 boost).

Elixir 1:Now you can put in the petals，Dark Petals，Lune Tree Blossom，Mourning Glory.

Pipspook 1: Introduce the ability to summon a Pipspook by interacting with graves at night, making it more convenient for Wendy to find Pipspooks. Currently, increasing the spawn rate does not fundamentally resolve the issue of Pipspooks not refreshing.

Pipspook 2: Remove the original Pipspook 2, which increased the number of times players could search for toys, and move the existing Pipspook 3 to the Pipspook 2 slot. I believe that continuing to increase the number of toy searches makes the Pipspook gameplay more prolonged, further exacerbating the lack of interactivity in the Pipspook system.

Pipspook 3: Design the skill icon as a Planchette from a Ouija board and add a new method to obtain Mourning Glory, inspired by the spirit board skill tree. Players can summon a Pipspook during dusk and night to receive missions. The Pipspook will randomly select one of six fixed items (for example: Mourning Glory, regular petals, dark petals, Lune Tree Blossoms, Unyielding Draught, Revenant Restorative) as the required item for the mission.

Players can use the Ouija board to inspect these items to determine if they match the Pipspook’s requirements. The mission-required items refresh daily, and players can check three times a day. If the correct item is submitted, the Planchette will move to "Yes," otherwise to "No." Submitting the correct item rewards the player with 30-40 Mourning Glory, while incorrect submissions only grant 15-20 Mourning Glory.

Yes:                No:

This idea is inspired not only by the real-world use of Ouija boards for communicating with ghosts but also by an easter egg in the skill tree. When the skill tree UI is opened without any mouse interaction, Wendy communicates with Abigail.

 

I believe the method for obtaining Mourning Glory is too limited. However, this issue should be addressed within the Pipspook series itself, rather than compensating in other skill branches through mechanisms like grave growth and Sisturn growth. Other skill branches should take on different functions or only handle a portion of the responsibilities.

 →

 

Mourning Glory 1: Wendy can consume two Mourning Glories to craft The Flower of Mourning. This allows her to transform regular petals into butterflies and Lune Tree Blossoms into Moon Moths, thereby increasing the source of Lune Tree Blossoms required for the Sisturn mechanism. As Wendy and Abigail are twins, the life-symbolizing butterfly and death-symbolizing moth also metaphorically represent the two sisters separated by life and death. Additionally, The Flower of Mourning can restart the death state for Eye Bone, Star-Sky, and Friendly Fruit Fly Fruit.

I understand that "Mourning Glory" derives from "Morning Glory," but my design inspiration comes not only from the flower aspect of Mourning Glory itself but also from its appearance when it drops to the ground, which closely resembles Lotus and water lilies. Therefore, I leveraged this resemblance and changed the color from ghostly gray-green to Lotus’s pink. Lotus and water lilies both symbolize feminine strength and purity. In East Asian religious cultures such as Buddhism and Taoism, the Lotus further symbolizes the power of letting go of attachments and rebirth through nirvana, which is my wish for Wendy. I believe the desire for rebirth is beautiful, but it should exist symbolically in the art design rather than as a game mechanic related to character skills.

The Flower of Mourning: Sadness and mourning are not useless, but the body's response to loss and lack in order to better start again. ——Sadness to J

Mourning Glory 2: The Flower of Mourning can be used as a consumable directly. After use, it grants three uses of the Ghostly Elixir effect, allowing it to be used by characters as a perfume (not consumable). I understand that learning a single skill and having unlimited access to all Ghostly Elixir effects is too powerful, but the current usability of Ghostly Elixir bound to wreaths is quite poor. Besides Nightshade Nostrum, Ghostly Elixir doesn’t have strong effects. Therefore, I suggest slightly reducing the effect of Nightshade Nostrum, such as its duration.

Mourning Glory 3: Now, when a character uses The Flower of Mourning to apply the Ghostly Elixir perfume, the effect can spread to nearby friendly entities (including Abigail). Additionally, the effects can overlap with those applied directly to Abigail, similar to how the icon shows Lotus or water lilies blooming on the water's surface, with water ripples spreading outward to affect other allies. Through this design, I hope that Wendy can protect Abigail by using Spectral Cure-All in proximity to her, giving Wendy a sense of active protection. Moreover, Ghostly Elixir can simultaneously apply two effects to Abigail, which also relates to the upcoming changes to Luminous Wrath and Cursed Vexation.

I have completely redesigned the Mourning Glory line, which is the most significant aspect affected by the necromancy elements in this skill tree update. I don’t understand why there is such an insistence on the Shadow Abigail’s murder mechanism, to the extent of needing another early-level skill to facilitate better murders. This is truly unbelievable, as it pairs one mistake with another avoidable one. The conditions for triggering Shadow Abigail can be changed to be transformed by Dark Petals.

Most importantly, if the resurrection butterfly wings function is maintained, Wendy would need to carry a large number of butterfly wings to continuously resurrect and kill, thereby triggering the murder effect. This is exceedingly cruel and inhumane, a typical example of "necromancy." Butterflies symbolize beauty and vitality, making this approach excessively brutal.

 

Regarding the idea that “this is Wendy’s attempt to resurrect Abigail,” I can’t fully agree. In fact, Abigail’s permanent absence is the tragic root of Wendy’s character, a crucial part of her character design. Reducing the gravity of death simultaneously weakens the charm of Wendy’s character. If death can be concealed and reversed, Wendy, who despises death, would no longer appear as a tragic girl bearing a heavy fate but rather as a Necromancer who treats death as a means, which is problematic.

For example, Wendy’s lines when inspecting the Meat Effigy:

Similarly, the Perennial Altar, which has effects similar to Meat Effigy, has the following written on its crafting page:

This is truly too out-of-character.

As for resurrection, I suggest watching this video:

 

The act of resurrection itself is unethical because it deprives souls of their autonomy. This is a form of enslavement and confinement of souls, filled with necromantic design elements.

→

Moon Dial: After Wendy learns this skill, she can bind the Moon Dial, which displays the moon phase changes directly in the top-right corner of the screen. The moon phase for the day can be viewed at all times. During the waning moon and new moon phases, when the Lunar faction is weaker, the moon phase will be surrounded by symbols representing the Shadow faction. Conversely, during the full moon and waxing moon phases, when the Lunar faction is stronger, the moon phase will be surrounded by symbols representing the Lunar faction. This helps integrate the moon phase mechanics more effectively.

On new and full moon nights, Pipspook 3 does not need to be Yes or No

I completely redesigned the Ghostly Vengeance skill. Forgive me, but I cannot understand this kind of dark humor. I honestly cannot think of a practical scenario where this skill would be usable. Moreover, turning into a ghost after death to seek revenge still falls under the category of necromancy.

Changes to the Two Factions (Affinity) Skill Series:

Lunar Sisterhood II & Shadow Sisterhood II

All existing effects of Luminous Wrath and Cursed Vexation have been removed. The effects on Abigail have been modified so that after use, Abigail can gain the corresponding power regardless of the moon phase (similar to how Nightshade Nostrum directly grants the Dark Night effect). Existing effects that could be used simultaneously with other Ghostly Elixirs have been removed. Now, by using Mourning Glory II, characters can increase their corresponding plane defense by 10 points and the opposing faction's plane defense by 10 points.

Lunar Sisterhood III & Shadow Sisterhood III

 

Placing four Lune Tree Blossoms or Dark Petals in the Sisturn now fulfills one of the conditions to change Abigail’s form.

• Gestalt Abigail only takes effect within five days starting from the full moon. Luminous Wrath can trigger the transformation regardless of the moon phase.
• Shadow Abigail only takes effect within five days starting from the new moon. Cursed Vexation can trigger the transformation regardless of the moon phase.

Gestalt Abigail: Her sprinting attacks now add planar damage (originally the effect of Luminous Wrath).

Shadow Abigail: Abigail’s attack frequency is now doubled.

Role Assignments:

• Gestalt Abigail is positioned to primarily deal damage when facing a powerful single boss, with Wendy serving as support in the battle.
• Shadow Abigail is positioned to handle crowd fights, responsible for controlling and applying vulnerability debuffs, while Wendy focuses on main damage output, similar to Willow’s Lunar Flame and Shadow Flame.

Of course, these are just concepts and will require further adjustments based on balance considerations.

Headstone 1: Players can use a petal to decorate a tombstone. After the petal rots, it transforms into a Mourning Glory. As the petal progresses from fresh to completely rotted, up to three Flowers can grow around the tombstone.

Headstone 2: Players can now use a Dark Petal to decorate a tombstone. After the Dark Petal rots, it transforms into a Mourning Glory. Tombstones decorated with Dark Petals can have Evil Flowers grow around them, doubling the speed at which flowers grow from decorated tombstones—from over three to six flowers. Additionally, the current effect where Wendy can harvest Evil Flowers without losing Sanity has been removed. Due to the presence of Abigail’s Haunt, the production of Dark Petals is not an issue. However, the Evil Flower’s Sanity reduction functionality can be retained, allowing Wendy to create both Sanity Recovery Graveyards and Sanity Reduction Graveyards, providing other players with an auxiliary ability to control Sanity values.

 

Summary:

Another disaster site of necromancy. It’s even more severe, resembling the designs of Yorick or the Gravedigger in World of Warcraft, which feels extremely out of character for Wendy, who is just a physically small girl. I can understand that the initial design intention was to better facilitate Wendy’s communication and connection with ghosts. However, the actual implementation is really bad. I think offering flowers to the dead is very good, but moving graves with Headstones is too out of character. My idea is to add the ability to destroy Headstones to all characters, which would deduct 10 Sanity points, whereas destroying Headstones that Wendy has placed flowers on would not. Wendy can use Mourning Glory on Graves or Skeletons to obtain Possessed Mourning Glory, an item that can be planted on the ground to generate a Grave. Wendy can "build" a Headstone on a Grave rather than "create" a Headstone. This is important; small changes can greatly alleviate the Gravedigger feeling.

Some Suggestions for an Aesthetic Update of Gestalt Abigail or Shadow Abigail:

First, let's take a look at the design of Bernie:

It’s clear that Bernie uses elements that contrast Pure Brilliance and Pure Horror in its design, and I think it looks beautiful. The high-level artistry from Klei, when executed well, continues to be something I love.     

I’m not sure why Gestalt Abigail or Shadow Abigail hasn’t been designed with a similar approach.

In contrast, the current presentation of these characters looks rather lackluster. I hope this issue can be addressed in this week’s update. At the same time, I’ve thought about whether Abigail, as Wendy’s relative, should have a more humanoid design, rather than following the teddy bear theme of Bernie.

For example, we could draw inspiration from The Moonbound Collection of Wendy and The Shadow Collection of Wendy for Abigail’s clothing.

Alternatively, we could use the design of the shadow creatures to create a new look for Shadow Abigail.

But that reminds me of him

  LOL 

The aesthetic improvements suggested here are just a few thoughts. The UI in this post is also quite good, and I look forward to seeing what Klei brings to the table for players to enjoy:

 

 

So cooooool

These are some ideas and thoughts on possible aesthetic improvements.

 

That’s all the content of the post for now. Thank you for patiently reading through it. If you have any questions or suggestions about the content of the post, please feel free to leave a comment inside the post.If you like some of these ideas, please let me know in the comments too. I believe Klei would be very happy to see players express their thoughts. This is the result of nearly two weeks of work, and I hope that in the end, Klei will improve Wendy's skill tree. This means a lot to me, as Wendy is almost the biggest reason I love the game Don't Starve. I'm carrying on for Wendy's sake.

[Debruh]

18 minutes ago, Wendyskill said:

four regular petals will cause shadow creatures spawned by Wendy’s low sanity to stop attacking her

??? The bone helm effect??

Also, gestalt Abby's design is pretty cool. Shadow Abby has already been stated to be worked on if I remember correctly.

Also, flowers to butterflies and blossoms to moths is pretty inconvenient.

Currently, wings to butterflies serves the shadow branch well. If they add being able to make moths too, then it would also increase the source of lunar blossoms.

It also helps with making flowers in general.

Locking both forms behind the moon phases isn't cool in my opinion. Moon phases can be manipulated via books as well as lunar storms. So shadow Abby will suffer through that.

Making Wendy have to rely on elixirs to use the form is also not that good. The vex elixir is in short supply pre-rift. Requiring lots of green gem as well as defeating werepig to create. Which would suck in a team. And the lunar elixir is post rift only.

I think the whole butterfly death cycle thing can be just solved by

1)Make the craft a revival item that can bring back butterflies by using it on butterfly wings, much like how one would fuel an item. And include moon moths, chester, etc. Maybe players too, but that would require changing up the insight thing too.

2) The more reasonable thing, just change the flavour text from 'Wendy revives butterflies' to something like 'Wendy imbues dead butterflies' bodies with mourning glory'. You're not reviving butterflies, just making the mourning glory, or the pipspook that gave you said mourning glory, possess the butterfly's corpse. Kinda like gestalts do with mutant bosses' corpses. The pipspook is already dead, so it doesn't mind a part of it being put into a deathu cycle. And you were nice to it, too.

3) Realizing that the skill doesn't actually make a death cycle, only how you choose to use it. I can send Abby to die repeatedly via riled up mode, doesn't mean that riled up mode should be removed

[Evelo]

I'm going to be real. I'm not reading all of that. Good effort though.

[WenericMember]

Necromancy in Wendy's tree.... should absolutely be a thing what?

Wendy has always been trying to properly resurrect Abigail. It's her inspect quote for like 60% of the recent revival items.

Wickerbottom notes Wendy is "uniquely equipped" to handle ghosts upon reviving someone.

Rebirth has always been a aspect of Wendy's character.

[Giovirtual79]

I kinda wanted to post this because the more post I read, the more this is brought up. Put simply, the devs already know this doesn't really fit Wendy's character, at least certain aspects of it, and will be making changes. You can read it here.

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/162326-notes-on-wendys-skill-tree-646898-12122024/

Now, I think the main issue just comes from their design philosophy with a few of the skill trees. The biggest one, and the one I have highlighted several times, is the fact that the devs would rather use the skill trees to fix character issues rather than doing those character fixes. The main reason I feel they even made it so you could relocate graves is because of the complaints people had with Pipspooks. If you could move them, then it shouldn't be an issue gathering Mourning Glory. The same applies to the Pipspook skills, with it just making the yields greater to make doing quests actually worth it. Rather than fix the core issue with the Pipspook Quests players have, which is that they're boring and people really don't like the tedium of them, the devs chose to just make starting quests easier and gathering Mourning Glory easier to do, which is harmful. As for the revive, I'm not gonna lie, I have no idea why they even added this. They justified it by saying characters are gaining new ways to revive now, but that really only extends to Winona and Wigfrid. Everyone else really didn't get any way to revive or a way to revive others, so I don't understand why they felt giving Wendy one was a good idea.

Now, do I have a problem with the Grave location skill or the revive skill? Not really. Granted, I may not be too deep in the sauce of Don't Starve Lore or read enough quotes to really grasp it, but I do think the problem is that fine line between character aesthetic and character gameplay, which I can definitely understand. I do think they might change the grave revive to where Wendy is forced to be revived or will try to say dead, but the constant forces her back to life. Meanwhile, the other characters will get the same revive animations as they do in the beta. They may also make it so Wendy herself doesn't relocate the graves, but the Bigspooks themselves will if you pretty their graves. We just need to wait and see.

They did say they will change certain skills to fit her character more, so all we can do is wait now

[WenericMember]

49 minutes ago, Giovirtual79 said:

I kinda wanted to post this because the more post I read, the more this is brought up. Put simply, the devs already know this doesn't really fit Wendy's character, at least certain aspects of it, and will be making changes. You can read it here.

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/162326-notes-on-wendys-skill-tree-646898-12122024/

Now, I think the main issue just comes from their design philosophy with a few of the skill trees. The biggest one, and the one I have highlighted several times, is the fact that the devs would rather use the skill trees to fix character issues rather than doing those character fixes. The main reason I feel they even made it so you could relocate graves is because of the complaints people had with Pipspooks. If you could move them, then it shouldn't be an issue gathering Mourning Glory. The same applies to the Pipspook skills, with it just making the yields greater to make doing quests actually worth it. Rather than fix the core issue with the Pipspook Quests players have, which is that they're boring and people really don't like the tedium of them, the devs chose to just make starting quests easier and gathering Mourning Glory easier to do, which is harmful. As for the revive, I'm not gonna lie, I have no idea why they even added this. They justified it by saying characters are gaining new ways to revive now, but that really only extends to Winona and Wigfrid. Everyone else really didn't get any way to revive or a way to revive others, so I don't understand why they felt giving Wendy one was a good idea.

Now, do I have a problem with the Grave location skill or the revive skill? Not really. Granted, I may not be too deep in the sauce of Don't Starve Lore or read enough quotes to really grasp it, but I do think the problem is that fine line between character aesthetic and character gameplay, which I can definitely understand. I do think they might change the grave revive to where Wendy is forced to be revived or will try to say dead, but the constant forces her back to life. Meanwhile, the other characters will get the same revive animations as they do in the beta. They may also make it so Wendy herself doesn't relocate the graves, but the Bigspooks themselves will if you pretty their graves. We just need to wait and see.

They did say they will change certain skills to fit her character more, so all we can do is wait now

And wortox. and Wanda. It makes no sense that 4+ characters would have a revive as part of their kit and the one character specifically themed around death and rebirth wouldn't.

Also, Wendy's survivor skin description "I carry on for Abigail's sake."
Her Vignette "Wendy clings fiercely to the grief of her sister's death, for fear that moving on would cause her memory to fade."
Magmatic "Wendy, like Abigail, will rise from the ashes."

Wendy doesn't want to die. She just doesn't fear death. 

Finally, moving graves isn't especially inappropriate here, so there's no reason it should be changed. I get that it's frowned upon in chinese culture, but everwhere has different mourning practices, and there isn't a particular reason why a American Child from a Canadian studio should follow Chinese practices.

[viblym]

Wendy is not a spiritualist or a necromancer or any of that sort of thing just for the fun of it or out of any preconceived beliefs towards the subject. Choosing to align Wendy with a Necromancer or a Spiritualist or a Defiler of graves or anything is entirely within the players hands. Wendy does it all for her sister, she wants Abigail back and is willing to try anything to do so. I don't think it's particularly out of character for her to engage in the occult to try to bring her back- I feel like a lot of critiques about the design of her skill tree and how it correlates to her character is done out of a misunderstanding of Wendy as a character from the communities part, and not Klei writing her wrong, after all- she is their character. Wendy is remarkably morose and disturbing, while she is a child she is not some paragon of innocence, as supported by quotes like the Moonstone - "Perhaps it thirsts for a sacrifice. Where's Webber..." and Glommer - "Well aren't you a happy little fuzzball. Die.". I could go down a massive list of quotes from Wendy that are aggressive or harsh, but I feel like the glommer one especially is a pretty good example of how she can behave. Every character can dig a grave, every character can resurrect the dead, Wendy does the most out of any character to ease the dead and it's clear by the passive behavior of ghosts towards Wendy that they don't really mind her. There is no need to conflate Wendy's skill tree abilities with servitude by proxy of it being "necromancy".

The visual changes of the ouji board are interesting, the sun and moon design on them have less of a Constant forces look to them and feels more like something Wendy brought into the Constant with her. The Alter and Shadow design would be more fitting if the affinity skills were placed on those corners, but I think Wendy has had more than her fair share of cosmetic changes to her skill tree UI, and it's not really necessary.

[Giovirtual79]

2 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

And wortox. and Wanda. It makes no sense that 4+ characters would have a revive as part of their kit and the one character specifically themed around death and rebirth wouldn't.

Also, Wendy's survivor skin description "I carry on for Abigail's sake."
Her Vignette "Wendy clings fiercely to the grief of her sister's death, for fear that moving on would cause her memory to fade."
Magmatic "Wendy, like Abigail, will rise from the ashes."

Wendy doesn't want to die. She just doesn't fear death. 

Finally, moving graves isn't especially inappropriate here, so there's no reason it should be changed. I get that it's frowned upon in chinese culture, but everwhere has different mourning practices, and there isn't a particular reason why a American Child from a Canadian studio should follow Chinese practices.

I'll be real, I forgot Wortox got a skill to revive. I didn't count Wanda because her revive is not tied to a skill tree and is base kit, though. I'm more so speaking for the people who dislike these skills for thematic reasons, which I can understand. I don't personally have a problem with these skills other than not really seeing the point of Wendy's revive skill. Though, the reason I don't see a point to it is mostly because I feel giving another revive skill is a lame way to fill a skill slot.

[WenericMember]

2 minutes ago, viblym said:

Wendy is not a spiritualist or a necromancer or any of that sort of thing just for the fun of it or out of any preconceived beliefs towards the subject. Choosing to align Wendy with a Necromancer or a Spiritualist or a Defiler of graves or anything is entirely within the players hands. Wendy does it all for her sister, she wants Abigail back and is willing to try anything to do so. I don't think it's particularly out of character for her to engage in the occult to try to bring her back- I feel like a lot of critiques about the design of her skill tree and how it correlates to her character is done out of a misunderstanding of Wendy as a character from the communities part, and not Klei writing her wrong, after all- she is their character. Wendy is remarkably morose and disturbing, while she is a child she is not some paragon of innocence, as supported by quotes like the Moonstone - "Perhaps it thirsts for a sacrifice. Where's Webber..." and Glommer - "Well aren't you a happy little fuzzball. Die.". I could go down a massive list of quotes from Wendy that are aggressive or harsh, but I feel like the glommer one especially is a pretty good example of how she can behave. Every character can dig a grave, every character can resurrect the dead, Wendy does the most out of any character to ease the dead and it's clear by the passive behavior of ghosts towards Wendy that they don't really mind her.

The visual changes of the ouji board are interesting, the sun and moon design on them have less of a Constant forces look to them and feels more like something Wendy brought into the Constant with her. The Alter and Shadow design would be more fitting if the affinity skills were placed on those corners, but I think Wendy has had more than her fair share of cosmetic changes to her skill tree UI, and it's not really necessary.

Yeah, she's absolutely a very morbid character, but there's very few times where she actually follows up on the morbid comments.

[Giovirtual79]

2 minutes ago, Giovirtual79 said:

I'll be real, I forgot Wortox got a skill to revive. I didn't count Wanda because her revive is not tied to a skill tree and is base kit, though. I'm more so speaking for the people who dislike these skills for thematic reasons, which I can understand. I don't personally have a problem with these skills other than not really seeing the point of Wendy's revive skill. Though, the reason I don't see a point to it is mostly because I feel giving another revive skill is a lame way to fill a skill slot.

Also, at the end of the day, the devs have gone on record saying they think her skill tree is in a good place, so I don't think we will get that many crazy changes with her skill tree aside from maybe some aesthetic changes

[WenericMember]

Just now, Giovirtual79 said:

I'll be real, I forgot Wortox got a skill to revive. I didn't count Wanda because her revive is not tied to a skill tree and is base kit, though. I'm more so speaking for the people who dislike these skills for thematic reasons, which I can understand. I don't personally have a problem with these skills other than not really seeing the point of Wendy's revive skill. Though, the reason I don't see a point to it is mostly because I feel giving another revive skill is a lame way to fill a skill slot.

The point is that Wendy's character is focused around death & rebirth. It doesn't make sense that she would lack a revive when around 25% of the roster has it, skill tree or no.

As it stands tho I agree the revive is relatively mechanically obsolete. It needs buffs, not removal imo.

1 minute ago, Giovirtual79 said:

Also, at the end of the day, the devs have gone on record saying they think her skill tree is in a good place, so I don't think we will get that many crazy changes with her skill tree aside from maybe some aesthetic changes

Yeah, I think we get some slight buffs to the more undertuned skills (MG crafts), possibly another changes to Blessed sisturn 3, and a visual overhaul to some skills.

Personally I really hope shadow abigail looks more like nightmare werepig.

[Lee lol]

I don't think the problem is whether Wendy should have a resurrection skill, but that the current resurrection skill is a bit useless. It's basically just a skin version of the Meat Block Statue. The resurrection skills of the other characters have their own unique features and integrate well with their character design and gameplay, but Wendy's resurrection ability just looks like "We lack a new use for mourning glory, so why don't we give Wendy a resurrection skill?" And so here it is.

[Giovirtual79]

1 minute ago, Lee lol said:

I don't think the problem is whether Wendy should have a resurrection skill, but that the current resurrection skill is a bit useless. It's basically just a skin version of the Meat Block Statue. The resurrection skills of the other characters have their own unique features and integrate well with their character design and gameplay, but Wendy's resurrection ability just looks like "We lack a new use for mourning glory, so why don't we give Wendy a resurrection skill?" And so here it is.

I think my main issue with this revive is just from how boring it is, so this fits the bill. Yes, Wortox has a revive, but he can use skill points to where it works as a soul hop for teammates, allowing them to teleport towards him. Yes, Winona has a revive as well, but it's tied to her rose tinted glasses and acts as a nice bonus for her incredibly fun and versatile skill. Wigfrid has a revive, but she is the only one who can activate it and it relies on her not dying, or else the revive becomes useless. With Wendy, her skill is just a Meat Effigy, but you gain no health penalty and that's lame in my opinion.

[Lee lol]

21 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

moving graves isn't especially inappropriate here, so there's no reason it should be changed. I get that it's frowned upon in chinese culture, but everwhere has different mourning practices, and there isn't a particular reason why a American Child from a Canadian studio should follow Chinese pract

I don't think the author meant that it didn't fit in with Chinese culture, but that running around with a tombstone on her back was a bit weird for a weak little girl like Wendy. I believe that's what the developers meant in the last patch notes, where they felt that digging up the graves wasn't quite appropriate for a lady as elegant as Wendy.

[WenericMember]

2 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

I don't think the author meant that it didn't fit in with Chinese culture, but that running around with a tombstone on her back was a bit weird for a weak little girl like Wendy.

Maybe, I was thinking back on previous conversations I had about tombstones being moved, which very much about the cultural aspect. Could be wrong tho.

 

7 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

I don't think the problem is whether Wendy should have a resurrection skill, but that the current resurrection skill is a bit useless. It's basically just a skin version of the Meat Block Statue. The resurrection skills of the other characters have their own unique features and integrate well with their character design and gameplay, but Wendy's resurrection ability just looks like "We lack a new use for mourning glory, so why don't we give Wendy a resurrection skill?" And so here it is.

3 minutes ago, Giovirtual79 said:

I think my main issue with this revive is just from how boring it is, so this fits the bill. Yes, Wortox has a revive, but he can use skill points to where it works as a soul hop for teammates, allowing them to teleport towards him. Yes, Winona has a revive as well, but it's tied to her rose tinted glasses and acts as a nice bonus for her incredibly fun and versatile skill. Wigfrid has a revive, but she is the only one who can activate it and it relies on her not dying, or else the revive becomes useless. With Wendy, her skill is just a Meat Effigy, but you gain no health penalty and that's lame in my opinion.

Yeah, it really needs a significant buff.

Personally, I like the idea of being able to act as either a second chance watch or an effigy on revival, either restoring you to the point of death or taking you back to a safe space. Then increasing the cost of the altar to compensate.

[Giovirtual79]

Just now, WenericMember said:

Personally, I like the idea of being able to act as either a second chance watch or an effigy on revival, either restoring you to the point of death or taking you back to a safe space. Then increasing the cost of the altar to compensate.

It already works like a meat effigy, though. Upon use, it takes you back to where you crafted the revive and destroys it. That's really all it does. The only difference is the Wendy revive doesn't give you and hp penalty, whereas the Meat Effigy does.

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, Giovirtual79 said:

It already works like a meat effigy, though. Upon use, it takes you back to where you crafted the revive and destroys it. That's really all it does. The only difference is the Wendy revive doesn't give you and hp penalty, whereas the Meat Effigy does.

Yeah, I'm saying let it act as both and let the player choose upon revival. That way it's much more versatile than the effigy.

[Giovirtual79]

5 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Yeah, I'm saying let it act as both and let the player choose upon revival. That way it's much more versatile than the effigy.

Honestly, I do think the revive could do well if they added something else to allow it to stand out from the other revives.

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, Giovirtual79 said:

Honestly, I do think the revive could do well if they added something else to allow it to stand out from the other revives.

Hopefully beta updates this week and we get those changes.

[Yifei_]

I feel that the design of the entire Mourning Glory branch is quite bad, both in terms of the game's utility and its alignment with Wendy's character design as analyzed in the posts.

Mourning Glory I / Shadow III:
20 Mourning Glory are equivalent to one bug net, and for players with Lunar Affinity or who haven't invested in Shadow Affinity III, this branch is completely worthless. Moreover, murdering small animals in the inventory not only feels potentially disturbing but also is not a tribute to the single-player version at all. As mentioned in the posts, murdering in the inventory in the single-player version (DS) cannot summon Abigail, and murders do not need to be carried out by Wendy.

Mourning Glory II:
Some potion effects are useless, and some potions are entirely inferior to the existing ones in the game. For hunger and health, I carry food that restores health and fills hunger, so what’s the use of those healing potions? Playing as Wendy and taming beefalo yields considerable benefits, so why would I use speed potions to carry heavy objects? The moggle is quite easy to obtain in the ruins area, so why use night vision potions that become ineffective once you remove the garland? I'm not saying that their stats need adjustment, but their mechanics need to be adjusted. Or just remove this skill altogether.

Mourning Glory III:
I do not oppose adding resurrection methods for Wendy, but designing a resurrection method that is completely identical to Meat Effigy is so perfunctory... Is the purpose of this skill to give Meat Effigy a different skin? Moreover, the text description in the crafting menu, "Death is but an inconvenience," is a significant deviation from the character's design. Wendy's attitude toward death is filled with grief and attachment; calling death an "inconvenience" is a severe misunderstanding of her inner struggle. For a character who is tormented by loss, death is not just a minor "obstacle," but a profound and unshakable pain she cannot escape.

Vengeful Ghost:
Vengeful Ghost, which is inexplicable, gives me a perfunctory feeling. It is completely disconnected from Wendy's character design and other skill branches. Wendy is not a necromancer...

Headstone's First Skill:
For the first skill of Headstone, it is indeed useful. Moreover, decorating the tombstone with petals is a very thoughtful design. However, rather than having Wendy dig graves with a shovel and carry around graves everywhere (and only Wendy can do this among all characters), there must be a better way to showcase Wendy's attitude toward the deceased.

[Lee lol]

3 hours ago, Wendyskill said:

Rebuttal: Based on the character background stories released by Klei so far, there is no evidence that Wendy exhibits any cruel behavior. This is markedly different from Willow, whose story clearly depicts her unfortunate experiences in an orphanage and acts of arson. As a young girl who lost her twin sister, I believe these cold and cruel lines are Wendy's way of emotionally shielding herself by appearing indifferent. If she were truly cruel, like Willow, I would expect her to directly kill those responsible for Abigail's death, which she does not.

Honestly, I think a lot of the debate about necromancy depends on how the players view Wendy, whether she has become insensitive, indifferent to all life or even taking pleasure in murder after experiencing the death of a loved one? Personally, I don't think so, but others may not think so. It also depends on what Klei had in mind when he originally designed the character. However, design intent is not set in stone, and they can listen to players and make adjustments.

For butterfly murder, I think the biggest problem is not that it's cruel, it's that it's inconvenient; Moving a tombstone is more of a mismatch for Wendy's delicate and beautiful appearance, but it is a very practical skill.

For the other suggestions in the post, I think it's good, there are a lot of creative ideas. I love the idea of flowers rotting in the sisturn turning into mourning glory, and the rot is unsightly when it falls near the urn. The design of Sisturn2 and 3 is also very good. But the task of pipspook ...... I still feel like it's still not that interesting, and that's probably an issue with the mechanic itself. I love the gameplay changes and aesthetic design of the Mourning Glory section. My little fruit flies are always getting killed by Brightshade near the farm and I'm sad. As for the grave branch, I would like to see a change that allows us to restore the graves, because the mound of earth that has been dug up is ugly.

[Bumber64]

4 hours ago, Giovirtual79 said:

It already works like a meat effigy, though. Upon use, it takes you back to where you crafted the revive and destroys it. That's really all it does. The only difference is the Wendy revive doesn't give you and hp penalty, whereas the Meat Effigy does.

And doesn't require beard hair, which is great for a non-Wilson.

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Bumber64 said:

And doesn't require beard hair, which is great for a non-Wilson.

I never knew it didn't have a health penalty either. That's pretty good.

[Yaorin yon]

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

And doesn't require beard hair, which is great for a non-Wilson.

If an exclusive item is just a near replacement texture for another universal item, it can be called a 'good thing'. Our gaming enjoyment has probably reached a lower bottom line.

The mission of Pipspok has become very magnificent, which is truly stunning. So much so that I couldn't help but have the same meaning as some of the commentators in the previous comments: [These contents should be more inherent to the character, rather than using a skill tree that requires point allocation to solve the problems left over from the previous design]

[Bumber64]

36 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

Yes, it does not require the beard hair that can be obtained by killing splumonkey, bunnyman, and rabbit, but is limited to being crafted by Wendy, which is great for non-Wilson.

It didn't have a health penalty either ,which cost a booster shot.Even though I am not sure which of the following raw materials is very expensive:8 rot, 2 nitre,or 1 stinger ,but that's pretty good.

All of which require a visit to caves or insanity. (I also understand that Abi soloing splumonkeys doesn't make her "strong", and that Wendy is Wes against shadows. Is that correct?)

Past experience says it's the rot, due to the quantity. Nitre can be an issue due to gunpowder/Webber/Wormwood.

29 minutes ago, Yaorin yon said:

If an exclusive item is just a near replacement texture for another universal item, it can be called a 'good thing'. Our gaming enjoyment has probably reached a lower bottom line.

A cheaper version of the same thing, that comes with its own skin, is bad somehow?

Wormwood basically got his own jelly beans. Woodie got a walking cane. Seems Wendy players are just spoiled and need to complain about every little thing. You don't have to use the skill if you think it's worthless.