Walter rift skills outside of affinities?

[marshyds]

Walter is, to my knowledge, the ONLY character that has rift craftables outside of affinities.

First of all: The mimic band, which you need a mimic for... rifts.

Second: The void wrap, which needs shadow rift goobers.

Third (?): The scrappier frame, which is comparable to warbis gear in the tier you would be expected to craft it.

If you were worried about affinities locking out possibilities for skills, then a lock couldve been added that requires the basic slingshot mods skills.

The shadow side has basic thulecite frame and then a good void wrap for affinity, the lunar side has a basic scrap frame and upgrade for a celestial shard for affinity.

I hope that if Walter gets more slingshot mods (shotgun slingshot...) then the rift crafts could be shoved into the affinities.

[Mysterious box]

6 hours ago, marshyds said:

Walter is, to my knowledge, the ONLY character that has rift craftables outside of affinities.

First of all: The mimic band, which you need a mimic for... rifts.

Second: The void wrap, which needs shadow rift goobers.

Third (?): The scrappier frame, which is comparable to warbis gear in the tier you would be expected to craft it.

If you were worried about affinities locking out possibilities for skills, then a lock couldve been added that requires the basic slingshot mods skills.

The shadow side has basic thulecite frame and then a good void wrap for affinity, the lunar side has a basic scrap frame and upgrade for a celestial shard for affinity.

I hope that if Walter gets more slingshot mods (shotgun slingshot...) then the rift crafts could be shoved into the affinities.

This would not only cause so many problems but it would further cement the lunar affinity as the most worthless affinity choice of the entire cast.

6 hours ago, marshyds said:

First of all: The mimic band, which you need a mimic for... rifts.

Also this isn't a skill

[Radicaljoe]

I think it would be cool if they condensed the void cloth into the shadow affinity, would help to add more camping skills when they do release that patch.|
And the mimic band is more of a bonus kind of thing, you can still make the regular flail band day 1, and when you get to rifts, you can upgrade it.
Same for the Scrap frame, that's why they broke it into 2 segments, scrap and scrappier. One is a double damage shot, the other is infinite storage AND double damage.

[Mysterious box]

9 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

I think it would be cool if they condensed the void cloth into the shadow affinity, would help to add more camping skills when they do release that patch.|
And the mimic band is more of a bonus kind of thing, you can still make the regular flail band day 1, and when you get to rifts, you can upgrade it.
Same for the Scrap frame, that's why they broke it into 2 segments, scrap and scrappier. One is a double damage shot, the other is infinite storage AND double damage.

As I mentioned above this would kill the lunar affinity more than it already is why would they lock the fastest grip behind shadow only? Basically I just don't get why we would push removing customization from the slingshot.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

It is really odd how many rift-dependent items are on his skill tree. You'd think Void Grip and Scrappier Frames would be part of affinities, but they're separate. Still, I don't think it's a good idea to lock those behind affinities either. The solution we got is pretty inelegant, but I'd prefer it to being heavily limited by alignment choice even further.

I honestly have no idea what they're doing with a new branch of skills, and I'm worried with how little time left there is for feedback. But, honestly, if the scout skills are worthwhile, maybe the slingshot upgrade skills should just be condensed, since it would eliminate some of this post-rift weirdness without lowering access to the upgrades. There's not many skill points to work with in Walter's skill tree, unfortunately, so I'm really unsure how this is gonna work when we get an entirely new branch of skills... TBD.

[Dingle]

25 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

It is really odd how many rift-dependent items are on his skill tree. You'd think Void Grip and Scrappier Frames would be part of affinities, but they're separate. Still, I don't think it's a good idea to lock those behind affinities either. The solution we got is pretty inelegant, but I'd prefer it to being heavily limited by alignment choice even further.

I honestly have no idea what they're doing with a new branch of skills, and I'm worried with how little time left there is for feedback. But, honestly, if the scout skills are worthwhile, maybe the slingshot upgrade skills should just be condensed, since it would eliminate some of this post-rift weirdness without lowering access to the upgrades. There's not many skill points to work with in Walter's skill tree, unfortunately, so I'm really unsure how this is gonna work when we get an entirely new branch of skills... TBD.

Condensing the ammo skills down to half would make a lot of sense, regardless.

[viblym]

I wish void grip had a lunar alternative.... I'm lunar aligned! it's unsightly!

[OMEGASCRUFF]

5 hours ago, Dingle said:

Condensing the ammo skills down to half would make a lot of sense, regardless.

Sure, but I'm not sure that would get you more than 2 points to spare. Right now, from the way I see it, I have two points left after all the slingshot skills for Woby, and that's it. I don't know how the hell I'm gonna justify getting anything scout related like this. I think the skill tree needs some major rethinking about the way Insight points are spent, but I'm hoping it'll be addressed alongside the release of the scout skills. I have no idea what they're doing with Walter right now.

[marshyds]

9 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Also this isn't a skill

fair enough, but you still need the band for the upgrade, aka choosing the skill. though i admit its a weak point.

9 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This would not only cause so many problems but it would further cement the lunar affinity as the most worthless affinity choice of the entire cast.

as if changing and buffing the ammos is an impossibility

[Mysterious box]

3 hours ago, marshyds said:

as if changing and buffing the ammos is an impossibility

That's not the only problem placing the shadow grip in the shadow affinity means you have to have the shadow alignment to get Walter's fastest grip meaning they would need a new grip for the lunar affinity otherwise the gap between them widens even more.

Same with the thulecite frame locking it behind the shadow affinity means that Walter is entirely locked out of aoe effects unless he chooses the shadow alignment and no the scrappier frame isn't close to a decent compensation for aoe status effects.

Basically what your change does is make Walter require even more slingshot skills rather than less because he would need proper equivalents for what he loses.

What you've proposed is what if we took all the best slingshot skills and locked them behind the shadow affinity.

[Chewabacca]

6 hours ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Sure, but I'm not sure that would get you more than 2 points to spare. Right now, from the way I see it, I have two points left after all the slingshot skills for Woby, and that's it. I don't know how the hell I'm gonna justify getting anything scout related like this. I think the skill tree needs some major rethinking about the way Insight points are spent, but I'm hoping it'll be addressed alongside the release of the scout skills. I have no idea what they're doing with Walter right now.

I imagine most Woby/scout skills are going to mostly be selected in pubs or by players who aren't comfortable with ruins rushing, let alone the late game, yet, meaning probably no thulecite band or void wrap. If we assume that projectile pro gets merged into one skill, that's 4 points for ammo types to unlock projectile pro + projectile pro itself + 2-3 in the customizer section + 1 point for Woby's training board, leaving 6 to 7 points to spend on Woby or scout skills. So a bit tight given that Woby already has 5 skills (not including her board), but workable. I could see Klei merging support & bravery too.

[Radicaljoe]

A brightshade grip could be cool. Could have a chance to add injuring spikes to the enemy. Basically the Winona rose effect, but on the enemy instead of an aoe thing.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

11 hours ago, Chewabacca said:

I imagine most Woby/scout skills are going to mostly be selected in pubs or by players who aren't comfortable with ruins rushing, let alone the late game, yet, meaning probably no thulecite band or void wrap. If we assume that projectile pro gets merged into one skill, that's 4 points for ammo types to unlock projectile pro + projectile pro itself + 2-3 in the customizer section + 1 point for Woby's training board, leaving 6 to 7 points to spend on Woby or scout skills. So a bit tight given that Woby already has 5 skills (not including her board), but workable. I could see Klei merging support & bravery too.

No, I know. But I don't see why it should be so restrictive, either. If we hypothetically get 5 new skills with no prereqs, I'd really like the ability to get at least one or two of them without ditching the Woby branch altogether.

I think the problem is that all of the customizer skills are useful, but you're perhaps undervaluing them a bit. None of them are currently worth skipping unless you don't plan on opening rifts at all. They all offer quite a lot for Walter, whether it's functionality, QoL, or both.

I think that's why there's some pushback against this thread at all. People don't want to be locked out of their slingshot customizations based on affinity, which seems to be the assumed result of changing this unorthodox design decision, because they're all useful to have. They all work best for their own individual use cases, and those use cases never stop being relevant in long-term worlds.

Something else they could do to resolve this issue is just remove the lock on projectile pro to begin with. If I have to sacrifice some ammunition options for the sake of a couple scout skills, this doesn't bother me. I have no qualms about taking Glass and Honey Rounds only. At least it would feel like there's actually some choices to be made on his skill tree this way. I don't think there's any flexibility right now, and that lock on projectile pro is the primary culprit from my perspective.

[Chewabacca]

15 hours ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

No, I know. But I don't see why it should be so restrictive, either. If we hypothetically get 5 new skills with no prereqs, I'd really like the ability to get at least one or two of them without ditching the Woby branch altogether.

I think the problem is that all of the customizer skills are useful, but you're perhaps undervaluing them a bit. None of them are currently worth skipping unless you don't plan on opening rifts at all. They all offer quite a lot for Walter, whether it's functionality, QoL, or both.

I think that's why there's some pushback against this thread at all. People don't want to be locked out of their slingshot customizations based on affinity, which seems to be the assumed result of changing this unorthodox design decision, because they're all useful to have. They all work best for their own individual use cases, and those use cases never stop being relevant in long-term worlds.

Something else they could do to resolve this issue is just remove the lock on projectile pro to begin with. If I have to sacrifice some ammunition options for the sake of a couple scout skills, this doesn't bother me. I have no qualms about taking Glass and Honey Rounds only. At least it would feel like there's actually some choices to be made on his skill tree this way. I don't think there's any flexibility right now, and that lock on projectile pro is the primary culprit from my perspective.

It all depends on how good the new skills will be. If they're useful, then having to pick whether you want the best customizer skills or good Woby/scout skills will still be a win in my book, because that will result in meaningful choices. If they're just "quick pick" tier, we all lose.

I have mixed feelings about the lock on projectile pro. On the one hand, I don't like having to pick any duds to get it. On the other hand, the loadout I usually go with is useful enough to me that I'm not spending all 4 points just to unlock the skill, and an increase of 50% to ammo produced is a big enough deal that I get why they'd want to make you pay for it a bit. But the current situation where you have to pay two skill points even when you have it unlocked is over the line. Maybe the requirement could be decreased to 3?